Buying a boat.

[thieuster]

If they persist in their plan and you feel that you need to sponsor them: pay for (your son's) proper RYA training and pay a surveyor to check the boat's capabilities before they sail to the south. It's not the plan as such that worries me, but how naive they are and how ill-prepared when it comes to planning and prepping.

[RobDad]

My Father has done lots of boat deliveries to far flung places - but he - and my brother - both have their Yacht Masters certificates, tons of experience and have taken part in various offshore races over the years. My brother was a yacht builder too and has repaired lots of stuff whilst at sea - Fastnet races, lots of offshore scary stuff (the love of yachting beyond a gentle sail on a sunny day has passed me by). I suspect they’d advise against such an adventure without somebody who knows what they are doing on board.


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[deepreddave]

Thanks to all who have commented, much appreciated.

It's not the plan as such that worries me, but how naive they are and how ill-prepared when it comes to planning and prepping.

They are having hull and rigging surveys on a yacht now, the results of which may scupper their plans but I suspect their youthful optimism may overcome common sense. I've yet to establish the experience/qualifications of his compatriots but that is on my list!

[deepreddave]

I suspect they’d advise against such an adventure without somebody who knows what they are doing on board.

Thanks, it's someone like that whose advice I/they need.

[sish101]

I can't remember where I read it and apologies if I am paraphrasing but I seem to remember someone saying that owning a boat was akin to standing under a cold shower ripping up £20 notes.



Sent through the ether by diddling with radio waves

[thieuster]

I can't remember where I read it and apologies if I am paraphrasing but I seem to remember someone saying that owning a boat was akin to standing under a cold shower ripping up £20 notes.



Sent through the ether by diddling with radio waves

Could have been me, 'cause I know the expression. And with -this year- 55 yrs of sailing experience (I was 9 or 10 back then and I'm 65 this May) I can tell you that most people are more or less chained to their boat. Money-wise, time-wise. And then especially maintaining, repairing and upgrading during the winter time. Every item that says 'Marine grade' is 3x the price of 'normal stuff. Gaffer tape is really much more expensive in the boat store or sailing loft.

[stiglet]

I had a yacht moored in the Clyde estuary which eventually had to be treated for osmosis (among other things)

In that case it was like standing in a cold shower tearing up £100 notes

From earlier in this thread.

Notwithstanding, I went to the Kip boatshow a couple years ago with a view to re-entering the world of yacht ownership. Thankfully Mrs Stiglet talked me out of it

[GRK]

When I retired five years ago I bought a twenty five year old sailing boat, it’s kept ashore in the winter and afloat in the summer for three months in a marina on the Clyde and the other few months on a mooring further north on the west coast of Scotland.

Running costs work out at around 10% of the value of the boat every year with major upgrades and replacements on top of that. Typical major costs would be £3K to replace the running rigging every 5-10 years, £2K to upgrade the instrumentation, £500 for a new calorifier, etc, etc.

Cheap it isn’t but the upside is spending a couple of months cruising off the West Coast with friends and family and the prospect of trips further afield when circumstances allow.

Always best to gain sailing experience crewing for others before skippering your own boat, RYA courses are great for building confidence but experience of different weather and tidal conditions only comes with time and practise.

Plenty of YouTube videos to follow covering a broad range of boats and sailing locations.

Best to do lots of research and gain some experience sailing with others before jumping in a the deep end.

All the best
grant

[ralphy]

I can't remember where I read it and apologies if I am paraphrasing but I seem to remember someone saying that owning a boat was akin to standing under a cold shower ripping up £20 £50 notes.

FTFY.

But despite that, boating can provide wonderful experiences and it is an addictive hobby. I've downsized over recent years and currently own a Nordcapp Enduro 600, which suits us fine for exploring the Devon/Cornwall coastline.




She's berthed in a Plymouth marina and as I like the ability for all-year use I've got her on a floating Tetradock to avoid the annual anti-fouling faff.




Fast enough to hoon about on...




But equally at home pottering about upriver.




R

[deepreddave]

All the best
grant

Thanks for that Grant, all useful examples for my discussions with him, and thanks again to everyone.

