Reply With QuoteIs the handbag free or is that an extra?
£550 is crazy. Absolutely nuts.
Anyone rushing out to buy a pair of these on release day?
As much as I like my normal AirPods at £549 the Max seems very strong money to upgrade.
AirPods-Max
Is the handbag free or is that an extra?
£550 is crazy. Absolutely nuts.
If they come with an enema they worth it
I'm a self confessed Apple fan and I've spent a lot on trying out various headphones in the past so I had very much been waiting for these to launch. I ordered them straight away as stock usually sells out fast and I've just noticed that they are supposedly out of stock online for up to three months now but no doubt there will stock in store on launch day. However I'm definitely having second thoughts on them already given their price so if they're anything less totally amazing I'll be taking my Space Grey pair back for a full refund!
But these aren’t really ‘AirPods’, are they?Originally Posted by Mr_Mac
How much do Bose et al charge for a decent set of wireless, noise reducing headphones?
About £200 less.
As an example I have the AirPod Pros and Bose QC35ii for about the same price as these...bonkers.
Usually when a new model comes out from the likes of Bose and Sony etc. they're initially priced at £350 but can usually be found discounted after the initial launch has died down. So even with the Apple premium tax there's another £200 added. Of course no one has actually heard them yet so they could well outperform the usual suspects and they have to really to justify their price.
Can they do lossless audio over wireless? Price isn’t outrageous for a pair of high end headphones, but they better smash it sound quality wise.
I paid £270 (ie half price) for my Shure Aonic 50s - and they have been superb so far including with multi device. Have to be damn special to be worth the money.
What it does do however is raise the price ceiling on high end wireless headphones. Not good, they are pricey as it is.....
Only a few weeks ago Google were giving out free Bose QC35 II's with their new phones which cost either £499 or £599 depending on which you went for (4a 5G & 5).
Imagine buying a brand new 5G phone and a pair of Bose QC35 II for exactly £50 less than the new Apple headphones in the same category.
I think computational audio is perhaps the differentiator, similar to computational photography. It sounds (aha!) like a gimmick, but I suspect that just like its use in photography, it will become mainstream in audio soon enough.
While this is already used in the airpod pros, these "max" versions seem to have an Apple H1 10-core processor in each of the left and right channels, rather than a single one doing duty for both channels. This chip includes 3-axis accelerometers and combined with those of your idevice, it can center the sound (and emulate "surround") even when moving your device or head, to give a better experience when watching a film or chatting on video calls.
For music, I believe the mic on the inside of the earcup measures what sound is actually happening (which is dependent upon your ear shape, how tight you wear the phones, and environmental factors) and compares it to the input signal, the H1 DSP adjusting it in real time. The dual H1 chips (which include within them the Bluetooth 5 receiver) should also ensure the left/right dropout sometimes experienced with wireless headsets is reduced.
Just conjecture, be interesting to hear them. I consider my now-ancient Sennheiser HD650s the best audio product I ever bought, and that's an area that makes my watch and photography equipment sprees look sensible. I am not convinced with Bluetooth for hi-if as yet, preferring my sounds uncompressed and wired where possible (I use my HD650s exclusively with an ipod classic and Apple Lossless files).
But, like those "traditional" high quality digital cameras facing the "technically inferior" iphones, I suspect the computational aspect may prove capable of making a lot from a very little.
We shall see. Or rather, hear
Cancel it and get the Sony 1000xm4’s.
To be fair having just bought some AirPod pros this surround effect is pretty incredible and having not read a lot of the gumpf, came as a surprise to me. They are impressive little buds!!I think computational audio is perhaps the differentiator, similar to computational photography. It sounds (aha!) like a gimmick, but I suspect that just like its use in photography, it will become mainstream in audio soon enough.
While this is already used in the airpod pros, these "max" versions seem to have an Apple H1 10-core processor in each of the left and right channels, rather than a single one doing duty for both channels. This chip includes 3-axis accelerometers and combined with those of your idevice, it can center the sound (and emulate "surround") even when moving your device or head, to give a better experience when watching a film or chatting on video calls.
