Reply With QuoteIf that's all that has happened in six months of ownership, it sounds like you got a good one!
Afternoon All,
I moved to the country and bought a 1995 LR Defender 90 this summer. Whilst I've enjoyed the simplicity and the general driving experience, I'm getting quite tired of things breaking and falling off the bloody thing.
For example, I needed to replace the thermostat, but rounded off a bolt on the thermostat housing. That then needed a new stud extractor for my socket set. Fine, I thought, so bought one online including a new bolt. Came to fit and no problem, but for some reason LR decided that the header tank would be ideally located at the same level as the top of the engine, so refilling the cooling system and bleeding requires two plastic bleed screws to be opened. Except they didn't, as one sheared off still stuck in the radiator, and another one on the thermostat housing wouldn't screw back in because the thread stripped. So, off to the internet again and another wait for some brass replacements. In total, the £2.82 thermostat took 7 days to sort and about £25 in extra bits.
I was also driving in the snow on Friday and a windscreen wiper arm just fell off! Cue another wait for the postman..
Oh, and there was the new battery that when I went to fit, had no bracket anywhere to secure it and about 2mm clearance from the +ve terminal to the metal body.
There are other bits and pieces too, all in less than 6 months of ownership of a supposedly 'sorted' LR.
I've been thinking that an older G Wagon might give me some three-way lockable diff action, with a funky check interior to boot, for a lot less hassle and a lot less parts falling off. Or am I kidding myself?? Any experiences of G ownership welcome.
If that's all that has happened in six months of ownership, it sounds like you got a good one!
It’s 25 years old. I dare say a similarly aged G-Wagen will have less day to day issues, but could still go wrong and will be more complicated. Not looked at prices recently but I would be surprised if they weren’t top dollar
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Even older G-wagens are relatively rare and seem to hold their values and are very expensive for what they are...
Personally I would opt for an older SWB/3 door Landcruiser (70 series) - has the rugged no-nonsense driving feel of the Defender at a fraction of the cost and with decent reliability (once sorted). However, at their age, rust may be a major concern.
I remember working for a Mercedes dealer in the early 80s. The longer-serving sales people there told me about the launch of the G-Wagen a few years earlier. The dealership decided to have a launch event and so, in an effort to demonstrate its off-road abilities to the invitees, they hired a local quarry. All went well until a couple of them got stuck and they ended up having to tow them out with a Land Rover Series 3.
As others have alluded, the G-Wagen is like other Mercedes, very well screwed together. However, they're very expensive to put right should they go wrong.
They must have been doing something wrong... a G wagon has front centre and rear locking diffs.. it would eat a land rover defender for breakfast in the off-road stakes..Originally Posted by BSB
Yep, the G Wagon is an amazing bit of kit, beautifully engineerd and takes some beating, except when it comes to availability and pricing of spares. Here the Landie wins hands down.
Both are very capable in the right hands.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Over the years I’ve been to several try other brand events and been to quite a few AWD club and SCOR events I can honestly say I’ve never been anywhere in a G Wagon that I haven't been in a Defender.
I saw a beautiful 18 plate G63 parked next to us at our local national trust place. All black with a tan, quilted interior. I was just having a nose when the owners turned up but fortunately they were quite amiable.
I knew they were quite pricey but was slightly shocked to see it would have bee a six figure vehicle to buy even a few years old!
I watched super SUV build or something like that and they said a Gelände Wagon takes 7 times longer to make than any other Mercedes. They are all hand built.
One other interesting fact. All the glass is perfectly flat so it can be replaced by almost anything Perspex or such like should you need to out in the wild.
One of my favourite cars, but silly money now.
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Whilst having great sympathy with the OP, I must admit to laughing out loud at the tale. It sounds like the clown car at the circus! I haven't owned a car for years, and couldn't tell most modern ones apart. My past experience of Land Rovers was of the camouflaged variety back in the 70s and 80s, and I have to say that as carelessly as we drove them, they were very hard to break, and if they did break it was usually the half shafts. I still take an interest in cars to an extent, and whenever any tale of a Land Rover comes up, there is usually someone popping their head over the parapet shortly after to recommend a Toyota. This happens too often to be a coincidence.
The guy I had my v8 land cruiser off had replaced the Toyota with a brand new g63 amg wagon. Carbon pack. Looked great
He paid £150k for it but said he preferred the ride and solidity of the land cruiser more
Share one thing in common. Both extremely overpriced for what they are.
Aren't they all now? Is this due to the hire purchase-ish options people now have. I often hear people forward the argument that it is so much cheaper to rent a car, but someone is paying the price, and it's not the dealer.
I can comment on this with some knowledge as I've had a couple of G's and a few Defenders in the past. At the age of car you're looking at there is no safe/cheap option - even with good service records things will break on both, the only difference is the plentiful parts and specialist availability on Defender versus the VERY specialist parts and service on a G. It was cheaper to buy another G, strip it for parts for mine and sell the remainder than buy a new fuel tank when it split. It's a saddle tank that goes over the chassis and in 2005 it was £1500 new for a 1990 model and only available direct for Mercedes. It's not impossible to work on - but some things require special tools and parts are monumentally expensive. I loved the G and would have a G400 Pro with my lottery win but a Defender - for all its' ergonomic flaws and shoddy build quality - will always be the more sensible choice financially especially now that older G's are so expensive because new prices have risen so fast.
All of this is money dependent. You're looking at 25+ years old but for anyone with £35k though, a 2010/11 G is a very solid buy and very reliable in my experience and those of other people I know who have had them.
Somewhat off-topic, but food for thought ?
In the mid 2000's, I owned a Nissan Patrol 3.0 diesel - without doubt, the most reliable vehicle I have ever owned.
It looked very similar to the Shogun of that period, but was cheaper to buy and own, and significantly better built.
Always viewed as the poor-mans 4x4, it did everything I could have asked of it, and cost pennies to maintain.
The G-Wagen has now become a fashion accessory / rappers trinket, which is a shame as they are hugely capable vehicles.
The best "poor man's 4X4" was undoubtedly the Daihatsu Fourtrak.
What a superb, rugged off-roader. