Reply With QuoteThe government could start by making tax advantages for EVs available to all, not just the employed.Originally Posted by gunner
Agreed - it is a sad reflection that posters like walkerwek1958 can come out with the "I am alright jack attitude" and basically not give a toss. No thought for the younger generation. It says a lot about their character - not in a good way.
The government could start by making tax advantages for EVs available to all, not just the employed.
[QUOTE=Kingstepper;6307014]The government could start by making tax advantages for EVs available to all, not just the employed.[/QUOTE
Can’t see that happening anytime soon.
I've been in North West Spain for 1 week and not seen a single EV or even a single charge point. Talking to a local here about it and the issue is that most people live in flats and have nowhere to charge. EVs are very much not a viable option yet.
Probably because they do not have salary sacrifice in Spain with the ability to offset up to 62% of income tax and NI against the backdrop of a 2% Benefit in Kind.
Only reason I (and many others) drive an EV is that the UK Government have handsomely bribed me to do so.
And haven't you f***ing told us enough times, without referencing your 6 figure salary that does begin with a 1
Go on, tell me about your 'leccy deal' one more time....
Whether I care or not about the fate of the planet doesn’t matter, nothing I can say or do will make any difference. As for judging my character, do you really think you are in a position to do that based on a post I’ve made that clearly has upset you?
If you wish to continue the debate don’t hesitate to get in touch, I’ll give you every opportunity to judge my character. I don’t mind anyone disagreeing with a point, but I don’t think the insult regarding character shortcomings is justified.......do you?
A good point. Most of the virtue signalling electric car owners are what I term the benefit in kind bozos, they don’t pay for their own cars and they take whichever deal suits their pocket. I understand that, I’d do the same, but spare us the sanctimonious holier than thou bullshit.
Cut the crap and admit to parochial self- interest.
This Bozo has
Wow, thats rather sweeping. Id expect given similar circumstances if you were in business youd be dong the same.
The point I’m trying to make is that most people don’t give a shit about the environmental aspects, they choose to run EVs because it benefits them financially.
A sweeping statement. My wife has an electric car which she bought privately without any Government incentive. She just prefers the way they drive.
In fairness, he already has said so...
I wouldn't disagree with that either
Yet we’re all bozos for doing so.
Hell will freeze over before I buy an EV. I drive around 3000 miles/year plus a few hundred in my MGB. If I was doing 17k/ year as once did I might view things differently.
The funny radiator grilles actually look as smug as the owners, a bit like dogs and owners having a visual resemblance. Ne t time you see a Tesla have a look, you’ll see what I mean!
Bit off topic question but I was looking at a plug-in hybrid today which only has about 30mile battery range but states 100mpg. Presumably if you take a long trip then the battery will drain and afterwards you will basically achieve the petrol only equivalent mpg of say 34mpg?
Adding to walkerwek’s comment I did read a report which said that when plug-in hybrids were the company car of choice because of tax incentives, hardly anyone bothered to charge their cars and just continued to drive an ICE vehicle
Last edited by Suds; 17th November 2023 at 00:18.
Where the tax incentives not made more attractive to encourage the un-encourageable ?
Financial incentives have a tendency to drive peverse consequences… it’s all about da munny innit
What a fantastic function the ignore button is, and by my best guess, it wasn’t a pleasantry!
IN SPACE NO ONE CAN HEAR YOU SCREAM.
Bru-hahahaha.
You can't fix the problem on your own but you can choose to be part of the solution rather than part of the problem.
But we all know you press on REVEAL!What a fantastic function the ignore button is, and by my best guess, it wasn’t a pleasantry!
IN SPACE NO ONE CAN HEAR YOU SCREAM.
Bru-hahahaha.
It can’t be any less off topic than the interventions from our resident Statler & Waldorf types!
Yes, you’re correct, think of a plug-in hybrid battery as like a ‘fuel multiplier’ it does the heavy lifting when an engine is consuming the most fuel meaning on shorter trips you use less fuel or even none if it’s within the battery only range.
