Reply With QuoteFinally, Will Mellor breaks his silence.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-eng...ester-67916492
Now I just need Sheridan Smith to talk about flood defences.
I saw the relinquishing of the CBE to be a starting point. I would be happy to see her financially ruined too, but sadly that isn't going to happen. I feel sure that the loss of the CBE will be said to be sufficient punishment.Originally Posted by KavKav
Finally, Will Mellor breaks his silence.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-eng...ester-67916492
Now I just need Sheridan Smith to talk about flood defences.
I feel that the most damage will be done - if nothing is done about her CBE, until she is dragged into court. Don't give any committees any chance to wipe their hands of her in the run up to any prosecution...................
Let them continue to fly with the crows...........
Now at 1,157,500
The inquiry hearings are available on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgi...8X4Nvjx3TmrHhg
The last one before the Christmas break was questioning from one of the Inquiry Counsel put to one of the Post Office investigating officers. It's quite compelling to watch, despite it being two hours long the questioning provided a very clear picture: that the investigating officer clearly believed that 'the Horizon system was not at fault' mantra and refused to accept the shown evidence of the postmaster's repeated attempts to get help from the Horizon helpline when they were struggling to balance the books.
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
Is there one for Ed Davey to be stripped of his knighthood? Astonishing that he was given one in the first place.
He was there for two years, in a scandal lasting decades, and ceased being the responsible minister in 2012. Yet you pick him out. Typical.
David
Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations
I watched it all,it surprisingly draws you in and leaves you shaking your head.
The last lawyer left her squirming,she remembers that trial and what she said I am sure of that.
To many major pointers that would have stood out for her not to.
But you can see she still has no remorse.
Why is there not more clamour to go after Fujitsu?
They were the ones that wrote and maintained such a terrible piece of software (probably getting paid extremely handsomely for it).
It struck me all the way through this saga that they were quietly sitting in the background while all the other players were tearing chunks out of each other.
There is no way they should get any mney for something now completely proven to be unfit for purpose.
The TV drama also didn't think to cast any blame in their direction, but was very pointed about singling out certain other players.
Same applies for shonky PPE unfit for purpose and Serco test and trace, but they all got paid, so I dunno if the UK plc applecart will or can be upset, over just people...we rely so much on the kindness of strangers to keep the big wheels turning economically speaking...see also the example of DP world ferry bizzo, folks getting unfairly sacked off, taken out by security... outrage from the politicals but nowt actually done iirc...consider Enoch's situation, or the poor sods in the burning tower block...that material/cladding was banned in States according to a Yank mate of mine, but they got away with using it in Blighty...profits before people...there's always more people. Corporate entities, and their political hand maidens, on the other hand seem to have charmed life. Best say no more though. Stiff upper lips.
Last edited by Passenger; 9th January 2024 at 08:48.
I thought similar in that there ought to be no difficulties in identifying those involved in the implementation and live updating of the software and obtaining their testimony; there needs to accountability of those who oversaw any PO proceedings, criminal or otherwise, whilst knowing the Horizon system was unreliable. Why is the Govt/PO not seeking compensation from Fujitsu? Is it because they acknowledge they knew the system was unreliable?
The reality is that I no longer trust our Govt to seek the full truth anymore than they have with Brexit, the Russian report, MPs second jobs etc as they're fundamentally corrupt (as the honours awarded shows).
Water companies and effluent in the rivers, sea's but record profits and no CEO's ever inconvenienced, meanwhile quite a few innocent people have had some rather exciting tummy bugs...
The most annoying thing about this whole affair is that none of those responsible will end up skint in a bedsit. They'll still be sitting pretty with big pensions and loadsamoney in the bank.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Lifestyle choice isn't it, to end up skint in bedsit, on the street in a tent. Not dissimilar to those malingerers on long term sick, some sure to be feigning symptoms, disability...either work, from home, which will set them free or death will when their bennies are cut down by 50 quid a week. Get this country moving again, patriotic duty. GSTK.
Last edited by Passenger; 9th January 2024 at 09:57.
How many will have watched it tho.I haven't as it will annoy the hell out of me.
So not in real terms considering population.
