Will Paula Venells ever be held accountable?

[PickleB]

Post Office Inquiry Phase 5 and 6 Timetable...among others, the following will be giving evidence:

	Angela van den Bogerd	Th 25 and Fr 26 April
	Paula Vennells	We 22, Th 23 and Fr 24 April
	Gareth Jenkins	Tu 25 to Fr 28 June

[BillyCasper]

Post Office Inquiry Phase 5 and 6 Timetable...among others, the following will be giving evidence:

	Angela van den Bogerd	Th 25 and Fr 26 April
	Paula Vennells	We 22, Th 23 and Fr 24 April
	Gareth Jenkins	Tu 25 to Fr 28 June

I have my eye on those. I’d also add Susan Crichton.

It will be round two for Rod Ismay and Jarnail Singh. Can’t wait for the victims’ lawyers to get their chance. Rod and Jarnail are the half-wit jesters in this tragedy.

It will also be interesting to see how obfuscating politicians: McFadden, Swinson, Cable, Davey stand up against the precise, economical, incisive questioning of the very good inquiry lawyers. Their intolerance to BS is clear to see.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[blackal]

Whadya know…………………



Covert recordings prove Post Office covered up scandal for years

[PickleB]

Whadya know…………………

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFvE2Bk9GSo

Covert recordings prove Post Office covered up scandal for years

The final line of that report sums it up. Let's hope that they are held to account in law.


ICYMI...19h00 Ch4 News We 27 Mar and their webpage.

The news broadcast bookends what is in the YouTube video with other material. At the end this is an exchange with Liam Byrne, Chair of the Hoc Business and Trade Committee, as to how he sees this evidence and what might now happen.

[PickleB]

From the clarity of his voice in the recordings discussed above, I'm guessing that Ron Warmington has taken some advice about his legal liability for sharing his recordings.

[adrianw]

And still no one gets arrested

[number2]

And still no one gets arrested

Won't it be a case of "lessons have been learnt"...

[Passenger]

Won't it be a case of "lessons have been learnt"...

That is the way.

[adrianw]

Won't it be a case of "lessons have been learnt"...

If your "one of them" for the rest of us it's prison

[Passenger]

If your "one of them" for the rest of us it's prison

Also the way.

[Stanford]

Whadya know…………………



Covert recordings prove Post Office covered up scandal for years

It just gets more sickening with each new bit of evidence that comes to light.

[Templogin]

It has to be prison, and I am not talking about a cushy open prison. Anything less is just mockery.

[snowman]

It has to be prison, and I am not talking about a cushy open prison. Anything less is just mockery.

There seems no excuse for not prosecuting the Post Office and Fuitsu directors for perversion of justice.

Presumably too many current politicians are implicated or this would have been sorted out years ago.

M

[PickleB]

More evidence...papers reveal PO knew its court defence was false:

A draft report uncovered by the BBC shows the Post Office spent £100m fighting sub-postmasters in court despite knowing its defence was untrue.

The document reveals the Post Office was shown evidence by 2017 that losses could be due to errors in the Horizon IT system or remote tampering.

...

The draft report, titled Bramble, was commissioned by the Post Office in March 2016 and carried out by consultants Deloitte.

Throughout the draft report, Deloitte refers to having already discussed its findings with "Post Office management" and even the fact that some of these were shared with the Post Office's investigators for further analysis.

Tim Parker, the Post Office's chairman at the time of the draft report, also told the BBC via his legal representative that Post Office lawyers liaised with Deloitte about Project Bramble and were responsible for handling, distributing and disclosing it. He added that the Post Office's lawyers were also involved in the "strategy and day to day management of the litigation".

This raises questions as to whether Post Office lawyers met their responsibilities to not mislead the court...

[adrianw]

And still they will get away with it

[Passenger]

And still they will get away with it

Mind blowing...I just heard on ch4 news, the Met's only managed 2 interviews to date, why haven't they given Vennell's a tug yet for a chat, not remotely corrupt, money talks...hahahaha oh dear.

