Throwing yourself into corners like a battering ram doesn't make you a good driver though does it, Lewis has had to avoid collisions with Max too many times this year, next year I think Lewis should just hold his line and stop bailing Max out of impending contact/crashes.Originally Posted by Daveya.
That said I like Max and I think he'll mature into a very good driver..
I can't disagree MV driving has been questionable at times , but it's bit much to suggest that first corner was a 'battering ram' .
Other instances yes of course, the guy pushes things to far. But not that first corner, that was racing
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I dont see that first corner like that, surely when you take a line into a corner you have to keep to that line while alongside the driver your trying to overtake, he had so much speed he needed the whole corner to stay on track within the white lines, what was Lewis supposed to do? He had to take avoiding action off the track to stop a certain crash.
Its all history now but next year will be interesting as long as Lewis still wants the 8th title?
That's not the same as the hyperbole 'battering ram'
It's hard to defend some aspects of MV driving , no issue there
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Max had the fastest car - based on qualifying.
Hamilton was simply faster off the line in to T1. Max made his standard “send it” move, but Hamilton was wise to it, bailed out, just as Max could have done in Silverstone, and retained his place.
After that Hamilton Mediums tyres were always going to beat the RBR unless Horner got his miracle moment which he did via Masi.
Say what you like, but even you must deep down must recognise the the best driver today was Hamilton. That said Max and his dad are world champs for the next 12 months. Huzzah.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Being a rugby guy, I hope that everybody just shakes hands and moves on, disappointed as some might be.
I expect that Mercedes appeal will be quietly dropped in the coming weeks, with promises to review the sporting code to remove the ambiguity and the possibility of the race director unduly influencing the race. Oh, and Masi to quietly depart.
Hamilton was pole. As Brundle said, there was a door open and Max drove through it, was a racing incident. I'm not defending MV from criticism over incidents during the season. But that's racing, and he won the race today.
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The dice rolled and Max got lucky today, although Red Bull certainly made excellent use of the strategy opportunities that opened up to them and Perez played a blinder as wingman.
Safety cars can turn a race into a farce and today was no different except that the FIA appear to have bent the rules to suit Max (not for the first time this season).
The Silverstone incident is what happens when a driver always refuses to give any space every time he is being overtaken or overtaking (as seen yet again today). It was a racing incident at worst and Max only had himself to blame for ending up in the wall.
And collisions like Silverstone would have happened much more often if Lewis hadn't been behind in the championship in the later part of the season. Instead Lewis had to go off the track countless times to avoid a collision or otherwise risk losing the championship through a DNF.
Max had his own set of rules and any other driver would have been punished much more severely this season. The worst being Saudi Arabia where apparently slowing to a ridiculously unsafe speed in the middle of a straight, then moving towards the middle of the track, looking in your mirror to see your opponent is directly behind you and slamming your brakes on only warrants a token 10 second penalty.
I wouldn't have had a problem with Max winning the title in this lucky way if he hadn't driven like such a t*** this season. Clearly he is a driver of great talent and he should be a blessing for the sport but what we're seeing now isn't racing anymore, it's wacky races.
The FIA need to solve the issue of highly inconsistent Stewarding that can clearly be influenced by the need to create a show, otherwise this is no longer a sport it's WWE.
Last edited by watchcollector1; 12th December 2021 at 22:24.
I really hope so. He is young and let's face it in our twenties many of us likely sometimes acted in ways that we now cringe at (just not on a race track with hundreds of millions watching).
Whilst he was never as bad as Max is now (although the haters will disagree), Lewis has clearly matured and mellowed on and off the track over the years (although winning 7 championships probably helped too).
[QUOTE] The Silverstone incident is what happens when a driver always refuses to give any space every time he is being overtaken or overtaking (as seen yet again today). It was a racing incident at worst and Max only had himself to blame for ending up in the wall.[/QUOTE]
If LH had no blame, he would not have had a penalty in Silverstone. A ruling he didn't fight. Had he been innocent, he would have done so. And about 'dirty racing' (paraphrasing here): how is it possible that none who are on the track with both LH and MV week after week, hoped that LH would win the title today (again except for those on Mercedes' future payroll). When his peers/colleagues would consider MV a danger, then they would not vote for him. It looks like LH has no goodwill-factor among his colleague anymore. Even VB made way for MV when he started chasing LH. (Mexico).
Yep, I drove like an idiot in my early 20's I'm ashamed to say.
I think one of the reasons for his gungho attitude is that he hasn't done many of the formulas, he was in F3 for a year and fast tracked to F1, normally its a lot slower process getting to F1.
Be interesting as I read somewhere that Mercedes this year have really been concentrating on next years car rather than pour money into an old design??
