Will Paula Venells ever be held accountable?

[blackal]

Exactly my point.

The only justification for ignoring historical crime would be a statute of limitations- which we don’t have.

Besides, the Police regularly investigate decades old cold case files, so that completely nullifies any argument they might attempt to make about not being minded to look into potential crimes from just a few years ago.

Plod patting themselves on the back for their relentless investigations....................

One of the UK’s most wanted fugitives has been arrested at Heathrow airport after 27 years on the run and is due to appear in court on child sexual abuse charges.
Richard Burrows, 80, was arrested on Thursday after flying back to the UK from Thailand, nearly three decades after a warrant was issued for his arrest.

Cheshire police had been trying to track him down since December 1997, when he failed to attend Chester crown court where he was due to stand trial for two counts of buggery and 11 counts of indecent assault.
The charges relate to sexual abuse of children alleged to have occurred at a children’s home in Congleton, Cheshire, and in the West Midlands between 1969 and 1971.
DI Eleanor Atkinson from Cheshire constabulary said: “Our determination to locate Burrows has not faltered over the past 27 years and his arrest marks a significant step forward in this case and the beginning of closure for all those involved.
“I also hope that his arrest acts as a warning to any other wanted suspects – demonstrating that no matter how long you hide, we will find you and you will be arrested.”
Inquiries to locate Burrows, whose full name is Richard John Ramsey Burrows, have continued since his disappearance, including multiple wanted appeals and a Crimewatch appeal in 1998.
Atkinson said: “I would like to thank the public for the information that they have provided over the years during our search for Burrows and I hope that his arrest provides some reassurance,.”
Duncan Burrage, a National Crime Agency international liaison officer in Thailand, said the arrest “demonstrates law enforcement’s unwavering commitment to hunt down those who await justice in the UK”.
“Utilising our international network and working closely with Cheshire police colleagues, we have been able to track down a fugitive wanted in connection to extremely serious allegations,” he said.
Burrows has been remanded in police custody and is due to appear at Chester crown court on Tuesday.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...heshire-police


FFS! They bunged him on Crimewatch in 1998, and did shag-all in the invervening 27yrs - until he came into Heathrow and got pulled automatically.

[Passenger]

Plod patting themselves on the back for their relentless investigations....................

One of the UK’s most wanted fugitives has been arrested at Heathrow airport after 27 years on the run and is due to appear in court on child sexual abuse charges.
Richard Burrows, 80, was arrested on Thursday after flying back to the UK from Thailand, nearly three decades after a warrant was issued for his arrest.

Cheshire police had been trying to track him down since December 1997, when he failed to attend Chester crown court where he was due to stand trial for two counts of buggery and 11 counts of indecent assault.
The charges relate to sexual abuse of children alleged to have occurred at a children’s home in Congleton, Cheshire, and in the West Midlands between 1969 and 1971.
DI Eleanor Atkinson from Cheshire constabulary said: “Our determination to locate Burrows has not faltered over the past 27 years and his arrest marks a significant step forward in this case and the beginning of closure for all those involved.
“I also hope that his arrest acts as a warning to any other wanted suspects – demonstrating that no matter how long you hide, we will find you and you will be arrested.”
Inquiries to locate Burrows, whose full name is Richard John Ramsey Burrows, have continued since his disappearance, including multiple wanted appeals and a Crimewatch appeal in 1998.
Atkinson said: “I would like to thank the public for the information that they have provided over the years during our search for Burrows and I hope that his arrest provides some reassurance,.”
Duncan Burrage, a National Crime Agency international liaison officer in Thailand, said the arrest “demonstrates law enforcement’s unwavering commitment to hunt down those who await justice in the UK”.
“Utilising our international network and working closely with Cheshire police colleagues, we have been able to track down a fugitive wanted in connection to extremely serious allegations,” he said.
Burrows has been remanded in police custody and is due to appear at Chester crown court on Tuesday.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...heshire-police


FFS! They bunged him on Crimewatch in 1998, and did shag-all in the invervening 27yrs - until he came into Heathrow and got pulled automatically.

Top man hunting displayed there

[Jubal]

As soon as Starmer gets in - he should immediately pin the Police and CPS down on arrests and prosecutions.