[PickleB]

Mind blowing...I just heard on ch4 news, the Met's only managed 2 interviews to date, why haven't they given Vennell's a tug yet for a chat, not remotely corrupt, money talks...hahahaha oh dear.

[Chris_in_the_UK]

Sadly, it's going to be a long game (and no, I do not consider it a game). Cover ups, aggressive pursuit with little/no evidence etc., etc..........

[TheFlyingBanana]

The more that comes out, the more staggering it is.

I’m finding it genuinely impossible to get my head around the fact that a significant number of senior leaders at the Post Office, Fujitsu, and even law firms clearly knew there was a potential problem and yet were still prepared to see people they must have realised were potentially innocent be ruined and go to prison.

This isn’t just a corporate, technical or even legal failure. It’s a profound collective moral failure of incomprehensible proportions.

What were they thinking?

There really has to be prosecutions and punishment for those who allowed this to happen when they knew these convictions were deeply unsafe.

[Passenger]

The more that comes out, the more staggering it is.

I’m finding it genuinely impossible to get my head around the fact that a significant number of senior leaders at the Post Office, Fujitsu, and even law firms clearly knew there was a potential problem and yet were still prepared to see people they must have realised were potentially innocent be ruined and go to prison.

This isn’t just a corporate, technical or even legal failure. It’s a profound collective moral failure of incomprehensible proportions.

What were they thinking?

There really has to be prosecutions and punishment for those who allowed this to happen when they knew these convictions were deeply unsafe.

The convictions were just flat out wrong, lives deliberately ruined by a travesty of 'justice' for a PO, Fujitsu cover up and Government couldn't be bothered to right the wrong until it was on the telly...maybe because Fujitsu are up to their nuts in running almost every aspect of the state machinery...what a time to be alive.

[Jubal]

https://www.itv.com/news/2024-03-28/...rizon-software

Vennells? Venal more like.

[PickleB]

Post Office Inquiry Phase 5 and 6 Timetable...among others, the following will be giving evidence:

	Angela van den Bogerd	Th 25 and Fr 26 April
	Paula Vennells	We 22, Th 23 and Fr 24 April
	Gareth Jenkins	Tu 25 to Fr 28 June

I have my eye on those. I’d also add Susan Crichton.

It will be round two for Rod Ismay and Jarnail Singh. Can’t wait for the victims’ lawyers to get their chance. Rod and Jarnail are the half-wit jesters in this tragedy.

It will also be interesting to see how obfuscating politicians: McFadden, Swinson, Cable, Davey stand up against the precise, economical, incisive questioning of the very good inquiry lawyers. Their intolerance to BS is clear to see.

Given the recent developments / revelations, will they be put under oath and how many of them will 'take the fifth'?

[Passenger]

https://www.itv.com/news/2024-03-28/...rizon-software

Vennells? Venal more like.

You´d imagine the police would be kicking down her door to have a chat: Conspiracy to pervert the course of Justice carries a 7 year sentence, well it´s a start at least.

[number2]

You´d imagine the police would be kicking down her door to have a chat: Conspiracy to pervert the course of Justice carries a 7 year sentence, well it´s a start at least.

And Dido Harding?

[Passenger]

And Dido Harding?

Personally I'm for cleansing the Augean stables from top to bottom but given the filthy state of the Thames that's going be bloody tricky...As my granddad used to say ''they want shooting''.

The state itself could use a reboot as there's a pronounced tendency towards malfeasance, corruption and waste.

[TheFlyingBanana]

You´d imagine the police would be kicking down her door to have a chat: Conspiracy to pervert the course of Justice carries a 7 year sentence, well it´s a start at least.

Yeah… like they did with partygate… all the overwhelming evidence was right there in the public domain but the MET seemed to either not see it or were waiting for Johnson and his cronies to fess up out of a sense of decency and integrity…

That said, a whopping 4% of those now burgled stand a chance of having the perpetrators brought to justice* some years down the line once the courts immense backlog is cleared, although they almost certainly won’t go to prison due to lack of spaces.




