Apple watches, the dark side.

[Maris]

Love my Omega and Stowa and auto Seikos. I do a lot of cycling and recently my heart rate spiked, could be a dodgy connection or dodgy Garmin reading? A new rider to our club commented and I didn’t take much notice, chatting to him today and it turns it he’s a cardiologist and says it cold be dodgy heart strap/Garmin or AF!
He recommends the new Apple watches as they record your heart rate to a pdf file on your phone.
looking at the Apple site I think I’m going over to the dark side…

[Boss13]

The data available on the AW is very good and if you have an iPhone it just works very well with it.
Have had a basic garmin before, was great but the integration with phone and watch is nowewhere near as good as it would be on the AW.
The health data, including ECG and o2, etc. also seems to work very well.
DC Rainmaker has tested accuracy of various watches vs. each other and although I read it some time back, from what I remember the AW was highly accurate in terms of heart rate; he compared it to a device with a strap.

[SydR]

The Apple Watch does a good recording of ECG, effectively Lead 1, and you get an assessment, and annotated PDF file, from your phone.

As you need to be wearing the watch on one wrist, and have a finger from the other hand on the crown, it’s not something can it easily done during an activity. You can obviously stop and carry out an ECG if you think you are experiencing symptoms.

[xxnick1975]

AW are the jewel in the Apple crown imho

So defo worth it.


That said if it means a new phone and watch, probably a bit excessive for one isolated event.

Garmin watches are great sports watch too, and my preference if you also swim

Sent from my M2101K7BNY using Tapatalk

[sprite1275]

I thought chest straps were a lot more accurate than a wrist monitor/watch

[Saint-Just]

Garmin watches are great sports watch too, and my preference if you also swim

The basic Swimming function in Exercise is a full featured thing although it shows relatively little.
Combine it with Swim.com for example, set it to retrieve the data from Exercise and you’ll have everything from number of strokes to SWOLF, heart rates, etc.
In fact I prefer it this way over using MySwimPro or Swim.com directly as the energy burnt is more consistent.

[SydR]

As a test I commuted for a week with an Apple Watch on one wrist and a Garmin Fenix 7 on the other. On the bike was a Garmin Edge 1030 and a Bryton Rider 750.

AW and Fenix were using their hands own wrist based optical HR. The 1030 was using a Polar H10 chest strap and the Bryton a forearm based Polar Verity Sense.

On comparison of the resultant files they were pretty indistinguishable, although the Verity Sense took about two or three minutes to settle before coming in line with the rest.

The latest generation of optical heart rate sensors are very good and, if it is simply HR the OP wants, then any of those will do. For the AW to produce a PDF it needs to be specifically told to do an ECG as I described above.

[xxnick1975]

The basic Swimming function in Exercise is a full featured thing although it shows relatively little.
Combine it with Swim.com for example, set it to retrieve the data from Exercise and you’ll have everything from number of strokes to SWOLF, heart rates, etc.
In fact I prefer it this way over using MySwimPro or Swim.com directly as the energy burnt is more consistent.

I'm sure, but I couldn't get the bloody touch screen to work with wet fingers, and ultimately swimming in the sea killed it!

That said, if I ever go back to an iPhone, I'd get one, and Ive just bought my teenager one so I do like AW very much

Sent from my M2101K7BNY using Tapatalk

[wileeeeeey]

Couldn't have a watch I'd need to charge daily but I do have a Garmin Fenix 6 for walks to save my phone battery.

During covid I wore it constantly as a double wrist and in the weeks after as I have a raised heart rate. Now it's back into the world for work and meetings I don't really want to take it off but I can't leave the house double wristing. Don't have it in me.

Whoop is interesting but I'm not paying a monthly fee.

[SydR]

I have the AW 7 with cellular and GPS. It will last a day with the always on display or two days if set to only turn on the display when I raise my wrist.

[M1011]

Didn't realise these could do ESG's now. Amazing tech. It does make you wonder how far it'll come over the next 5-10, perhaps we'll all be forced to accept the inevitable and move digital.