And when they can't explain their innaction................ disciplinaries on them.

This is on point. Our “system” kicks the can down the road so slowly that the consequences of action, or inaction, are rarely suffered by the top table. I have no faith in Labour showing a set of teeth sharp enough to upset the Met and Civil Service in any meaningful way.

[Templogin]

Blackbeltbarrister explains on YouTube

[blackal]

ITV NEWS

[BillyCasper]

Given the recent developments / revelations, will they be put under oath and how many of them will 'take the fifth'?

Under oath, statutory inquiry.

A reminder, testimonies start again next week and they will be available on YouTube.

https://www.postofficehorizoninquiry...nd-6-timetable

Next week’s include Alan Bates and Lord Arbuthnot.

As highlighted before, I reckon Vennells, Jenkins, van den Bogert and Crichton are amongst the must watches. And, Ismay, Singh and squirming politicians of all parties to make you both laugh at their stupidity and cry at the consequences.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[PickleB]

For ease of reference:

• Phase 5 and 6 Timetable
  
  
• List of witnesses for Phases 5 and 6

[TheTigerUK]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68452842

[TheFlyingBanana]

Just awful:

'I'm terrified' - Post Office victim still fears seeing old customers https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68741232

[KavKav]

Under oath, statutory inquiry.

A reminder, testimonies start again next week and they will be available on YouTube.

https://www.postofficehorizoninquiry...nd-6-timetable

Next week’s include Alan Bates and Lord Arbuthnot.

As highlighted before, I reckon Vennells, Jenkins, van den Bogert and Crichton are amongst the must watches. And, Ismay, Singh and squirming politicians of all parties to make you both laugh at their stupidity and cry at the consequences.


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Of one thing you may be certain, the ‘sainted’ Vennells will wriggle like a hooked fish and wring her hands piteously at the unfairness of it all. If there is any justice at all, she will eventually hear the righteous sound of a cell door slamming behind her!

[oldoakknives]

This is the way.

The situation is at a very critical pass, it's embarrassingly obvious there is a completely bifurcated legal/justice system, educational system, political system.

Corporate entities and practically anyone else with deep enough pockets, we really aren't choosy, if you can pay to play you too can enjoy special access, political influence, greater protections, more rights......Laughably, and I did watch it in the finish, even in that popular entertainment programme du jour, The Gentleman, a similar observation is made by one of the characters in a latter episode, the way the British state was designed from way back, for gangsters, to run on ancient deferential traditions!... the Establishment always protects it's own, retains power/control for itself...to the detriment of those beneath them, who nevertheless count themselves blessed to receive crumbs, GSTK and the Nhs!

Yet as this scandalous but far from unique episode demonstrates it's a real swizz, costs and ruins innocent lives.

Whatever next? Police chief constables suddenly having their contracts renewed early with increased salaries perhaps?

[TheFlyingBanana]

I may be being naive here, but as someone who has led reasonably large public organisations in the past, I simply can’t comprehend the behaviour of the Post Office leadership over the course of numerous years.

I am certain that if I had been in Vennells position, or any position where I had even had an inkling that people were being wrongly prosecuted, I would have blown the whistle so loudly, issued public statements, and done whatever was necessary to put a stop to it - fallout be damned.

I’d be very certain that the vast majority of TZ’ers
reading this would do exactly the same.

It just seems so clear that there shouldn’t have been a moment’s doubt or prevarication from any leader.

Instead, they all seem to have been willing to not just cross a great big red line that was very clear and unequivocal, but to keep doing so over and over again is simply beyond comprehension.

Any evidence (and it is now clear that there was plenty) that even a single Postmaster might have possibly been wrongly prosecuted and even sent to prison should have instantly resulted in the nuclear button being pushed by management for a full, transparent and independent investigation.

But instead some kind of warped collusion developed that continued for nearly twenty years and through multiple generations of leadership.

Try as I might, I just can’t get my head around this. It is beyond mind blowing.

All who knew, or even suspected, but did nothing and allowed this truly evil abuse to continue need to be rounded up and prosecuted, fined and imprisoned so that a very clear message is sent that this must never happen again. Ever.

[Passenger]

Of one thing you may be certain, the ‘sainted’ Vennells will wriggle like a hooked fish and wring her hands piteously at the unfairness of it all. If there is any justice at all, she will eventually hear the righteous sound of a cell door slamming behind her!