[Saint-Just]

I did something like what your son wants to do, kind of.
First we “restored” a 21 footer to sail in Southern Brittany for the holidays just out of school and before Uni.
Then a few years later with other friends we bought a Feeling 1090 in the Caribbean to sail it back, restore and sell it.
The sailing back didn’t happen as I vetoed it once I had seen the boat myself. As the experienced skipper it was my decision. I couldn’t veto the purchase (and it still sounded like a good idea at the time) so sloop on a cargo and fly back to France…
Restoring to a half decent standard took us a year, with many Friday evenings spent driving to Brittany and back on Sunday. Not much rest in between, or social life other than with said friends.
The friend in charge of selling it was good and sold it quickly, for a small profit if you considered that our work was free, as well as most of the petrol, but we realised we got lucky as it could have been far worse. Plus we got to sail her relatively regularly, for testing or just because we needed the motivation to get it done.
A few lessons:
1) training: do not rely on what others say they can do. Make sure your son does the RYA or retain any funding. End of. If he has friends who are qualified skippers that’s great but it will not help if they are notas sober on the job as they should be. (Lesson from the first boat mentioned)
2) I have sailed a lot in the Med (mainly in the Greek islands). It’s a dangerous place, seriously. The wind names differ (mistral, tramontane in France, meltemi in Greece) but you find yourself under a lovely sunshine and force 8 winds within minutes from a gentle 2-3. They can last several days, or just a few hours. Cf Odysseus.
And that goes for summer, too.
3) budget: considering the above, things break. Some things can be repaired, some not. In any case, it’s expensive. When nothing breaks (it happens sometimes for a day or 2) you still need to berth, if only for food and diesel (there are many days with hardly any wind, too). Marinas are almost always expensive. Sometimes you’ll stay for days because of the winds mentioned above. Even the ferries stay put. And a mooring can be very scary with meltemi.

My advice: get them to restore whatever they want and sail locally first. A yacht is a tiny space and some people struggle with being under the permanent constraints of being part of a crew at sea. It’s better to discover that here than on a Greek island.

Or hire a yacht with skipper and sail the med for a week. It will be cheaper than buying and berthing the boat year round, and again they’ll both enjoy life and learn.

But the only say you’ll have will stop at the training I believe.

[deepreddave]

Or hire a yacht with skipper and sail the med for a week. It will be cheaper than buying and berthing the boat year round, and again they’ll both enjoy life and learn.

But the only say you’ll have will stop at the training I believe.

Thank you for taking the time to respond, much appreciated and I suspect it will all be useful in my upcoming chats with him.

I've suggested the hire route but I fear he may prove hard to dissuade whilst his friends are onboard, so to speak!

I think you're right about the weight of my opinion, although he wants (probably needs) my financial assistance so I can seek to impose some sensible qualifying criteria as a minimum.

[Saint-Just]

Thank you for taking the time to respond, much appreciated and I suspect it will all be useful in my upcoming chats with him.

I've suggested the hire route but I fear he may prove hard to dissuade whilst his friends are onboard, so to speak!

I think you're right about the weight of my opinion, although he wants (probably needs) my financial assistance so I can seek to impose some sensible qualifying criteria as a minimum.

Exactly. Once he is a RYA day skipper, he'll have a better understanding of what's ahead of him, and the skills to get out of trouble when all about are losing their heads (and blaming it on him). Keep in mind there are limitations to the expertise he'll gain, and there are further qualifications (3 yacht masters certificates) but the most he'll probably do is an overnight passage and it's not a legal requisite anyway.
But not only can you make it a sine qua non to any funding, you can also justify it from your point of view as a father, giving him the tools to stay safe. In other words, it's not blackmail
The rest depends a lot of the sort of lad he is and the company he keeps. Oh, and a small (even if perfectly formed) wreck with a crew of young lads is not an ideal shag pad either.

[deepreddave]

....you can also justify it from your point of view as a father, giving him the tools to stay safe. In other words, it's not blackmail

Thanks again and you're right in that I'm already having to suppress my risk averse nature to enable me to consider supporting his desire for adventure but safety, and taking all reasonable precautions, is non-negotiable.

The scope for a financial risk he'll regret is secondary, not overlooking my contribution, as I recognise his nature is such that there will be more times than I would like when he'll need to learn from his own mistakes. I'd rather not fund such occasions but the role of a supportive parent has many challenges

[Kairos]

Just reviving this thread, took the plunge and we went for an Aluminium boat instead of a Rib, Scandinavian brand which seems very well made and has attracted numerous complements on its build quality

Power boat level 2 in place but just taking things easy whilst we get our sea legs, it can be a bit nervy in a 1m swell weather changed the other day so quickly, lots to learn but think there’s going to be some fun days ahead

Also amazed how accumulating all the safety gear and bits and pieces needed adds up quite fast







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Buster are great boats. I have tested various models over the years for motorboat magazines (Sportsboat & RIB when it was about and Powerboat & RIB more recently). Normally supplied with Yamaha in this country as they had a tie up with the factory. M2 and XSR ranges were the ones we concentrated on, very similar design concept to the Silver boats. You would be surprised how capable they are of taking a sea by judicious use of the throttle, don't just keep her nailed, you aren't racing.