Lifestyle choice to be wrongly accused, lose your livelihood and home and be sent to prison is it?
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Aye probably if the same Randian, ´´the market knows best´´ type logic is applied, to play devils advocate...And we have rather a devil take the hindmost, adopted an arbeit macht frei policy, see previous examples, and privatise the profits- honours whilst socialising the losses type of socio economic construct within which corporate entities will never metaphorically lose so much as a moments sleep, people though can and do lose it all...or we´ve apathetically allowed it to be thrust upon us...but bunting, blue passports.
Last edited by Passenger; 9th January 2024 at 10:35.
This is G&D, so don't want to get too political but you need to listen to the views of the previous Home Secretary - then you'll get it.
I was surprised he didn´t, hasn´t got it.
So it all comes down to that.
Last edited by oldoakknives; 9th January 2024 at 23:26.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Come, come it was both the greatest lie ever told, leastways in my ´political´ lifetime, and now defines, pollutes the place...to ignore, avoid this, is to seek to avoid facing the facts, reality, which coincidentally is often what naughty children try and do...But yes we´re in the wrong venue. Apologies didn´t mean to ruffle feathers.
GSTK.
Last edited by Passenger; 9th January 2024 at 10:57.
I think you missed that...........................
It's early but have you been drinking?
It does rather stretch belief that you could attend a three day trial, one in which your evidence was dismissed and the defendant be found not guilty, yet not be able to remember it at all.
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
I caught the house of commons debate by accident this morning.
It was refreshing to see everyone was on side from all partys,asking the same questions we are asking.
One MP mentioned how his constituent had been the one who had been into Fujuitsu and inadvertently seen them altering the figures/settings.
The next day he was raided by investigators for a massive overnight shortfall,his name was removed from the visitor log etc.etc.
Which bit of 'no politics' in the G&D do you and a few others not understand Soapy?
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
I'm afraid that since Eddie has been laid up some folk think they can swear and/or debate politics in the G&D.
Perhaps have a bit of respect for Eddie and his wishes on how this section of the forum is to be run.
There is the Bear Pit for the rest.
Cheers,
Neil.
Just popped up on the news the lady in question will be handing back her CBE with immeadiate effect
I FEEL LIKE I'M DIAGONALLY PARKED IN A PARALLEL UNIVERSE
Good but hopefully that isn’t the end of the matter for her.
I just saw on the BBC that Venells is giving back her gong, I can only assume she doesn't want to suffer the indignity of having it stripped from her,
Wasn't the build team in fact definitely-not-Japanese UK ICL? I think I read somewhere that management regarded about half the team as barely competent...
We will never know why ICL were awarded, and totally stuffed up, so many large govt contracts, or indeed why there is so little mention of these anywhere on the internet. Horizon? Landscape? Cafaca? Swirly conspiracy music plays...
It's a fair point, but imho the subject of this thread was and is a valid G&D discussion, but given that Parliament is involved, and that many of the players are in the political spectrum, the dividing line might be hard to police.
If only we could rely on collective decorum.
Fujitsu was the majority owner at time of award and became sole owner between then and deployment and ever since. It was a basket case. They knew it. The Labour government considered cancellation, but Fujitsu lobbied and pressured to carry on.
........in 1998, following a meeting between the British ambassador to Japan and Fujitsu executives, the British embassy in Tokyo wrote to the UK government warning it of serious economic repercussions, including UK job losses and reductions in trade, if Fujitsu/ICL’s software contract with the Post Office was cancelled......
Out of interest how much was the Fujitsu contract worth in total ?
Thanks,my post wasnt political in anyway, it was quite clearly neutral and fitted in with the discussion.
Little boots and his cronies seem to me the very same kind of self righteous,deliberatley reading things to suit their agenda types who worked at the PO.
She might be handing back her gong, but the woman still needs to be prosecuted and jailed. Her statement is f*cking unreal:
The devastation, ruined lives, suicides etc. weren’t ‘caused’ by Horizon, they were caused by PO relentless and brutal determination to pursue these victims to the end in spite of evidence known to be suspect - lying and covering up were necessary to further their own goals. Fujitsu may be responsible for the sh*tty software but it is PO, and ultimately Vennells herself who are responsible for what the PO did as a result of the failings. They could have taken a completely different path right from the start, but they chose not to."I am truly sorry for the devastation caused to the sub-postmasters and their families, whose lives were torn apart by being wrongly accused and wrongly prosecuted as a result of the Horizon system."