For music, I believe the mic on the inside of the earcup measures what sound is actually happening (which is dependent upon your ear shape, how tight you wear the phones, and environmental factors) and compares it to the input signal, the H1 DSP adjusting it in real time. The dual H1 chips (which include within them the Bluetooth 5 receiver) should also ensure the left/right dropout sometimes experienced with wireless headsets is reduced.
Just conjecture, be interesting to hear them. I consider my now-ancient Sennheiser HD650s the best audio product I ever bought, and that's an area that makes my watch and photography equipment sprees look sensible. I am not convinced with Bluetooth for hi-if as yet, preferring my sounds uncompressed and wired where possible (I use my HD650s exclusively with an ipod classic and Apple Lossless files).
But, like those "traditional" high quality digital cameras facing the "technically inferior" iphones, I suspect the computational aspect may prove capable of making a lot from a very little.
We shall see. Or rather, hear
I may well do as it was between those or the Bose 700s, in a fetching shade of blue, which are almost exactly half the price of the AirPods Max. In fact I even remember having a pair Oppo PM3 planar magnetic headphones which I got from Richer Sounds for less than £350 but just much prefer wireless now even with the sound quality trade off that brings. The Max's will have to be truly special in order to keep them.
With some canny shopping I think in total my 2nd gen AirPods for everyday use, Bose QC20’s for plane journeys & Bose QC35’s the house came in way less than £500.
I just had these delivered. They have active noise cancelling, adjust to your ear canal and each bud connects separately and then meshes to reduce risk of drop out. They do all the usual stuff as well
The are best sounding ear buds and rival many full size premium headphones I have used in the past.
Price less that £300!
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I’ll be giving them a miss, having to take my AirPod pros back to the store as the noise cancelling simply isn’t working and seems to be a big issue hence Apple doing a repair/recall program on them...
Shame I had to look online and search for the issue instead of Apple letting me know...
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And now sold out until March 2021 in the US https://www.techradar.com/news/where-to-buy-airpods-max
I have some on order and look forward to seeing what they are like. I also have a set of boss 700s which I got last week which I love.
Just checked space grey is 12 week back order and other colours approx Jan.
Last edited by shoppy; 9th December 2020 at 17:50.
And some people think certain watch brands are canny investments...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Airpods-M...EAAOSwWUJf0Mk3
This.. easily the best sub £500 noise cancelling headphones out there. If you want a even bigger bargain, then the xm3's can be picked up for a decent price.
Last edited by zippy; 10th December 2020 at 19:08.
The price looks insane to me but I am impressed with the computational audio if that’s what they use in the HomePod and HomePod mini. The HomePod mini in particular is ridiculously loud, controlled amd capable for its tiny size - I’m not sure it’s hi-if, but my elderly mum wouldn’t believe all that sound was coming from something smaller than a tennis ball!
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The price is high but as with all things Apple, what they offer is a little different to the competition, so the prices can’t be compared directly: https://www.whathifi.com/features/he...-bose-and-sony
I did order a pair, which I’ll keep if they live up to the hype. It helps that they’re a business expense, I’ll be using them when working from home. The noise cancelling should help tune out any distractions, particularly my partner’s astonishingly loud typing when she’s working from home too. I’ve read reviews of some of the other highly rated headphones, and after raving about the sound quality, they slip in that the sound sometimes cuts out or it won’t connect etc. If I’m editing a film (on my Apple system), that can’t happen. It has to work perfectly, with no lag or setup issues, and be a pleasure to use every time, so these make sense to me even if they’re a couple of hundred extra. I guess I’ll find out in January.
Every time Apple launch a new product it gets compared to cheaper alternatives in an attempt to suggest they've got it wrong. More often than not they go on to set a standard that others follow in months and years to come.
This is true, it's just a bit shocking when the cheaper alternatives this time are class and price leading from top tier companies like Bose and Sony.
Indeed, same was said when AirPods launched and cost more than wired and better audio quality alternatives. People put their higher quality headphones in a drawer and bought AirPods to replace them.
There are a lot of people who own an iPhone, Mac, iPad, etc and happily spend £250+ on headphones and then replace them every few years, who will rush to the new Max's if they sound good. You'll also see footballers and celebs wearing them. You'll then see a rush for them as a fashion statement (hence the colour options, IMO).
This is a well trodden path for Apple, they know the game.