This was us coming in to Nome on the Bering Sea on our Bering Strait expedition.



Playing in the tide race of Ramsey Sound, known as The Bitches. This is just a 16 footer.





Learning surf helming techniques at NSRI station 16, Muizenberg, RSA. Tiller steered and wheel steered.





Your boat is far more capable than you might think.

[aa388]

He has a little sailing experience but the venture is reliant on friends with greater experience, another potential risk in my eyes but less so his youthful ones. Part of my challenge is determining how risky or unlikely his ambitions are with limited personal knowledge but I'm in no doubt that there are numerous sailing options I'd prefer to this grand scheme.

My ex father in law had a bit of offshore experience and thought it was a good idea to do charters and bought a big catamaran £89,000 in 1990, far To big to go to the Med through the French canals so decided it was a good idea to go across Biscay. He woke up with it being smashed on the rocks off Brittany and managed to just get off with a grab bag. The insurance said they wouldn’t pay because of some small print basically the wrong time of the year to cross single handed and it took him 2 years to get the courage to come back home.

Boat’s and Aircraft are a sure way of emptying your bank quickly. Good luck with his venture though.


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[china]

We've rented the same sailing boat every summer for 6 or 7 years. I know the guys who own the boat and a few years ago they offered for me to buy the boat. I kindly declined.

It's a lovely hobby, one of the best ways to enjoy the summer and the amazing archipelago we have here, but I'm always so happy to return the boat with no worries and just walk off.

[andyb28]

Well, I have lots of experience of this.
Living next to the Sea, I have had many different boats and Jetskis. Throughout my Twenties and Thirties, my friends and I were Wakeboarders, so we had Ski Boats, mainly Mastercraft and Ski Nautique. That died for us as we all got a bit too old and easily injured. So after a big break from boats, I decided I might like to learn how to Sail.

Initially I purchased a Mirror, but it was a bit too small. So I sold it and got this Gull. The Gull was a very nice boat to learn on, its forgiving and you dont have to hang off the side of it.



Having learnt the basics, I was ready for my first bigger boat. I had dreams of Family trips on board.
So we purchased a Hunter Legend 290.

The first time I took my wife on it, she freaked out about the boat heeling over. It wasn't a particularly big angle. But that was it, she said never again.
My dreams were crushed :(



I then had a brilliant idea, sell the Hunter 290 and get a Motor boat, they dont lean over and it's just like a bigger version of the Ski boats I used to have. So I purchased this Sealine S28.
Wife and kids were happier with it, but turns out my family just are not into boats in the same way I am.



Sold the S28 for a nice profit in the pandemic as everyone seemed to go boat mad.

I now have this Hunter Pilot, which is a bit smaller and easier to manage on my own. It has a self tacking jib, so is super easy to sail. I have had some lovely day sailing with it this year, but not completed any trips away yet. The boat is still in the water in the marina and I am picking sailing days carefully through the winter. This year is going to be about adventures and I hope to do a few weekends visiting other East Coast places.

[LRB255]

[QUOTE=Kairos;6142001]Buster are great boats. I have tested various models over the years for motorboat magazines (Sportsboat & RIB when it was about and Powerboat & RIB more recently). Normally supplied with Yamaha in this country as they had a tie up with the factory. M2 and XSR ranges were the ones we concentrated on, very similar design concept to the Silver boats. You would be surprised how capable they are of taking a sea by judicious use of the throttle, don't just keep her nailed, you aren't racing.

This was us coming in to Nome on the Bering Sea on our Bering Strait expedition.



Thanks. We had some good times this Summer gone, great learning curve. Luckily we met a guy on our site who was a part time RLNI. We sailed a good few times and his knowledge has been invaluable

Looking forwards to the coming year :)

PS: Had lots of positive comments on the Alu boat out on the water. Was a bit concerned initially I'd made the wrong choice of boat (Rib) but super glad we took the plunge with Aluminium

[thieuster]

Great pics of the boats handling the waves ('Muizenberg' is Dutch btw, it means Mouse Mountain).

With a lot of training, it all looks so easy. But it isn't. You can tell when someone steering a RIB or Alu boat sends the boat downwind with medium/big waves. The difference between a good, skilled or well-trained skipper and a bad one is very easy to spot. To put it simple: the good skipper hardly uses fuel and keep the inside of the boat dry.

Check the 'Haulover Inlet' videos on YT for tons of footage how it should/should not be done.