One imagines the spiritual and moral torment for someone such as her, y'know ordained and in the god bothering game, at the heinous mistreatment, wrongful prosecutions, ruination and death even of honest Post Masters, that all this could have happened upon her watch, in her bailiwick with her blessings as the tapes demonstrate...I imagine her Christian faith, her conscience must be burning white hot, to redeem herself she must confess, accept justice, thereby earning forgiveness and redemption for her wrongdoing before God and man.

Shan't hold my breath though.

[number2]

All who knew, or even suspected, but did nothing and allowed this truly evil abuse to continue need to be rounded up and prosecuted, fined and imprisoned so that a very clear message is sent that this must never happen again. Ever.

This ^^^ seems to be 'hardwired' into the system, along with only cursory investigation by our media/police, but then you don't get on the honours list by looking for the truth, GSTK - obviously.

[TheFlyingBanana]

Finally saying what should have been said years ago - from Guardian news feed:

Post Office minister: people responsible for the Horizon scandal 'should go to jail'

Post Office minister Kevin Hollinrake has said people responsible for the Horizon scandal “should go to jail” in an interview on BBC Breakfast.

Without specifically naming any one person, he told viewers:

The inquiry is unearthing the evidence, what you see now is a result of the inquiry, the statutory inquiry.

The Metropolitan police are undertaking an investigation – the Government doesn’t do that, the police do that.

When evidence has been established, people should be prosecuted – that’s my view.

And I think you, and other people I’ve spoken to, and I certainly feel, people within the Post Office, possibly further afield, should go to jail.

He continued:

We have to go through a process, we believe in the rule of law – lots of people in this room, and other people, have not had the benefit of the rule of law.

It has failed, failed these people, inexcusably.

We do believe in process, that’s the country we are very proud to live in.

But if the threshold is met, the evidence is there, where criminal prosecutions can be undertaken – and that those people are found guilty – I have no reservation in saying people should go to jail.

The former Post Office boss Paula Vennells, who ran the Post Office while it routinely denied there was a problem with its Horizon IT system, has already forfeited her CBE for “bringing the honours system into disrepute” over her handling of the Horizon crisis.

Fujitsu’s Europe chief Paul Patterson has said it was “shameful and appalling” that courts hearing cases against post office operators over missing funds were not told of 29 bugs identified as early as 1999 in the accounting system it built.

The former chief executive of Royal Mail, Adam Crozier, and the campaigner Alan Bates will give evidence this week as the public inquiry into the scandal enters its next phase.

[Templogin]

I can to a certain extent, in a limited and specific way, understand that the first jailing may have been "overlooked", but the first suicide should have really kicked someone's conscience into gear, especially the god botherer.

[blackal]

I can to a certain extent, in a limited and specific way, understand that the first jailing may have been "overlooked", but the first suicide should have really kicked someone's conscience into gear, especially the god botherer.

Both sexes, by the nature of their ascendency to the top of companies - prove to be devoid of compassion and sense of right.


So-o-o.................. I am comfortable in applying the same to her, and would happily see her horsewhipped until there was nary a shred of skin left on her scrawny body.

"Oooh! you're no better than her!"

I fucking am.

[deepreddave]

Can't help but think that if the Police were genuinely interested and encouraged to investigate (potential) crimes like the PO, Mone, Johnson, Jenrick be etc al they would be arresting potential offenders and bailing them so as to limit their ability to coordinate their answers with others, destroy evidence, escape the country. The fact they don't is as shameful as it is unsurprising.

[blackal]

Can't help but think that if the Police were genuinely interested and encouraged to investigate (potential) crimes like the PO, Mone, Johnson, Jenrick be etc al they would be arresting potential offenders and bailing them so as to limit their ability to coordinate their answers with others, destroy evidence, escape the country. The fact they don't is as shameful as it is unsurprising.

Indeed - compare and contrast........................

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...t-payment-case

[Jubal]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rXC4av8tXFY

Good on Channel 4 news. Not letting go.

[TheFlyingBanana]

It is extremely difficult to reconcile Venells purported Christian values with her actions as CEO.