*provided the burglars leave a photo of themselves carrying a bag marked “swag” and a signed confession along with their name, address and phone number at the scene, obviously.

[adrianw]

Yeah… like they did with partygate… all the overwhelming evidence was right there in the public domain but the MET seemed to either not see it or were waiting for Johnson and his cronies to fess up out of a sense of decency and integrity…

That said, a whopping 4% of those now burgled stand a chance of having the perpetrators brought to justice* some years down the line once the courts immense backlog is cleared, although they almost certainly won’t go to prison due to lack of spaces.




*provided the burglars leave a photo of themselves carrying a bag marked “swag” and a signed confession along with their name, address and phone number at the scene, obviously.

I've just sorted out our CCTV, if you haven't got a clear picture of their faces and holding up their passports forget the police, all the adverts on TV for monitoring make me laugh

[Passenger]

Yeah… like they did with partygate… all the overwhelming evidence was right there in the public domain but the MET seemed to either not see it or were waiting for Johnson and his cronies to fess up out of a sense of decency and integrity…

That said, a whopping 4% of those now burgled stand a chance of having the perpetrators brought to justice* some years down the line once the courts immense backlog is cleared, although they almost certainly won’t go to prison due to lack of spaces.




*provided the burglars leave a photo of themselves carrying a bag marked “swag” and a signed confession along with their name, address and phone number at the scene, obviously.

This is the way.

The situation is at a very critical pass, it's embarrassingly obvious there is a completely bifurcated legal/justice system, educational system, political system.

Corporate entities and practically anyone else with deep enough pockets, we really aren't choosy, if you can pay to play you too can enjoy special access, political influence, greater protections, more rights......Laughably, and I did watch it in the finish, even in that popular entertainment programme du jour, The Gentleman, a similar observation is made by one of the characters in a latter episode, the way the British state was designed from way back, for gangsters, to run on ancient deferential traditions!... the Establishment always protects it's own, retains power/control for itself...to the detriment of those beneath them, who nevertheless count themselves blessed to receive crumbs, GSTK and the Nhs!

Yet as this scandalous but far from unique episode demonstrates it's a real swizz, costs and ruins innocent lives.

[TheTigerUK]

More evidence...papers reveal PO knew its court defence was false:

A draft report uncovered by the BBC shows the Post Office spent £100m fighting sub-postmasters in court despite knowing its defence was untrue.

The document reveals the Post Office was shown evidence by 2017 that losses could be due to errors in the Horizon IT system or remote tampering.

...

The draft report, titled Bramble, was commissioned by the Post Office in March 2016 and carried out by consultants Deloitte.

Throughout the draft report, Deloitte refers to having already discussed its findings with "Post Office management" and even the fact that some of these were shared with the Post Office's investigators for further analysis.

Tim Parker, the Post Office's chairman at the time of the draft report, also told the BBC via his legal representative that Post Office lawyers liaised with Deloitte about Project Bramble and were responsible for handling, distributing and disclosing it. He added that the Post Office's lawyers were also involved in the "strategy and day to day management of the litigation".

This raises questions as to whether Post Office lawyers met their responsibilities to not mislead the court...

I wonder if there was any back handers going on between the legal firms and Post office people ?

[Passenger]

More secret recordings on CH4 news, where's the MET...tick tock...''a mockery of the justice system, a mockery of the govt, a mockery of the people'' according to one female victim like so many she was ruined, jailed, lost everything back in 07, 08, named Janet Skinner, speaks very movingly and cogently, calls a spade a spade, ''Vennells is a liar.''.. what a travesty...

[Chris_in_the_UK]

Not often I am lost for words, but.....

[TheFlyingBanana]

Not often I am lost for words, but.....

I know what you mean. The more that comes out, the more horrifying it gets.