Yep, the mistake is to think Apple is a technology company, it isn't. It's a marketing company.
I remember when airpods first came out, they were laughed at but then 6 months passed and everyone had to have them. It was a status symbol. ASOS even sell a fake plastic pair which aren't even headphones for £8 which sold out just to have the look.
I have some QC35 II's and the only time I use them is on the Xbox plugged it or on a plane. 95% of the time I use my Jabra 75t's. Sound isn't as good as the Bose but they can't rival the convenience.
Have a pair of AirPod Pro. Fantastic piece of kit. Love them.
I previously owned some Sony MDX1000 NC 'phones and two different models of Bose NC 'phones. They were all fine, although the Sony seemed to heat my ears up making them uncomfortable after a while. A bit pointless having excellent sound if you find the headphones unwearable.
But what is missing from these, excellent though they are, is the proprietary H1 Apple chip. The instant pairing, and re-pairing as you move from iphone to ipad or apple TV, is very useful if you have any of those devices. That alone might be a genuine and sufficient reason for some to prefer the Apple (or Beats, some of which have the same chip) over the well-reviewed Sony and Bose. Add in the NC and computational audio, including 7.1 and Dolby Atmos support, and you find a total proposition likely unmatched elsewhere.
I own a Bose pair still and it's fine for travel, I am just speculating as to why "buy the Sony/Bose!" isn't necessarily a slam dunk recommendation. It's the H1!
Mind blowing, yet amazing.
Re marketing...
This report is from 2018 - older data shows Apple consistently spending less than its peers on advertising. They gain great marketing exposure for little outlay by having few products and thus the update or introduction of models creates its own community fanfare. Including threads like this one.According to Thomson Reuters data, Samsung spends a larger proportion of its annual revenue, 5.4%, on advertising and promotion than any of the world’s top 20 companies. This year, Samsung is forecasted to spend ~ $US 14 billion on advertising and marketing.
Apple spends just $US1 billion on advertising in comparison. In contrast Samsung’s global brand value is 50% less than rival Apple, despite spending strikingly more on advertising.
Paul
if it’s Bluetooth connectivity I would think there may be slight delay issues. I have only seen radio connections (Jabra professional headphones etc) that remove this. I need to read up on these Apple cans though.
You’re right, for critical work the optional cable may help (an extra cost naturally). Surprising I’ve found I can do rough edits using normal airpods, but you’d want to check the sync afterwards. For normal video playback, I believe the system delays the video so it’s in sync with the headphones.
I think I'll stick with my B&O E8 series 3.0s for wireless duties and Sennheiser HD 6XX for 'proper' listening at home.
The combined price of those are still less than the Apple handbag-phones
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I'm certainly not interested in these, but I like the reviews/videos this chap does. Thought it might be interesting some on here...
https://youtu.be/UdfSrJvqY_E
Hi slightly OT but am an Apple user so reading with interest. Also can't believe the price! I haven't used my HD650 or headphone amps for a long tome now, are you using a portable amp with them and your iPod out of interest? I'm using either Sony 1000xm2, M&D MW50 (bargain £90 new last month) or Jabra 65E if travelling light. Convenience and Apple Music/BBC6 has beaten me.I think computational audio is perhaps the differentiator, similar to computational photography. It sounds (aha!) like a gimmick, but I suspect that just like its use in photography, it will become mainstream in audio soon enough.
While this is already used in the airpod pros, these "max" versions seem to have an Apple H1 10-core processor in each of the left and right channels, rather than a single one doing duty for both channels. This chip includes 3-axis accelerometers and combined with those of your idevice, it can center the sound (and emulate "surround") even when moving your device or head, to give a better experience when watching a film or chatting on video calls.
For music, I believe the mic on the inside of the earcup measures what sound is actually happening (which is dependent upon your ear shape, how tight you wear the phones, and environmental factors) and compares it to the input signal, the H1 DSP adjusting it in real time. The dual H1 chips (which include within them the Bluetooth 5 receiver) should also ensure the left/right dropout sometimes experienced with wireless headsets is reduced.