That finish was a clusterfcuk and the officials should be sacked.
I know it’s within the Rules but Red Bull even had Perez to hold Hamilton up. Lewis still is and probably the best F1 driver ever, he as proved it time after time just hope is the hunger to go after that eighth title, because that will never be bettered in F1 as we know it.
Here's an interesting piece I found on a Dutch website:
Translated:Vorig jaar december heeft energiebedrijf INEOS (van de Britse zakenman Sir Jim Ratcliffe) voor veel geld van Daimker een 33,33% belang overgenomen in het Mercedes F1-team.
De beide andere eigenaren zijn nu: Daimler (33,33%) en Mercedes-teamchef Toto Wolff (33,33%).
Bij Sir Jim Ratcliffe is in december 2020 de verwachting gewekt dat hij mede-eigenaar werd van
een "onoverwinnelijk kampioensteam". Dat laatste blijkt nu niet het geval.
De inkomsten uit merchandising en andere commerciële activiteiten zullen hierdoor fors dalen.
Het is dus begrijpelijk dat het team van Mercedes er ALLES aan doet om het kampioenschap alsnog binnen te harken.
'Last December, Ineos (of British entrepreneur Sir Jim Ratcliffe) took a 33.33% interest in the Mercedes F1 team and paid a lot of money for it. The other owners are Daimler (33.33%) and Toto Wolff (33.33%).
Sir Jim Ratcliffe was told that he'd become co-owner of an 'invincible champions team'. However, this is now not the case. The revenues from merchandising and other commercial activities are likely to drop. It's therefore fair to assume that the Mercedes team will do EVERYTHING to become the champion.
I don't have the proper source, but I'm working on that.
That is the truth.
Not fair to either teams or drivers, who did nothing wrong.
Fair is fair and that ending was not.
I don't really get the point of that. Mercedes have a new shareholder therfore they must be cheating? It's hardly Watergate is it.
I didn't write 'cheating' or anything else that's not allowed. And the article doesn't mention cheating. I paint a background why Mercedes - or Toto Wolff - will go great lengths to obtain the World Title.
Last edited by thieuster; 13th December 2021 at 07:52.
And I suppose Dietrich Mateschitz doesn’t want his pound of flesh from Red Bull Racing?
Honestly, ownership has little to do with it, and I expect the results will stand.
Mercedes have got the WCC, and whilst not getting the WDC will be painful especially in the circumstances, I wouldn’t be surprised to see the appeal dropped and focus move to next years championship, which isn’t far away.
RBR will have something to prove next year as well, they’ll want to show that they don’t need controversy or ‘the hand of Masi’ to win.
Hopefully it will be another spectacular season, but with fewer controversial stewards decisions.
This makes no sense?
I get he is 'your boy', but Mercedes have had it for the last 7 years, it's not like they have missed out.
As for this being about 'merch' - really?.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
If neither had stayed Max would still have won the championship…
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Best of three after that if Max wins?
(Sorry only joking!)
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
[QUOTE=thieuster;5892233]I am not sure he would have. Despite the penalty he was still the winnerThe Silverstone incident is what happens when a driver always refuses to give any space every time he is being overtaken or overtaking (as seen yet again today). It was a racing incident at worst and Max only had himself to blame for ending up in the wall.[/QUOTE]
If LH had no blame, he would not have had a penalty in Silverstone. A ruling he didn't fight. Had he been innocent, he would have done so. And about 'dirty racing' (paraphrasing here): how is it possible that none who are on the track with both LH and MV week after week, hoped that LH would win the title today (again except for those on Mercedes' future payroll). When his peers/colleagues would consider MV a danger, then they would not vote for him. It looks like LH has no goodwill-factor among his colleague anymore. Even VB made way for MV when he started chasing LH. (Mexico).
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Showing the race for free today may backfire. Some peeps may sign up for next years challenge, other (like me ) won’t be subscribing again to this farce.
I zoned out a bit with the circus once the FIA awarded the half points for a few show laps.
Sad day for the sport.
I will say MV is clearly talented and this won’t be the last. The victory will always have a cloud though for me, he was well beaten today.
Err is that not the business model of all teams?
But is he really?
Or is it the machinery that helps him? And inferior team mates making him look like a hero?
He did loose out to Rosberg in 2016 and to Jenson earlier in his career.
Will be interesting to see what happens with Russel next year.
Both Lewis and Max eclipsed their team mates this year. I guess that is the point of having a clear no2 driver…
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Last edited by Ar.parask; 12th December 2021 at 23:32.
No different from the last 8 seasons at Mercedes then or Red Bull or any other team fighting for any position in the championship.
It's extremely tenuous. Red Bull would be making exactly the same protest in the same situation.
On a separate note…..
