My auction was purely buy it now. No offers were live, I had just had some messages from unscrupulous buyers wanting to buy via bank transfer outside of eBay.
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What did they charge you for then? I assumed you would just be liable for the listing fees.
I think it's only if bids have been received & you cancel it with 24 hrs or less to go.
I've been stung once but it was only for £9.00
PS
It does actually tell you that fee's may be charged when you go to cancel it.
Sent from a technical device.
Last edited by sickie; 17th July 2022 at 18:32.
Sorry for the confusion, it was listed as Buy it now. EBay charged me with final value fees, claiming this was due to selling the item outside of eBay. I appealed the fine, proved I owned the watch but they had no interest.
Their system had flagged my account due to receiving these messages from sellers who wanted to buy outside of eBay.
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Yep sent copies of the messages had them check their account. The response was essentially, “we’ve flagged your account, we believe you have sold the item”. Absolute shisters.
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Find this hard to comprehend.
Know many people who have told me they have dealt outside eBay without any consequence. If you haven’t broken their rules I don’t see how they can enforce this on you. Generally they are reasonable so perhaps you need to escalate.
Alternatively there may be some fine print which was not adhered to, which we are not seeing here. eBay certainly has plenty of fine print, I think we can all agree on that.
As I say from my experience they have been reasonable but perhaps I have been lucky. I once had a £1 offer. The item was listed for 30 days and then it auto re listed. It then sold. I didn’t obviously read the fine print which said the offer is only valid on the original listing not any subsequent relist.
When I called to query why I was charged they waived it but informed me they were right to charge.
Maybe times have changed and they are now just crooks which is what it sounds like in your example?
Just found the chat transcript I had with them here is eBay’s message.
I raised a complaint along the lines of should I not get a warning rather than jumping straight to a fee. I received a message where they shared their contact details with me and I took no further action. I still own the item and can prove it.
“Thank you for writing back to eBay Customer Service with regard to the final value fee charged in your account due to Off eBay sales.
Alexander, while I understand your point, the charge still applies. Please note that we strongly do not allow our members to exchange contact information such as phone number, email, physical address, banking information or any link while a listing is ongoing. And please understand that we are doing this because we want all transactions to happen within eBay with our objective to protect both buyers and sellers.
I would like to let you know that any transactions done outside eBay will give us less control, hence will give you less protection. And that's what we are deeply concerned about.
I perfectly understand that there are specific scenarios where the buyer might want to check the item first in person, or possibly want to discover their seller’s exact location for pick up. In this case, I just want to remind you that once the item have been paid for the item, that is the only time you can provide or ask any contact information and arrange collection of the item.”
Last edited by AmosMoses; 17th July 2022 at 22:56.
That’s a rubbish experience. This sounds a lot like <I hurt you because I love you>. It’s utter nonsense as a basis on which to fine their customers.
Having said that, if contact details were exchanged (even if it was to check the item) and then the watch was pulled, I can sort of see how eBay would get shirty. One can just as easily get the buyer to take some pictures and say the item is in the seller’s possession.
To be clear, I’m not saying that’s what you did and eBay should have just let it slide if there was doubt but it wouldn’t take a genius to circumvent their fees if they allowed people to arrange meetings in private and listings disappeared afterwards.
I’m just going through this process as a buyer for the first time. There seems to be some uncertainty about whether case backs are removed or not. Assuming they do, what do they do if that watch is oil or inert gas filled, eg Sinn?
I would actually assume the contrary (unfortunately).
Their responsibility is engaged if there was to be an issue, why would they take the “risk” of not opening a Sinn EZM with inert gas, not knowing what the movement looks like or in what condition it is?
Especially as it would be part of what I expect to be a high amount of watches going through each day, that they would rush to open/check/close.
They are not even assuming responsibility if there is a water resistance issue, as they open it but don’t guarantee it afterwards
It is this which worries me. Rushing through the process without knowledge of the manufacturers specific requirements and special features, requiring specialist equipment to allow such an inspection to be completed and the watch to be closed and re-sealed to said manufacturers specification. I guess I just need to wait and see what happens.