I hope the enquiry grills her like a kipper and is a step closer to prosecution for the truly guilty ones - the PO management.

[number2]

Indeed - compare and contrast........................

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...t-payment-case

Terrible and so different from those who are ''hand in glove'' with the ******.

[TKH]

It is extremely difficult to reconcile Venells purported Christian values with her actions as CEO.

I hope the enquiry grills her like a kipper and is a step closer to prosecution for the truly guilty ones - the PO management.

Someone is going to have a big bill to pay, wonder who ?

Paula Vennells represented by Sonia Campbell, Mishcon de Reya LLP

https://www.mishcon.com/people/sonia-campbell

[Passenger]

disgusting and so different from those who are ''hand in glove'' with ...

''Without fear or favour''

[Passenger]

It is extremely difficult to reconcile Venells purported Christian values with her actions as CEO.

I hope the enquiry grills her like a kipper and is a step closer to prosecution for the truly guilty ones - the PO management.

A fish rots from the head down and the buck stops with Venneels

[oldoakknives]

All good.

[number2]

Language and politics in the G & D ?

Apologies Ian and thank you for bringing that to my attention, my error in letting my opinion obstruct my judgement. Now off to amend the post.

[oldoakknives]

Fair enough, will delete mine.

[Passenger]

Have it on in the background...seems the most heinous example of high handed corporate arse covering and the organisation completely ignoring Mr Bate´s entirely accurate, fact based criticisms of the H system and his entirely proper efforts to bring the problems up with the chain of command at the PO, to no good outcome... alas...what a thoroughgoing disgrace, abuse of their power..´´.something is rotten in the state of Denmark´´

[Michael 38]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rXC4av8tXFY

Good on Channel 4 news. Not letting go.

Is she still a vicar ? if so what does that say about the church of england

[jools]

Have it on in the background...seems the most heinous example of high handed corporate arse covering and the organisation completely ignoring Mr Bate´s entirely accurate, fact based criticisms of the H system and his entirely proper efforts to bring the problems up with the chain of command at the PO, to no good outcome... alas...what a thoroughgoing disgrace, abuse of their power..´´.something is rotten in the state of Denmark´´

I've been watching today's session; apologies for stating the bleeding obvious, but Alan Bates seems to be a remarkably capable individual, with a high level of integrity.

[TheFlyingBanana]

I've been watching today's session; apologies for stating the bleeding obvious, but Alan Bates seems to be a remarkably capable individual, with a high level of integrity.

If ever there were someone who deserves a knighthood or a place in the House of Lords, it is Alan Bates.

The man has more integrity in his little finger than the entire Government has.

Let’s not forget the kinds of nonentities and dubious characters this Government has recognised and rewarded.

Ah, just checked Wikipedia:

“In 2024, Bates turned down a compensation offer from the government, referring to the offer as 'derisory'.”

So he won’t be getting any respect or recognition from Rishi or his rabble.

[Passenger]

If ever there were someone who deserves a knighthood or a place in the House of Lords, it is Alan Bates.

The man has more integrity in his little finger than the entire Government has.

Let’s not forget the kinds of nonentities and dubious characters this Government has recognised and rewarded.

Ah, just checked Wikipedia:

“In 2024, Bates turned down a compensation offer from the government, referring to the offer as 'derisory'.”

So he won’t be getting any respect or recognition from Rishi or his rabble.

Hear. hear.

[Jubal]

Is she still a vicar ? if so what does that say about the church of england

It says their rules are inadequate. They can never remove the title/status of vicar until they vote to bring back defrocking. I have no idea whether they’ve banned her from officiating, which they still can do.

[TheFlyingBanana]

I’m pretty sure she is not active or officiating, and has stepped down (with little option) from all her directorships and other appointments.

So hopefully when she’s not actually responding to the Inquiry, she spends her time alone, in her home, unable to go out for the shame in her local community, shaking with fear at the prospect of potentially going to prison.

Much like hundreds of innocent postmasters were forced to do.

[Jubal]

Good on you Alan!

[blackal]

• Fraud
• Malicious Prosecution
• Criminal Conspiracy
• Perverting the Course of Justice
• Corporate Manslaughter.

I'm sure a case could be made for most of those, and not just on a corporate level.