It’s really hard for any decent person to get their head around this. It isn’t a “scandal”, it’s far, far worse than that.

To learn that very senior people at The Post Office were clearly content to allow thousands of honest people to have their lives ruined, and even go to prison is beyond comprehension and is a damning indictment of collective corporate evil.

The MET needs to get off its arse, make arrests, and prosecute these creatures, starting with Venells.

[KavKav]

I know what you mean. The more that comes out, the more horrifying it gets.

It’s really hard for any decent person to get their head around this. It isn’t a “scandal”, it’s far, far worse than that.

To learn that very senior people at The Post Office were clearly content to allow thousands of honest people to have their lives ruined, and even go to prison is beyond comprehension and is a damning indictment of collective corporate evil.

The MET needs to get off its arse, make arrests, and prosecute these creatures, starting with Venells.

Perfectly summed up!

[TheTigerUK]

I know what you mean. The more that comes out, the more horrifying it gets.

It’s really hard for any decent person to get their head around this. It isn’t a “scandal”, it’s far, far worse than that.

To learn that very senior people at The Post Office were clearly content to allow thousands of honest people to have their lives ruined, and even go to prison is beyond comprehension and is a damning indictment of collective corporate evil.

The MET needs to get off its arse, make arrests, and prosecute these creatures, starting with Venells.

And still nothing being done to all the real offenders !!!!

[Jubal]

Hmm. Slapped wrists coming up. Contempt of Parliament? Pity the punishment amounts to a telling off.

[TKH]

Just goes from bad to worse evidence stacking up against them all daily, it's hard for decent people with scruples and a moral compass to comprehend how an individual or individuals like Crichton and Venells are comfortable and indeed smug that their actions and 'mistruths' result in victims being imprisoned, losing livelihoods, homes they and their children live in or worse ending lives.

It's a special kind of individual they are a variety of NPD cases incapable of emotion or empathy those whose heart rate doesn't flicker upon witnessing the sorrow and misery they have inflicted on others, they are able to mentally convince themselves of 'their' version of events and speak it like a mantra and normally take retribution on anyone around them who questions their 'truth' as they have a position higher than those calling them out meaning they can do them harm financially or otherwise... Not unlike Trumps WH staff.

On the video at '9.17' Crichton saying "How do we sell this to MP's" she is clearly intentionally looking to create a false reality utterly shameless.

How Venells got a gong or board memberships with Dunelm , Morrisons or indeed Chairwoman of an NHS Trust or became ordained by the church and their 'Ethical investment' advisor is beyond belief but incredibly telling of the upper echelon of society and politics.

In terms of accountability I too worry these individuals will just be named and shamed and little more whereas they should be on trial and the jury made up of all the postmasters who's lives they have ruined.

One things for sure Venells 'Linkedin' page will be fascinating.

[Passenger]

Fugly on the outside, worse within.

Aye that line ''how do we sell this to MP's'' was a corker...that they, MP's can be sold, unsurprising ,,''you can't cheat an honest man'' lolz. The corruption is deep and wide...why aren't the MET or Serious Crimes people talking to PV, Fujitsu brass already, there's clear evidence of a conspiracy to pervert justice and misuse/ subvert the machinery of the justice system to prosecute, jail and ruin entirely innocent people wrongfully, sadistically even, at scale for heavens sake, in the pursuit of corporate/ business goals...hells there's tapes, reams of evidence... piffle, paffle, harrumph ''not remotely a corrupt country'''...

[blackal]

She ain't gonna be hanging around for prosecution.

She has enough money (prob even if her pensions are seized).

That should be the first thing-prior to the police at her door.

[TheFlyingBanana]

You think she might do a runner overseas?

I think you could be right.

Unfortunately as we know now, the MET tends to move with all the urgency and speed of a particularly slow glacier…

And as others have pointed out, Vennels is one of the top tier in society, so the establishment tends to be far less keen on prosecuting such people than they are say, postmasters and members of the general public.