I wonder if after this Lewis will be quite as motivated?…he’s amassed 300+ million won 7 WDC and has a life outside of F1 nothing more to prove and after yesterday might justifiably be thinking …’can i be arsed’ ?….”do i want to swap paint with Max every fortnight” ?.
Next season new car new regs 18 inch wheels which will all be interesting but he will also have George Russell instead of Botas and lets be honest Russell will be way more feisty than Botas and might even out qualify or even beat Hamilton on race day..
So does Hamilton do something else like Mansell did ?….have a go at Indycar which he could excel at and no doubt even win….
Or just sit on a beach with a cool beer ?.
This is a good point. If I were him I'd be thinking "I've got 300mil in my back pocket, I've won 7 titles, and in all but a technicality I've won an 8th, so what the heck".
But then I'm not him with his drive, competitive nature, talent, skill etc. And that's why I'm where I am and he's where he is so what do I know.
Last edited by Ruggertech; 13th December 2021 at 11:09.
I suspect he'll be back and eager to win again in 2022.
M
Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?
Hopefully he will end up winning this season, disgrace!!!
He would win another 7 championships. No doubt.So does Hamilton do something else like Mansell did ?….have a go at Indycar which he could excel at and no doubt even win….
Was listening to an article on BBC sounds regarding how attendances are up, subscriptions the same, younger audience involvement and social media coverage etc. All of which were the goals of Liberty media on their appointment. Kind of get rid of the "stuffy old boys club" that it was under Bernie.
Don't know whether yesterdays fiasco was part of that plan (older historical watchers like me being put off) to get more media involvement again (even bigger audience)
Or was it shooting yourself in the foot?? Because the forums all over the internet basically can't believe what happened.
Max is a massively talented driver who will win more championships but yesterday was wrong because of a team of stewards who basically bowed down to one mans emotional input. He needs to fall on his sword, he is far to emotional for that role, it needs somebody who is black and white, no grey areas.
Anyway congrats to Redbull and Max. Merc need to move on and forget the appeal (easy for me to say that :-) Lewis unlucky mate was really rooting for you. Come back next year and get it on again.
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He has too much drive to quit with new rules. We had a fantastic day at the track and managed to see the overtake too. One to remember regardless.
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Not a big fan of F1, but watched last couple of races as I got caught up in the hype, from an outsider looking in yesterday's finale looked morally corrupt. I know people will argue things occured within the rules, but it certainly does not look like a 'sport' with integrity.
Again from the outside appears that emotions, or something more sinister off the track, can determine the results on it.
Bet you had a great day! One to remember definitely.
As I said, I'm where I am because I don't have his drive, talent or skill, so I shouldn't really try to second guess him.
Brilliant , was that the Hamilton watch company head office
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Ha!
Good to see people enjoying themselves.
Doesn't look, though, as if many people there had any idea what was actually going on during that lap. There was nothing to cheer: Masi had royally screwed LCH, and any F1 driver from the past decade put in that RBR would have won with that tyre differential, including Mazepin with Covid.
He claimed in his sarcastic response to Woolfe that he'd done it for 'racing', but no racing was involved. Purely marketing.
I can't believe that any driver steward would have pulled that stunt. Masi is said to know a lot about F1, but he forgot it all there.
A thoroughly distasteful end to a great season. Masi is a disgrace and the FIA need to have a hard, long look at themselves (but won’t)
There’s a twitter post circulating that explains this in football terms. Lewis was winning 5-0 then the ref says next goal wins & Max scores a goal. It’s the most appropriate way of explaining what happened
Is this advice also an option for Toto and Mercedes?
Wonder if Ferrari protested ?
Er, no…….
FTFY
Lol!
Even in the German press you can read that Toto Wolff / Mercedes is acting like a bad loser.
"Durch den Protest erhält der Stern aber immense Kratzer.“
According to the British Press, but who cares...
Most Press outside UK see Verstappen as the deserved winner, if you look at the whole season.
And even Toto Wolff is coming to his senses i understand from bbc.com: Verstappen said: "Toto sent me a text - congratulations on the season and that I deserved to win, that was very nice." The Red Bull driver added: "Lewis is a great sportsman in general."
The rumour is that Mercedes will drop the appeal, at Hamilton’s behest - he wants to win the Championship on track, and not in a court. If true, it shows what a class act he is.
If I was him, I would strike a deal with Russell - be my wingman next year so I can my eighth WDC, then after that I will do everything to help you get your first.
That would be a sensible approach. I’m sure Hamilton would want to win it on the track and not in court. Can’t say the same about RBR though - reckon they would pursue it all the way.
Based on what ??
Mercedes already had a lawyer ready during the race to initiate proceedings.
Not RBR.
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