On longer trips, you’re effectively using it as a petrol only car, albeit the car will regenerate the battery charge where appropriate so you’ll still see some benefit, a bit like the non plug-in mild hybrids that are common now. Using the engine in ‘recharge mode’ where it has one will crash the fuel economy though.
When I ran a Golf GTE, my short trips used zero fuel, my longer ones were slightly better mpg wise than you’d expect a 200bhp petrol hatchback to achieve.
We see EV's daily now on the school run into Cartagena and there's a handful of charging points dotted about the place and a few more in the surrounds...appears viable for some hereabouts...some flats do come with parking spaces in the basement of the builds, newer mostly... or folks hire/ buy one in proximity, finances permitting. Perhaps no surprise the place is not homogenous.
Probably less wealth in Galicia. You often see Renaults and Fords from the mid-nineties used as dailies.
Maybe so...I'm not claiming we're awash here with EV's...theres' plenty of older Peugeots and Renaults about...though it's interesting how many folks on average Spanish wages, do seem to like a new car, given some of the comments about how impoverished they all are cf Brits, which emanate from a particular quarter.
I do regularly. To me the ignore function is the marker for people I have no desire to deal with. Very convenient when browsing SC for example. I sometimes still read their posts, answer them even.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
But for all we know WW's part of the solution, whether intentionally or not... I kinda doubt he's taking half a dozen or more long haul flights a year or consuming endless amounts of Chinese made crap that end up in land fill weeks or days later, IF I had to I'd guess he likely puts his glass and cardboard in the right bins...He just doesn't particularly rate EV's if I've understood correctly and has pointed out it's the free ''MUNNNY'' in tax break form, that drives sales in plausibly the majority of cases...
There are loads of tax breaks/arrangements that business has access to that I don’t as a PAYE employee, so not sure it’s any more or less relevant with regard to provision of company cars than anything else.
Your property portfolio probably benefits from some of them as well, I’m sure.
Whatever the reason that somebody is driving an EV, collectively we should be pleased that they are as there is an air quality and reduced CO2 benefit to us all (whether anybody cares about it or not) and also because it impacts everybody else negatively to the sum of zero.
It doesn’t impact everybody else to the sum of zero because they are effectively paying for paye employees to drive around in cheap EVs.
Welcome to society, we all pay for things that benefit others more than ourselves.
Employees are still paying BIK for EVs, just at a rate lower than an ICE vehicle, the company is still buying or leasing them, not you.
Lol I think the days of tax breaks/arrangements for small scale property portfolio owners are long gone...
''never let the tax tail wag the investment dog''
Doesn't make your argument (sum zero...) correct.
The Government and hence all taxpayers are subsidising EVs.
I guess people use the ignore function in different ways. Mine is because I have a public nuisance chasing me around multiple threads, always trying do his best to belittle.
Just got fed up with it. Don't need that sh1t and the ignore function has worked a treat. They shouldn't flatter themselves if they think I am reading the posts in a clandestine way. For me, ignore means ignore. They disappear in plain sight, and I get my own way.
This is the intersphere. Random blokes chin-wagging about nothing of consequence. Don't take ignore as a personal insult to double-down as a nuisance. Just move on.
Anyway, back to EVs. My first time in winter with an EV, and I guess this is the time when range is going to go south.
They are no more subsidising EVs than they are any other company vehicles, employees are still paying BIK tax on them, the same as they do on company ICE vehicles, and company’s are still buying or leasing them, and not you.
Diesel BIK is higher than petrol, are you subsidising petrol cars as a result?
I still don’t see how ‘Gareth from accounts’ choosing an EV over an ICE equivalent impacts you directly by even a penny.
Last edited by Tooks; 17th November 2023 at 12:11.
Not true; the government choose to take less tax from EV users, no one is subsiding them. It’s just that non EV drivers are putting more tax revenue into the government coffers than EV drivers (currently).
At the end of the day, everyone who pays tax is subsidising everyone that doesn’t, just to a larger or smaller degree.
I understand that BIK tax for EVs is far lower than that for ICEs - doesn't this mean less revenue for the Government?
Therefore other revenue from elsewhere, including myself, thus not zero sum.
