Or - Were originally given a double dose, now a single dose.Originally Posted by Tatters
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-...octor-12511224
Interesting exchange with Javid and doctor / nurses.
Mr James told the PA news agency he did not believe Covid-19 was causing “very significant problems” for young people, adding that his patients in the ICU had been “extremely overweight” with multiple other co-morbidities.
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Sorry, I realised it wasn’t referring to you personally, my post was indeed referring to those you were speculating about. Obviously I never made that clear.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
he also said: “"The protection that I've got from transmission is probably the equivalent to someone who is vaccinated," Mr James said.”
from that I wouldn’t assume everything he says about covid is wrong, just some.
Or 150 times the dose now merely 75 times and so on. It’s stuff like this that gives philosophy a bad reputation.
Why?
I think I spotted an opportunity in the market
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
The dose is the dose.
The dose should be the dose tested and approved! End of!
I was being sarcastic, I really hoped that was half apparent. The correct answer perhaps comes from ancient Japanese philosophy: Mu, the question you have asked is not. Usually because it is unhelpful, meaningless or misleading. Unask it as silence or nothingness would be more helpful.
Quite a lot of rather good ordinary language philosophy was picked up by later zen traditions as poorly understood koans and didn’t grasp that the earlier traditions were fiddling around with the logical limits of language. The ancient Chinese Koreans and Japanese came very close to developing a first order propositional calculus a thousand years before Russell.
Some data from Canada:
Much more here: https://www.alberta.ca/stats/covid-1...ccine-outcomes
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
But no one under the age of 50 is dying from Covid /s
Correct, except for 60-odd people in a province in Canada, nobody under 50 is dying.
Apparently.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
It’s where the word governments ship out their sick under 50’s to die.
Interesting theory.
Financed by the Gates Foundation, Banque Rothschild and George Soros, I suppose?
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Data from Seattle & King County:
https://kingcounty.gov/depts/health/...-outcomes.aspx
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
"Proper" flu is awful, I had it over Christmas in 1999, really really bad. I have covid at the moment and it isn't pleaseant but not a patch on that week. The only time in my adult life I've had a home visit from a GP, it was boxing day.
Hahahahahaha 😂
Underlying conditions ? Weight ?
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Weight is only a marginal risk factor. Being male is a much bigger risk than being overweight.
Oh, and not being vaccinated is a risk factor.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
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Lovely bit of whataboutism! Well done.
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What’s next, diabetes, high blood pressure, smokers, alcoholics, road traffic accidents, cancer or any type of risky behaviour?
You really do not contribute anything of worth here do you?
Absolute rubbish, it’s not marginal at all, apart from age, over weight is a massive factor
Worth a listen.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1463926037889396736
Yes, I think weight is a significant factor, at least after a certain point. But Stephen Nolan is not a role model to millions. Furthermore he has publicised his efforts (successful a while back) to lose weight.
What are you on about ?
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https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/...cid=mm7101a4_w
The last columns shows the adjusted odds ratio:
while:
The only risk factor that have a very strong statistical influence is age and previous infection/vaccination. You also have some medical conditions, but the overall result on your risk are marginal for most, including obesity.
Compare also: https://cmajnews.com/2021/06/25/covid-obesity-1095952/
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...089-9/fulltext
https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4130
https://evidence.nihr.ac.uk/alert/ex...vere-covid-19/
https://www.science.org/content/arti...f-theyre-young
Something like 75% of ICU patients are overweight.
The NHS have just started a campaign for people to lose weight (something that should have been done years ago). People can’t necessarily help having other medical conditions but most can do something about their weight.
Clearly understanding the situation and risks a lot more than you!
Bollocks! We have to publish our data whether it is positive or negative.
Funny how we haven’t seen this increase in the adverse event reporting or in the real world setting after 18 months and 9.5 billion doses given.
This is the danger of just reporting one persons personal view on data that can’t be peer reviewed, it is just hearsay. I don’t know how they can demonstrate a 5 year increase in heart attacks following the mRNA vaccines when we only have data for up to 2 years. That is some serious extrapolation and statistical modelling! I have reviewed many major cardiology randomised, controlled trials over the years looking at reducing ‘heart attacks’ that have run for 3 years or more with tens of thousands of patients and they would struggle to demonstrate such extrapolated risk reduction even based on excellent mortality benefits observed during the trial! So excuse me that without peer review, I will take this with a large pinch of salt!
On another topic, I am really interested in understanding why is it that you guys accept this type of hearsay and this potential modelling when you reject the actual published data and progression modelling that we have seen? Why is that, what ‘TRICK’ are you hoping to find?
Last edited by paw3001; 9th January 2022 at 10:59.
What is the percentage of the population that is classed as overweight or obesity. When you have that information then your percentage above may become meaningful!
The NHS has campaign for weight loss pretty much continuously for the last 20 years. Just because they refreshed the campaign doesn’t mean they have just started!
No one is saying that weight is not a risk factor but it is not the major risk factor that you are attempting to make it. Maybe because this condition doesn’t affect you and you are looking for reassuring information? There are so many risks and Raffe has shared some actual good data, every condition that is above 1 indicates a possible risk increase but not necessarily a statistical increased risk as Raffe also pointed out.
We also have to consider the interplay of those risks as someone will have more than one e.g. an over 65 year old black man with diabetes, with a chronic lung condition may also be overweight but I bet you that his weight will not be his driving risk factor.
So please stop trying to make COVID 19 a disease of the Obese. It isn’t.
I wasn’t trying to make it a disease of the obese. I was pointing out that obesity is more than a marginal factor (and one that most people can do something about to mitigate the risk) as you would note if you read the articles I’ve posted links to.