Yes. They process thousands of watches. They're going to have to pay out eventually for errors. That's just part of the cost of doing business.
So it comes down to a cost issue. Do they (a) spend money getting the equipment and skills needed to open, refill and reseal watches with gas or oil contents (assuming these are available to them at all), or (b) not open them and take a risk on not seeing the movement?
I think it likely that they will just take a (very small) risk on not seeing the movement in some cases. Overall costs to them will be lower that way and, in truth, they are still likely to be able to do an adequate job of authenticating the watch.
If time is a constraint then this would surely just encourage them to avoid doing unnecessary or over-complex checks.
Note that Stoll & Co. and the watchmakers they hire are not newbies. They should know as well as we do that some watches have specialist fillings and opening/sealing requirements. They aren't stupid.
Do you have a source for that?
Last edited by markrlondon; 5th September 2022 at 12:53.
I will just keep playing it safe when it comes to inert gas filled watches, and assume a non Sinn certified watchmaker will not be taking that into consideration and is likely not to have the equipment/parts for that sort of thing.
But it is only based on my perception of the problem, not any fact/evidence.
Regarding the waterproofness, I am 99% sure I read on some card attached to an authenticated eBay watch how vague they are on the waterproofing and not advertising it being controlled.
For what it is worth, this article mentions it too but then again, hard to know how much it is based on facts, might be useful contacting eBay to ensure that.
Not playing against eBay or anything, just trying to be realistic:
https://thetruthaboutwatches.com/202...tch-from-ebay/
Well mine has been 'authenticated' and is on its way to me, supposedly delivery tomorrow. That's a very quick turnaround. Will see what evidence there is of the case having been opened (Ar compromise).
Quite the can-of-worms this caseback opening - e.g. fairly sure only Sinn have the tools and know-how to refill and reseal one of their oil-filled watches.
Surely of widest concern is that ebay simply won't guarantee waterprooofness to depth-rating after opening any watch. To me that instantly devalues the watch, and instantly ensures I'll neither buy nor sell through them.
Typically for ebay, they want their cake and eat it: all the profit, negligible accountability.
They don't say that anywhere, as far as I have been able to find.
On the other hand, they don't make an explicit guarantee either, that I've been able to find.
As for oil or gas filled watches in particular, I still don't see any reasonable likelihood of a problem. It seems extraordinarily unlikely that they'd be foolish enough to open them and, as I mentioned, they realistically don't really need to open them to be able to reasonably authenticate them.
My sister bought a watch through eBay which went through the authentication process. What they didn’t pick up on was that the watch was a different model to the one she bought so was 28mm instead of the 33mm she wanted!
Ive just received a Sinn watch thats gone through this process.. it was all very quick.. I can't see any evidence to suggest the back was taken off. From what I can establish in this case.. if documents are present.. it would be a quick reference check on serials. I cant see how else they would do a 24hr turnaround.
The watch was delivered with a paper security seal around the bracelet which if broken would void return.....there was also a NFC tag to detail the authentication... it didn't reveal any of the processes used to verify authenticity.
Yes. The people employed by Stoll (eBay's subcontractor) are watchmakers. I certainly would expect them to recognise brands and models that have special opening requirements and special fillings.
Even if the individuals doing the job aren't personally familiar with every brand and every model (no one person can be, of course), I'd further expect a company like Stoll, which has been dong this for a long time now, to have a set of procedures and checklists which would allow the individual who is checking a watch to be able to see at a glance if it is a model that should not be opened.
I readily admit that the above are largely assumptions and it's up to you as to whether or not to risk it, but personally I'd happily 'risk' it.
Have used it as a buyer, would use again. It’s been running for a while now and I’ve not heard many horror stories.