Just conjecture, be interesting to hear them. I consider my now-ancient Sennheiser HD650s the best audio product I ever bought, and that's an area that makes my watch and photography equipment sprees look sensible. I am not convinced with Bluetooth for hi-if as yet, preferring my sounds uncompressed and wired where possible (I use my HD650s exclusively with an ipod classic and Apple Lossless files).
But, like those "traditional" high quality digital cameras facing the "technically inferior" iphones, I suspect the computational aspect may prove capable of making a lot from a very little.
We shall see. Or rather, hear
I have used the HD650 with many Japanese amps (Denon, Pioneer, Onkyo) and also a Little Dot Mk3 tube headphone amp. But the ipod (it's a classic gen, with an internal SSD) wasn't improvable. Some pics and info https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...=1#post5610350
I think the HD650s have been such a good purchase because they have lasted so long, and through so many upgrades of my other equipment. I am not sure that Bluetooth speakers, of any type, will age as well.
Back on topic. I am interested in the H1-equipped headphones because of the convenience (Bluetooth pairing/unpairing is a bind) and the potential for using them in my home theatre for Atmos support from my Apple TV.
But... the expense is a lot for something that I suspect may not last as long as the Sennheisers. And those still sound amazing.
But in what scenario is one so intently listening for audiophile-quality sound whilst moving your head and/or device??? Even when jogging, it is highly valuable to be able to hear outside noise - therefore the notion of audiophile quality sound is secondary. Apple seem to be answering a question that no one has asked?
For watching films, as mentioned. The computational audio accepts a Dolby 7.1 or Atmos signal such as those accompanying films on Apple TV, and emulates surround sound, including height. Some people spend a lot on their home theatre setups to achieve this, so there may be a market.
edit: from an early review:
Others have found using the computational audio for music works well too, presenting a "stage" that remains in front of you, rather than inside your head.The real star of our testing so far has been with spatial audio when watching TV shows or movies. The best way to describe the experience is that the AirPods Max feel like a home theater system for your head. ... Watching “The Mandalorian,” you’ll hear a cruiser zooming past from the left side, starting in the distance behind you and zooming past you
(I'm merely interested in the tech, not a buyer)
Last edited by Tokyo Tokei; 11th December 2020 at 14:54.
I get the point of surround sound with movies, but I don't understand the value of adjusting the spatial sound and ANC when the listener is moving to compensate? (or have I got this completely wrong?)
I'm with you on this, and I haven't heard it, so I don't really know. I understood (I think...) that by keeping the "soundstage" projected in front and around you, independent from the movement of your head, it sounds more like a musical performance (or cinema) than the squirt-it-between-your-ears traditional headphone system.
At least Apple is offering something (Atmos, computational audio, instant pairing and seamless handoff between devices, decent build and design, their own H1 chips) for your considerable money. Worth it to some, I can well imagine.
But Apple has had misses before with audio. The Homepod didn't fly off the shelves, and there was that thing they made years ago for your ipod to dock with, that they quickly abandoned. Time will tell on these, but my feeling is they will find a market.
It has some interesting features. But the whole Atmos thing is nothing new. I've been using Dolby Atmos for Headphones with my Xbox for years now in games and it works really well. I guess linking them to Apple tv is useful as long as you are the sole watcher. The case is just looks shit though for normal" bung it in your bag use" and the fact that it is the only thing (afaik) that turns them off is even dumber imho. As just headphones for on the go audio they are pretty pricey compared to the Sony's I have.
Actually that’s a good feature I think, they turn themselves on when you put them on, the rest of the time they automatically go into an extremely low power standby mode, much the same as Apple’s keyboards, mice and trackpads (which you can turn off manually if you really want, but it’s not worth the bother in practice). One less button to fiddle with, you just pick them up and use them, much like normal airpods.
Exactly.
Apple seems to make lifelong items into disposable items unfortunately.
Sennheisers would last a lifetime, these won’t.
Rolex would last a lifetime, Apple Watch won’t.
Their tech just isn’t as sustainable as they lead you to believe.
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So in a time of incredibly rapid technological change, a computer or a phone is supposed to be a lifelong possession? Or is it perhaps better that they keep improving?