Last edited by Kingstepper; 17th November 2023 at 12:19.
On BIK yes, but they’re still raising revenue on the back of it, just less than they could. They are always fiddling with the BIK take, it’s already at 2%, from 1% and will no doubt ratchet up as more cars switch to electric propulsion over time. EVs are more expensive to buy or lease, more tax ultimately for the revenue.
That’s what HMRC does, it carrot and sticks its way to implementing government policy.
It’s the same as when companies claim back significant capital investment via the tax system, to the tune of 100% at the moment, you have no say in it, and ultimately it doesn’t cost you a penny directly.
You’re choosing to die on the EV hill because for some reason you don’t like them.
Government spends or chooses to tax less all kinds of things that I don’t use or agree with, but to say I’m subsidising it because I don’t believe I directly benefit is silly.
Your arguments are just noise deflecting your claim.
At the end of the day it costs society and hence me.
I'm not against EVs BTW, have been looking at possibility for my next car. Just a pity I can't get a Taycan for £400/month like you boys can.
Well, you’d do well to check your facts there, I can’t get a ‘£400 per month Taycan’ either, as I don’t own my own company and where I work I don’t have the option of a company car either.
My claim is simple, EVs brought and paid for by companies and driven by their taxed employees haven’t cost you a penny, the deflection and obfuscation is all yours with this idea that if they were ICE vehicles somehow you’d be paying less tax.
Christ, if I could find a Taycan for £400 pcm I’d have 2.
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Thought I saw this mentioned in another thread.
Edit, Here you go: -
Last edited by Kingstepper; 17th November 2023 at 14:25.
Admitedly the Taycan comment was flippant but the rest isn't obfustcation at all.
In fact it's all yours (argument that we all pay for things we don't use etc.) Your sum zero argument is plain wrong.
I think it depends on how you look at this; if HMG requires a specific amount of tax take in its budget, should you grant a form of relief e.g. 100% capital allowance or 2% BIK then to balance the budget requires additional tax take from another area. Whether this impacts everyone is a different matter.
I think what is clear are the reliefs are pump priming to get people into EV's initially. At what point these will be pulled back is anyone's guess.
The use of the tax system to drive behaviour is very common by governments of any persuasion - a simple example is the ISA
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For some reason you’ve tried to link my comment “because it impacts everybody else negatively to the sum of zero” to only company vehicles, Taycan’s and those who buy vehicles via their business.
I don’t, I pay for my own vehicle from my own taxed income, and it costs you not one penny.
Nor does it cost you a penny when a company does so.
You’re desperately trying to link government tax policy to you somehow subsidising EVs, and you’re not.
No more than you’re subsidising people or UK business with Hunt’s considered inheritance and business tax cuts in next weeks budget.
Autumn Statement: Jeremy Hunt considering cuts to inheritance tax https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67448602
The only way anybody is getting a £400pcm Taycan is via salary sacrifice and if they’re earning over £125k a year, and even then they’ll be having to hand it back. The lease company will still be paying tax on the profit though.
Exactly, it’s how it works, but it’s a stretch to call government tax policy a subsidy just because EV company car drivers pay less BIK than the petrol driving colleague who themselves pay less than their diesel driving colleague. They’re trying to derive a benefit for everybody by cleaning up the nations vehicle fleet.
It’s just another slant on the anti-EV argument, when actually variation in taxation to drive a behaviour is perfectly normal, and never called a subsidy unless it’s to try and prop up said argument.
The government subsidises all sorts of industries it thinks makes sense to.
The original purchaser of my car (Tesla Model S) got a 5k subsidy and I got a discount off my charge point.
I wasn't saying you were wrong seeing it on here at £400 pcm just that as a business i cant get anywhere near those figures. Best I've seen is just over £800 a month and thats with 12 months down and 5000 miles a year mileage.
To put it into context, my comment was in respect to those people who can get the Taycan on a salary sacrifice scheme and are paying tax at the 60% rate; they are still paying a grand a month for the car but the reduction in take home pay is only £400.
I don’t believe that there is a lease deal at £400pcm as thst would just be mental.
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