No company is perfect, there will be errors. I just got a watch back from an omega manufacturer service and it came back with two hour-hands and no minute-hand. It boggles my mind how that gets done and through some sort of quality control but I guess it’s a case of being so focused on the little details, you miss the big things.
I imagine that if Stoll said a watch was genuine, you then had it serviced by Sinn and they said it wasn’t, you would have a chance to take it up with eBay.
Even if you still don’t like it, what’s the alternative? There’s always risk and this service is free.
Have used it before and think it works well. Takes a lot of the scam aspect away if you are a seller and obviously gives you confidence as a buyer.
I spoke to an eBay agent on telephone about it recently. They said there are four watchmakers employed by Stroll who between them have 100 years experience.
I can always choose to not use eBay and then have control over when my watch is opened and by who (and whether it’s pressure tested/seals checked afterwards).
I get that some appreciate the service but I don’t like that it is mandatory and completely without communicating (as I understand it) to the new owner what has been done by the watchmakers checking it.
Last edited by AdmiralNilsson; 6th September 2022 at 19:10.
It’ll void the warranty so potentially not so great for the buyer unless they’re planning on a service anyway.
In practice though, I’d rather have a watch maker remove and replace the case back than risk being sent a fake. Gives me confidence to buy and sell. I might try it out this week.
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Received my purchase today. The seller posted it Saturday. It arrived with the authenticator yesterday (Monday) AM and was dispatched by them to me the same afternoon. It arrived today. Certainly a quick turnaround. I have no concerns regarding the packaging, or the contents on arrival, but the question remains as to what exactly was done. Was the Sinn AR tech compromised by opening the case back? I might spend a little time chasing to see if I can get confirmation from Stoll & Co what was done.
I might have overlooked something, but at a glance the company seems to be in the US (Ohio). So every watch above the value threshold will have to take an American detour - is that correct? That seems mad.
No, they set up a UK branch to handle eBay's UK authentication business. They are based in Ruislip.
https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...=1#post5951159
https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...=1#post5946641
https://find-and-update.company-info...mpany/BR023769
Last edited by markrlondon; 7th September 2022 at 16:17.
Based in Ruislip.
RS STOLL & Co. UK
Rapid, Hawkers Yard Unit 21a Stonefield Way, Ruislip, HA4 0BH
Type of business - Inspection And Authentication Of High End Wrist Watches
https://find-and-update.company-info...mpany/BR023769
______
Jim.
I’ve sold through the scheme once and it turned out to be a smooth operation.
It didn’t occur to me that they would open the caseback, I assumed the check was more basic. I.e. stick it on a timegrapher (see if the beat rate is correct etc), examine the watch from the outside, check the serial number against any paperwork etc. I didn’t expect it to be particularly thorough.
If they open up the caseback within warranty then there’s a whole heap of trouble awaiting when manufacturers start voiding warranties.
Last edited by Berty234; 7th September 2022 at 17:14.
Yes. See the thread about the Tudor watch and voided Tudor warranty: https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...-Advice-please
In that case, if I remember correctly, the Tudor warranty was voided because external work had been done to the watch. But it would probably have been voided anyway if Tudor had been able to detect that the case had been opened.
So yes, in my opinion don't sell watches that are still within their manufacturer's warranty period via eBay if you don't want the warranty to be voided.
This caveat assumes that the manufacturer's warranty would in fact be voided if the watch was opened for authentication purposes with no actual work being done to it. This is of course manufacturer-specific. I suspect that not all manufacturers would necessarily be as quick to void their warranty as Tudor was. But check with the manufacturer.
Last edited by markrlondon; 7th September 2022 at 20:30.
Last edited by markrlondon; 7th September 2022 at 20:35.
Highly doubt they open the case back due to all reasons mentioned and plus it is probably a 3 min per watch inspection.
On eBay UK site they state the following. Note, no mention of movement inspection:
Multi-point inspection
Independent authenticators verify multiple inspection points, including the crown, bezel, dial, case, clasp/buckle, hands, end links, and reference number.