[IanK]

Couldn't have a watch I'd need to charge daily but I do have a Garmin Fenix 6 for walks to save my phone battery.

During covid I wore it constantly as a double wrist and in the weeks after as I have a raised heart rate. Now it's back into the world for work and meetings I don't really want to take it off but I can't leave the house double wristing. Don't have it in me.

Whoop is interesting but I'm not paying a monthly fee.

I’ve always used Garmin for my running/cycling needs and they are top notch. I have a Fenix 5 for running which is great for all the exercise feedback I need.

However, the weakest aspect of the Fenix is it HR recording which is very hit and miss.

I have recently added a Whoop for recording all that activity and recovery data based on HR, HR variability and sleep. I have to say it’s excellent. It’s produces accurate, usable info in a very user friendly way. It’s much better than Garmin at advising you how to manage training load. The Garmin is still on my wrist for running, and another Garmin mounted on my bike for cycling but the first thing I turn to now is the Whoop.

Subscription model is a pain but I figure it forces them to keep improving functionality. And to compare I paid just over £200 for 12 months (after discount) with the hardware thrown in and paid £480 for the Fenix which should be good for 5 years. So the Whoop is double the price at least. But in my opinion it’s worth it.

[MartynJC (UK)]

Didn't realise these could do ESG's now. Amazing tech. It does make you wonder how far it'll come over the next 5-10, perhaps we'll all be forced to accept the inevitable and move digital.

i have a Fitbit charge 5 on one wrist and wear my regular watch on the other. I like the charge 5 as it doesn’t look like a watch and I keep the display off. Also the battery lasts a week on a single charge unlike the AW which runs out so you have to charge overnight - I find the Fitbit sleep monitor very useful info.

[Maris]

I thought chest straps were a lot more accurate than a wrist monitor/watch

That’s what I thought but having two devices recording your heart rate gives you greater confidence in the readings. I’m 57 and a max effort a few weeks ago I backed off when my heart rate hit 190, same thing happened again a couple of weeks later but I didn’t back off and it hit 202 according to my Garmin chest strap. No chest pains, dizziness or blurred vision though.

[Saint-Just]

That seems crazy high in its own right, let alone for a 57 yo.

[TaketheCannoli]

My mate was recently away on his own overnight and he started to feel unwell. His AW7 gave him
an alert about his heart so he went to A&E and was diagnosed with AF. Lifesaver.

[M1011]

My mate was recently away on his own overnight and he started to feel unwell. His AW7 gave him
an alert about his heart so he went to A&E and was diagnosed with AF. Lifesaver.

Amazing stuff. I wonder how accurate the ECG readings are. The ECG kit that goes around on Ambulances is the size of a small suitcase in comparison.

I've written the health features of smartwatches off as a bit of a gimmick in the past, but some of these really sound worthwhile.

I don't think I could double wrist though... Could there be a future with one nice watch and one smart watch...? Perhaps! AW8 around the corner, will be watching closely

[Saint-Just]

Dare to double wrist. It’s the future.

[demonloop]

Another vote for AW, I'd be genuinely lost without mine, so much that better watches now only get worn on special occasions

It's such a formidable package -- takes the place of my phone / wallet / GPS running watch in one small unit

[kultschar]

I bought one last year and kind of in denial :)

Love it in the gym and for paying in shops without a wallet, notifications etc. Don’t enjoy the looks and battery life is a pain, I prefer a real watch but it’s so damn handy for the tech stuff.

[TaketheCannoli]

I have a brand new Apple Watch Series 7 Nike Edition arriving this week that I don’t need at the moment. If anyone wants it for a good price, feel free to slip into my DMs 😉

[Dave+63]

I have a brand new Apple Watch Series 7 Nike Edition arriving this week that I don’t need at the moment. If anyone wants it for a good price, feel free to slip into my DMs 😉

Worrying!

[higham5]

That’s what I thought but having two devices recording your heart rate gives you greater confidence in the readings. I’m 57 and a max effort a few weeks ago I backed off when my heart rate hit 190, same thing happened again a couple of weeks later but I didn’t back off and it hit 202 according to my Garmin chest strap. No chest pains, dizziness or blurred vision though.