Edit; interesting stats
https://www.icnarc.org/DataServices/...a-00505601089b
Last edited by craig1912; 9th January 2022 at 11:17.
Of course its bollocks, you don't want to believe anything negative towards the vaccine. Just another medical professional voicing his concerns with his "tin hat" on..
If you notice he says it needs "investigating" he's not saying it's cut and dry.
Let's be honest with the reporting of good and negative data, no you don't have to report it! You simply don't have to find it...
This is why some of the biggest settlements have come from pharma such as GSK and everyone's favourite Pfizer which has a conviction sheet as long as your arm.
GB News?
Lolz
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
You don’t see the irony in a morbidly obese radio presenter stating a professional athlete who has already recovered from covid as a “ threat to health services “ ?
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75% of ICU patients are overweight? Where is that data from? Do you understand the difference between looking at a person and stating they are overweight versus clinical obesity?
The NHS will always start a campaign for people to lose weight because it makes sense. That has nothing to do with Covid risks.
Obesity is a marginal risk, it will increase your risk of severe outcome (incl death) by 30%. That is less than most other underlying medical conditions. I posted the data above, but you claim to know better? Well.
By the way, high blood pressure is a risk factor as well. Just saying.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Obesity is a risk to the person being obese. Spreading Covid is a risk to society.
In terms of risk to the health services, one is a risk of one person filling a bed. The other is a risk of exponential distribution.
What's so difficult about that?
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Marginal…just saying
Higher than obesity.
And again, we are talking clinical obesity, not people who carry two stone of fat on their ribs.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Most people who are overweight realise they are overweight, most people with high blood pressure are often unaware.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
I would be the last person to say that the Pharma Industry is whiter than white and hasn’t done some serious dodgy stuff in the past. Just like any place where there is a lot of money involved you will find some bad people but do not colour everyone how works in that industry the same. We are not.
But in fact those past behaviours have led, quite rightly, to the industry being one of the most regulated business in the World! We can’t even give a 10p pen away anymore and so yea we do have to publish all our data.
However, in that clip it was a rehash of old biases and poor reporting. It is certainly something to keep an eye on but it isn’t the great secret being kept out of the public eye and if this study is a Pharma industry sponsored study ( which we don’t know) then it will not be the researchers decision to publish or not!
You are missing the point somewhat here. Again no one is saying that obesity isn’t a risk factor. We are saying that it isn’t a single key risk factor.
Obesity is a modifiable risk factor for many diseases, diabetes, heart disease, COPD, cancer etc. It is of no surprise that obesity is a complicating factor in COVID 19
If you have read your own links you clearly see that obesity is linked with many other risk factors such as age, diabetes for example, much as I stated above.
So we are not arguing that Obesity isn’t a risk factor but only how it isn’t the leading risk factor!
Just read this below in a local newspaper, very sad but I ask who is to blame - social media for peddling misinformation or the individual for believing it?
A heartbreaking message from an unvaccinated dad-of-nine revealed how desperate he was to get the Covid jab days before he died in hospital.
The WhatsApp message sent by Stephen Doyle, from Runcorn, Cheshire, to his ex-partner Nichola while he was in hospital missing Christmas said he would be "getting the jabs" as soon as he could.
The otherwise healthy 45-year-old died in Warrington Hospital, however, from Covid complications on January 3, leaving relatives and friends "devastated", CheshireLive reports.
In a message exchange with Nichola, Stephen spoke of how upset he was that he wasn't allowed visitors over Christmas, with his ex-partner reassuring him that the family would "have another Christmas Day".
She said to him: "We will most definitely have another Xmas day when you are out, the food, presents, the lot but as long as your (sic) okay and on the mend and we will still have you here then (sic) missing Xmas is not a big deal right now.
"I'll video them opening their mains and send you loads of pics too."
In response, Stephen said: "Okay thank you, if you get a Christmas picture get one of them tight together so it will (fit) on my screen saver, give them the best day please they still deserve it.
"I am getting the jabs as soon as I can."
Following his death, his cousin Michelle Pierce, a nurse practitioner at Llandudno Hospital, spoke on behalf of the family.
She said they wanted people to realise that coronavirus was having an impact on younger, healthy people who haven’t been vaccinated – and their families too.
Michelle, 54, said: "When Stephen was in hospital he texted his former partner Nichola and said, ‘I’m getting the jabs as soon as I can’.
"He said he never wanted to go through this again. Sadly, he never got the chance to get vaccinated. It was too late for him.
"He was against the vaccination before he went in and I would say he was influenced by all the talk on social media.
"He had no underlying health conditions. He was fit and healthy."
So under 50 and not fat! How could he die then as some here have stated that people under 50 and not obese don’t die from COVID!
Sadly, some people just want to play the COVID lottery it seems!
This is people using social media to peddle cr@p. Trouble is, social media has gained ‘herd acceptance’ and those who run it seem unwilling to address some of the issues.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Sad but he wasn´t really fit and healthy, not mentally healthy at least or he´d have seen sense, not been gulled by the nonsense on ´social´media´, had his jabs like a reasonable, rational chap and still been with his family.
Looking at the pictures of the bloke in the papers, he does look older than his 45 years, mind you 9 kids would age anyone, he doesn´t look especially fit to be honest.
Last edited by Passenger; 9th January 2022 at 13:36.
So sad if people are dying needlessly.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Heartbreaking.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
2 points here, you can’t still pass on the virus when vaccinated although the data shows less than if non vaccinated.
Other point is he isn’t any risk of spreading the virus for at least the next 6-9 months due to him just recovering from covid.
So the morbidly obese chap is just talking nonsense, Djokovic isn’t any risk at all for at least the next 6-9 months.
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