The arrogance of it! Not an inkling of a genuine apology, no contrition, no sense of personal regret. Nothing to do with me, I am above the law and above reproach, etc., etc.
Honestly, there has been a lot going in ‘public life’ in the last few years that has made me want to jump screaming out of the nearest window but this particular situation is really taking it to the next level! Maybe I need to unplug for a few days…!
Last edited by Neil.Ldn; 9th January 2024 at 15:32.
I am with you on that, just look at that womans face in the video I posted above.
But she has God on her side and the righteous can't lose. It really is incredible.
I am not covered for her, but in reality her hands will be tied on what she can and can’t say given she has not given any evidence at the public enquiry or possible future criminal proceedings against the PO.
Handed back before the shame or embarrassment if any of having it taken back.
The latter would have been my preference,but then we can't wait years for the Government to grow some balls to do that.
Precisely this. Only when she knew it was going to be removed one way or another did she try to pre-empt and seize some kind of initiative and control of the narrative.
Dreadful woman.
So clever my foot fell off.
This guy has a lot of questions to answer too…another corporate rotter…
https://amp.theguardian.com/media/20...oyal-mail-boss
No one was ever bought to task yet about Northern Rock, RBS, Grenfell or Carillion yet either. I was under the impression that you had legal responsibilities as a company director that enabled you to face sanction if you failed in these responsibilities?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
As bwest76 posted earlier & others have commented :
In the tv programme
“One MP mentioned how his constituent had been the one who had been into Fujuitsu and inadvertently seen them altering the figures/settings.
The next day he was raided by investigators for a massive overnight shortfall,his name was removed from the visitor log etc.etc.”
If This was going on - and the postmasters were being made scapegoats for problems with the Fujitsu software through covert criminal activity ( altering figures/ settings) then why is there not more focus on holding Fujitsu to account ?
The CBE saga is surely secondary to a global corporation deliberately falsifying good People’s daily work to hide their own equipment failure?
Indeed.
Has vennels handed back her £5,000 000 pay off?
I've been following this for years ... finally it's getting some heat because of a TV docu drama ... I wonder what that says about our justice system?
Seems there is no risk of personal hardship for any of the senior managers involved in this scandal ... handing back a gong isn't a big deal.
I'm surprised no one has taken direct action against Venells, imagine your anger if a parent or other loved one had been wrongly jailed or had taken their own life because of a computer issue that was covered up ...
If they wrote crap software then it is down to the purchaser to take legal action/not pay.
Unless Fujitsu gave a firm reassurance their software was infallible then I think it was the PO decison to proesecute and keep the recovered money not Fujitsu's ?
I am posting this again go to 5.30m and look at this womans face and demeanour.
It will move you.
I haven't followed this closely, other than being aware of the scandal and the basic facts when news first broke a few years ago.
I don`t know what the incidence of fraud amongst sub postmasters was prior to the implementation of the Fujitsu software, but it's a fair assumption that it was very low and following the software change the rate increased markedly. What troubles me is the reaction and inferences drawn by senior management at the Post Office when this happened, did they assume that fraud had been rife and was now being detected frequently? Surely someone should have challenged the statistics and questioned whether the increase really was valid, to me it seems logical to question the validity of the data in a situation like this, especially when this data is used as evidence to bring a prosecution?
Despite what appears to be serious shortcomings I doubt whether there's a mechanism for holding anyone to account over this even though their actions were negligent. Could a class action be brought to sue individuals?........I`ve no idea, my understanding of the law is limited to say the least.
Paula Venels handing her gong back makes no difference to anything, the damage has been done and the clock can`t be turned back. Hopefully the folks affected will get compensation without further delay, this should've happened already.
Probably the same as in industry - when you are pushing for incompltete/incorrect work to be remediated and the boss doesn't want to pursue it..........................
a big brown envelope means you can't push too hard.
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