I have been using chest Heart rate straps since the 90’s. I have used Polar/ Garmin and Wahoo. All three give good results 99% of the time, but all three can give you false readings. Invariably high ones.

I find at the start of a ride my current Garmin ( even with wetting the chest strap) can peak at 180/200 even whilst modest exercise. If I stop and remoisten the pads the reading drops from 180 to 90. After 10 mins or so the strap is stable. I did have issues with a clothing setup and nylon gillet , again sky high readings.

Re 202 for a 57 year old , the conventional wisdom for max hr is 220- age eg 163. This does not allow for your base fitness. Im 65 and can train upto 165/ 166. I have seen it go upto 170 at which time I decided the hill would be better walked! 202 seems dangerously high to me.

Steve

[wileeeeeey]

I’ve always used Garmin for my running/cycling needs and they are top notch. I have a Fenix 5 for running which is great for all the exercise feedback I need.

However, the weakest aspect of the Fenix is it HR recording which is very hit and miss.

I have recently added a Whoop for recording all that activity and recovery data based on HR, HR variability and sleep. I have to say it’s excellent. It’s produces accurate, usable info in a very user friendly way. It’s much better than Garmin at advising you how to manage training load. The Garmin is still on my wrist for running, and another Garmin mounted on my bike for cycling but the first thing I turn to now is the Whoop.

Subscription model is a pain but I figure it forces them to keep improving functionality. And to compare I paid just over £200 for 12 months (after discount) with the hardware thrown in and paid £480 for the Fenix which should be good for 5 years. So the Whoop is double the price at least. But in my opinion it’s worth it.

Thanks for your thoughts, Whoop is interesting and I hadn't thought about it like that. I paid £400 or so for my Fenix 6 and scratched the screen so it's probably only £100 now. Whoop could have been more economical.

A couple of people at work are testing Whoop. I think work are debating getting them for us to help us get away from the desk and put some steps in. I won't so no if they offer them out.

[IanK]

Thanks for your thoughts, Whoop is interesting and I hadn't thought about it like that. I paid £400 or so for my Fenix 6 and scratched the screen so it's probably only £100 now. Whoop could have been more economical.

A couple of people at work are testing Whoop. I think work are debating getting them for us to help us get away from the desk and put some steps in. I won't so no if they offer them out.

Definitely worth trying out. Though interestingly one thing Whoop does not do is specifically count steps. Their view on that is that it is better to measure overall exertion rather than just counting walking steps which is a pretty blunt (though occasionally useful) measurement. I think they are right on that one. Whoop also has a very comfortable and low profile wrist band with no display so its ideal for double wristing.

[geordie]

i have a Fitbit charge 5 on one wrist and wear my regular watch on the other. I like the charge 5 as it doesn’t look like a watch and I keep the display off. Also the battery lasts a week on a single charge unlike the AW which runs out so you have to charge overnight - I find the Fitbit sleep monitor very useful info.

Exactly what I do - although to be honest if Apple brought out something with a similar form factor to the fitbit I'd likely jump to that. As you say the charge looks sufficiently "non-watchy" so it doesn't look daft, and 99% of the folk out there can recognise it as a fitness tracker on one side vs watch on the other (and thus don't think you're a tit with two watches on)

[julian2002]

Long story short. My Apple Watch saved my life when it woke me up with my hr at 190+ bpm.
Eventually diagnosed with Atrial Flutter and had ablation which sorted it all out.

Would heartily recommend

[TaketheCannoli]

So many stories now like yours and mine above. There’s a brilliantly priced S7 on SC at the moment, brand new too 😉

Long story short. My Apple Watch saved my life when it woke me up with my hr at 190+ bpm.
Eventually diagnosed with Atrial Flutter and had ablation which sorted it all out.