[brigant]

• Fraud
• Malicious Prosecution
• Criminal Conspiracy
• Perverting the Course of Justice
• Corporate Manslaughter.

I'm sure a case could be made for most of those, and not just on a corporate level.

Perjury

[KavKav]

A fish rots from the head down and the buck stops with Venneels

Venneels is a useful word in this context as you can be sure she will, when asked to account for her abysmally dishonest and criminal stewardship, wriggle like one on the hook!

[blackal]

This appeared on my Youtube feed this morning:

[Passenger]

Good on you Alan!

AB's a hero, no doubt. And thank goodness for the TV dramatization.... Though I'm troubled, he's 70 now, what if getting all the criminal scum investigated, charged, into court, successfully prosecuted and thence to jail should take another 10, 20, 30 years?
Will AB live to see it, Venneels too come to that is 65 already, she may never have to spend even a day in prison... Our systems, investigatory, judicial, governmental such as they are, do appear incapable of not only checks and balances, but also holding the guilty people- entities to account and meting out justice and-or compensation in a timely fashion ie upon a human lifespan scale...now whether this is deliberate, ´´at arms length´´, thus by design is another troubling question.
Something stinks to high heaven here, in a country that claims to pride itself on the rule of law, fair play...and I don´t mean only the river flowing past the Palace of Westminster.

[adrianw]

The police must have been complicit in some of the prosecutions, one has to wonder if that's why they are dragging their feet, if a crime has been committed they should be investigating it and interviewing witnesses straight away.

[blackal]

The police must have been complicit in some of the prosecutions, one has to wonder if that's why they are dragging their feet, if a crime has been committed they should be investigating it and interviewing witnesses straight away.

They'll only take action when absolutely forced into it.

Can't wait for the excuses to flow (once those at the top have retired with fat pension, of course)

[TheTigerUK]

I wonder how many 100s or 1000s of sub post masters lost money over the years due to the Horizon software but just kept topping up the system with there own money and it was never reported to the Post Office because obviously there wasn't or couldn't be a problem due to the Post Offices software.

[noTAGlove]

Anyone know when it is PVs turn to give evidence at the inquiry?

[PickleB]

Anyone know when it is PVs turn to give evidence at the inquiry?

See this post for links to the website where you will find that info. At present she is timetabled for We 22, Th 23 and Fr 24 May.

[blackal]

David Smith doing a good job of landing everything with his ‘team’. Body language is a tad revealing too.

I suspect in court - he might sit up a bit.

Happy to reassure Patel that Horizon is sound, but a few days later (I think) - in response to Ch4 planning a documentary and asking questions - he suddenly asks for a review - but still with the intent of putting it to bed.

EDIT: Just seen this in Guardian.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ors-conviction

[Jubal]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68792632

How convenient. Top table guy has no idea how his own business worked. Added to which, Adam Crozier has just said the prosecutions of Post Masters and implications thereof never made it to a risk register at PO board or RM board level.

It beggars belief.

[BillyCasper]

Alan (I know nothing) Cook, no quarter given by the interested parties’ lawyers this morning and rightly so.

In an email shown to the inquiry, Cook wrote in 2009: “My instincts tell that, in a recession, subbies with their hand in the till choose to blame the technology when they are found to be short of cash".

He didn’t really know what the investigations and criminal law teams did and didn’t realise that they investigated, instigated and brought prosecutions. He assumed the Police and CPS were involved.

He fingered Vennells by assuming it was she who authorised inordinate expenditure on legal fees to recover a relatively small sum from Lee Castleton, a particularly egregious prosecution by the PO.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Mouse]

I've been watching everything, every day. It's fascinating and incredibly troubling at the same time.

I find it hard to get my head around the structure of the PO and the Royal mail. It's an inept behemoth (as I suspect are many corporations of this size, but as a nation we seem to have a peculiar knack for creating such things....especially where the top of the tree is the government).

And, as taxpayers, this is 'our' company. Let that sink in when you look at the company figures/spends that are being shown in evidence.

David Smith the other day looked/sounded very suss, Alan Cook today was backed against the wall - rightly so.

The Paula Vennells 'show' will be an absolute 'must see'!

This has a long way to run, but heads are going to have to roll eventually, surely. The word 'scandal' is a huge understatement.