I know many will begin throwing large stones / rocks at me but I cannot stand and simply cannot understand the blind loyalty to Apple. I have had Apple phones as work phones for years and my personal phones have always been on android. I don't like the UI, Work mobiles have required service / repair / new batteries / screens whereas my personal phone hasn't. My personal phone probably has a harder life and higher usage. So when I saw the pricing of these headphones I did wonder what the appetite would be for them.
In real world terms the Sony XM's and also the Bose are consistently top of any group tests so the Apple headphones need to be something very special. They are nearly 50% more than the Sonys, I'll be gob smacked if they are 50% better!!!
The fanboys and teens will continue to support the brand I'm sure, good luck to them, I'd be putting my money in another brand, most likely the Sonys, possibly Bose or Sennheiser and pocketing a decent wedge of change!
Paul
Logged into Headfi but there does not seem to be any early reviews.
I doubt these will be great, the airpods pro are not for audio, they do have their use for short runs and work calls.
While i disliked the Sony's (Current best) they are leagues above Bose. ( My dislike for the Sony's is due to my normal listening IEM's & headphones, ony plain journey's i rather use the IEM's than ANC headphones)
Well done to the only marketing company that can take on Martin Sorrell. The demand they have created W/ profit margins is outstanding .
Allow me to throw a stone or two... The Sony and the Bose don’t have the same features, they’re not made of aluminium, and you can’t put them on and have them seamlessly start playing the movie on your iPad / Apple TV in Dolby Atmos. Is that worth a couple of hundred pounds premium? Yes and no, it depends on how much you enjoy those things. But it’s well within the range of deciding to treat yourself to something you consider a bit special, if that’s your thing. It’s also partly about being in the Apple ecosystem, and wanting things that work seamlessly with it. For instance, you would hope to be able to talk to Siri while you’re wearing them, or to send a phone call from your iPhone, and it would be a little annoying if you couldn’t. Apple aren’t perfect and they are expensive, but the ecosystem works pretty well.
Since this is a watch forum, it’s worth mentioning that I was looking at a lovely vintage Seiko that costs about the same this morning, and if I’d bought it and posted some pictures I’m pretty sure everyone would think that was money well spent. But spend the same on headphones and you’re a fanboy. You’d think people here would get the idea of spending an unjustifiable amount of money on something that makes you happy!
Last edited by Itsguy; 13th December 2020 at 19:48.
Apologies for my delayed response. Why do I need Atmos built in to my headphones?? Is it not built in to your phone? I genuinely don't know if it's a feature available on all apple phones.
My current android phone and last one both had Dolby Atmos built in.
You're welcome to spend your money on whatever you want of course. I still like quality items, I probably spend more on some items than other people i.e. on sunglasses and get the "why would you spend £xxx on sunglasses when you can get foster grants for £10".
My point, was that Apple need to really be pushing the boundaries on all that has been mentioned for their price differential to be justifiable. As I'm not signed up to the Apple eco-system I'm questioning why I'd buy their product ove the Sony's, Bose, Sennheiser, AKGs etc etc.
As with everything I'm sure they'll be tested by the usual YouTube stations and it'll be interesting to see how they perform. I'm sure they will put in a solid performance but as per my original post, are they worth almost double? To some maybe......
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Of course it’s hard to argue they’re worth double. They have some unique features, so if you really care about those features it may be worth it as you won’t get them anywhere else. Reviews are suggesting they’re as good or better than the competition in every aspect (apart from the case!) with build quality easily beating the rest, though at the cost of higher weight. While the extra features are hard to price, there’s no question they’re extremely expensive headphones. As with all things luxurious, when you approach the limits, a little bit of improvement will cost a whole lot more. Most people would be better off waiting for a cheaper version. Being on the bleeding edge of technology is always an expensive hobby - remember how much 4K TVs used to cost?
NB - on Dolby Atmos, I don’t think a phone can genuinely have Dolby Atmos, which requires seven speakers and a sub, arranged all around you with two height channels above your head, allowing object based audio to appear to come from pretty much any direction. Maybe a phone can have more speakers than stereo, or send Atmos to an amplifier, but it can’t really play it. Headphones that simulate the effect are a neat trick. Not a completely new trick, but apparently they do it well. One negative though - sadly the current generation of Apple TV can’t do it, as it doesn’t have the location sensing chip needed. So that will no doubt mean spending even more upgrading to a new model of Apple TV.
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