Would heartily recommend

[wileeeeeey]

Definitely worth trying out. Though interestingly one thing Whoop does not do is specifically count steps. Their view on that is that it is better to measure overall exertion rather than just counting walking steps which is a pretty blunt (though occasionally useful) measurement. I think they are right on that one. Whoop also has a very comfortable and low profile wrist band with no display so its ideal for double wristing.

Thanks, no step tracking is a surprise but as you say they use a different measure.

Really into the blank design as double wristing with two watches is a step too far for me. A watch and a "band" though seems fine.

[Saint-Just]

Would heartily recommend

[M1011]

Long story short. My Apple Watch saved my life when it woke me up with my hr at 190+ bpm.
Eventually diagnosed with Atrial Flutter and had ablation which sorted it all out.

Would heartily recommend

Would love to hear a bit more about how this went down. You were asleep, the watch read your BPM at 190, it sets off some sort of notification (?) and then you're off to the ER? Or you saw the stats the next day and went to a doc to get checked over?

(apologies not meaning to pry into your medical history, just wondering how the watch works!)

[Boss13]

Would love to hear a bit more about how this went down. You were asleep, the watch read your BPM at 190, it sets off some sort of notification (?) and then you're off to the ER? Or you saw the stats the next day and went to a doc to get checked over?

(apologies not meaning to pry into your medical history, just wondering how the watch works!)

+1 interested to hear more of you wish to share.

Currently have been wearing AW day and night for just over a month or so. But usually it stays on the charger and only worn if go for a run or bike ride which has been not very often recently.

I have also been double writing recently when I want to wear a proper watch. Stories like yours make me want to carry on doing that.

[wileeeeeey]

Long story short. My Apple Watch saved my life when it woke me up with my hr at 190+ bpm.
Eventually diagnosed with Atrial Flutter and had ablation which sorted it all out.

Would heartily recommend

Hard the same on my Garmin Fenix 6 while loading the dishwasher.

Immediately did a covid test and was positive.

Double wristing at home and in bed but not willing to do it outdoors yet. Whoop seems interesting.

[RAJEN]

Would love to hear a bit more about how this went down. You were asleep, the watch read your BPM at 190, it sets off some sort of notification (?) and then you're off to the ER? Or you saw the stats the next day and went to a doc to get checked over?

(apologies not meaning to pry into your medical history, just wondering how the watch works!)

There are notifications for low and fast heart rates and irregular rhythm which can be turned on. It only looks for irregular rhythm randomly and not all the time. So, it can miss atrial fibrillation but if the rate is high you will still get a notification.
This is a brilliant feature of the Apple Watch and helped many round the world.

[RAJEN]

Hard the same on my Garmin Fenix 6 while loading the dishwasher.

Immediately did a covid test and was positive.

Double wristing at home and in bed but not willing to do it outdoors yet. Whoop seems interesting.

Don’t mean to pry but what exactly did the Garmin do?
Because AFAIK, while Garmin has the feature and there is an ongoing study , AF detection is not an advertised feature.

[DANH]

Dare to double wrist. It’s the future.

Got to agree with this I’m way past worrying what other people think and it really works for me. Traditional watch on the left and garmin (with blank screen) on the right to track activity

[SydR]

Hard the same on my Garmin Fenix 6 while loading the dishwasher.

Immediately did a covid test and was positive.

Double wristing at home and in bed but not willing to do it outdoors yet. Whoop seems interesting.

I went out with 4 watches on the other evening, 2 on each wrist. We were checking out the running club’s 10k route and were curious to see how different brands of watches measured it.

The two newest, Garmin EPIX 2 & COROS VERTIX 2, were (as expected) the most accurate.

[wileeeeeey]

Don’t mean to pry but what exactly did the Garmin do?
Because AFAIK, while Garmin has the feature and there is an ongoing study , AF detection is not an advertised feature.

It doesn’t have it officially but the Epix2, Fenix 7 and Venu 2 Plus all have the newer/correct sensor just the updated firmware hasn’t been released yet.

Mine is the 6 so it won’t be as good as Apple, the above or Withings which all have it.

[wileeeeeey]

I went out with 4 watches on the other evening, 2 on each wrist. We were checking out the running club’s 10k route and were curious to see home different brands of watches measured it.