Perhaps Michelle Mone could lend Paula her yacht for a moonlit flit…

[blackal]

I'm sure she is going to do a runner, citing some shite about "needing to move to warmer climes for her health" - in order to maintain a false narrative.

Bet she has already started to liquidate assets and move funds beyond 'normal' reach.

[Passenger]

You think she might do a runner overseas?

I think you could be right.

Unfortunately as we know now, the MET tends to move with all the urgency and speed of a particularly slow glacier…

And as others have pointed out, Vennels is one of the top tier in society, so the establishment tends to be far less keen on prosecuting such people than they are say, postmasters and members of the general public.

Perhaps Michelle Mone could lend Paula her yacht for a moonlit flit…

Ah not so glacial, tardy when it came to protect a sanctioned Russian oligarch´s London mansion, lolz, the keystone cops were out in force then, keen to seize the property back from protesters

https://www.businessinsider.com/russ...n-putin-2022-5

Or when it came to bashing female mourners at an out door wake...Decidedly funny priorities sometimes the Met, almost like there´s a 2 tier, 2 class approach, see also the door holding for deliveries and blind eye turning to the No.10 covid drinkathon.

[blackal]

As soon as Starmer gets in - he should immediately pin the Police and CPS down on arrests and prosecutions.

And when they can't explain their innaction................ disciplinaries on them.

[Passenger]

I'm sure she is going to do a runner, citing some shite about "needing to move to warmer climes for her health" - in order to maintain a false narrative.

Bet she has already started to liquidate assets and move funds beyond 'normal' reach.

So leaving aside for the sake of argument that the UK does have extradition treaties- arrangements in place with a 100 territories, would she- the Establishment, apply the ´´out of sight out of mind´´ adage, would that ´do´ for all her victims then...it´s hardly British Justice or fairness...is it?

[blackal]

So leaving aside for the sake of argument that the UK does have extradition treaties- arrangements in place with a 100 territories, would she- the Establishment, apply the ´´out of sight out of mind´´ adage, would that ´do´ for all her victims then...it´s hardly British Justice or fairness...is it?

I think that is exactly what would happen.

You never know what implicating evidence she has - and who could be dragged into it.

BUT - If Starmer immediately (after Plod and the CPS get off their arses) announces to the public - the plan.................. You have to say it would be a popular move.

[TheFlyingBanana]

The police, and in particular the MET, only seem to move in these kind of cases (eg Partygate) after the evidence becomes overwhelming and the public gets really pissed off.

[Passenger]

I think that is exactly what would happen.

You never know what implicating evidence she has - and who could be dragged into it.

BUT - If Starmer immediately (after Plod and the CPS get off their arses) announces to the public - the plan.................. You have to say it would be a popular move.

I´d like to believe it would be a universally popular move, popular outside the Establishment that is... After all if they can come for Post Masters and we don´t speak out, they can come for any of us some day...

[blackal]

The police, and in particular the MET, only seem to move in these kind of cases (eg Partygate) after the evidence becomes overwhelming and the public gets really pissed off.

But, but....................... they don't investigate 'historical' crimes.

[TheFlyingBanana]

But, but....................... they don't investigate 'historical' crimes.

I have to say I’ve always found that to be one of the most incredulous statements ever made by the police, or anyone in public.

By implication one must assume the police are only interested in future crime, a la Minority Report.

[Chris_in_the_UK]

I have to say I’ve always found that to be one of the most incredulous statements ever made by the police, or anyone in public.

By implication one must assume the police are only interested in future crime, a la Minority Report.

All crime is 'historical' unless the perps. are caught in the act.

[TheFlyingBanana]

All crime is 'historical' unless the perps. are caught in the act.

Exactly my point.

The only justification for ignoring historical crime would be a statute of limitations- which we don’t have.

Besides, the Police regularly investigate decades old cold case files, so that completely nullifies any argument they might attempt to make about not being minded to look into potential crimes from just a few years ago.