The two newest, Garmin EPIX 2 & COROS VERTIX 2, were (as expected) the most accurate.

You are the TZ DC Rainmaker!

[Filterlab]

Dare to double wrist. It’s the future.

I've been thinking exactly this. The AW is superb, but I missed a mechanical, so I chop and change (AW for gym only).

In Tesco I tried to pay with my mechanical watch. It was second nature to lift my wrist and double click the side button - didn't even think about it until I realised it was the wrong watch!

I may give double wristing a go next week.

[boring_sandwich]

It is hard to better a Garmin, reliable, feature packed and a decent battery life.

https://www.johnlewis.com/garmin-ven...watch/p5122148

[SydR]

Coros Vertix 2 knocks even the Garmin Enduro out of the park when it comes to battery life.

Any of the bigger players*, Coros, Garmin, Polar & Suunto will give you a very capable and reliable watch.

As sports watches go Apple and Fitbit have their limitations and Wahoo’s first entry into the watch market is lacking in many features.

Their are other less common brands available and, in the majority of cases, their ecosystem is lacking as a result.

*companies placed in alphabetical order. No other reason.

[julian2002]

Would love to hear a bit more about how this went down. You were asleep, the watch read your BPM at 190, it sets off some sort of notification (?) and then you're off to the ER? Or you saw the stats the next day and went to a doc to get checked over?

(apologies not meaning to pry into your medical history, just wondering how the watch works!)

Wore the watch for sleep tracking. The watch detected that I wasn’t active but hr was elevated and buzzed and beeped until I woke up. Wife is a nurse so she phoned 111 and they sent the ambulance.

[Kingstepper]

I regularly have the opposite - watch detects I have an abnormally low (<43?) HR.
Put it down to me being an athlete.

[M1011]

Wore the watch for sleep tracking. The watch detected that I wasn’t active but hr was elevated and buzzed and beeped until I woke up. Wife is a nurse so she phoned 111 and they sent the ambulance.

Very cool feature and glad it helped you out.

Ideal world I'd love to see something with these health features but more of a fitbit band styling with minimal screen (or none at all). Then I could be convinced to double wrist.

[Mad14]

Very cool feature and glad it helped you out.

Ideal world I'd love to see something with these health features but more of a fitbit band styling with minimal screen (or none at all). Then I could be convinced to double wrist.

I agree with this, I would wear a nice thin band style one with a watch but I’m assuming the tech won’t fit in such a small device.


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[cman]

May as well as here, as the other thread (https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...guys-buy-yours) is pretty much dormant compared to this one!

Would like to buy my wife a braided style one, any suggestions before we go for the Apple option?

[Mj2k]

I’ve not looked back since getting an Oura ring.

No notifications, but no double wristing.

All the tracking you need without being always on SM

Think I still have some discounts if anyone is interested.


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[M1011]

Not meaning to put a downer on it because I love the ingenuity of the Oura and am 100% onboard with a screenless option, but the test results seem a tad questionable for the Oura in terms of accuracy of readings. Perhaps in time they will be able to perfect it.

Would recommend this YouTube channel for anyone pondering which health tracking device to go with. The presenter is a genuine scientist in this field and excellent for cutting through the marketing and just giving real, quantifiable testing of health tracking devices - https://www.youtube.com/c/TheQuantifiedScientist

What stood out to me in my somewhat limited research since this thread peaked my interest;

If wearing as your watch (and focusing purely on the Health/Fitness features), the Apple Watch is all around excellent and stands out from the crowd. It's not just marketing, it genuinely is totally amazing at heart rate tracking, and the only weakness is mediocre sleep tracking functionality.

If looking for something more reserved to double wrist, the Fitbit Luxe stood out to me as a solid contender. Compact, pretty inoffensive to look at and good performance across heart rate, steps and sleep tracking. It lacks the ECG functionality which is a shame, but clearly a trade off for size as it's available in larger Fitbit models. I have one arriving this week, so I guess I'll see what I make of it on wrist - free returns are thankfully available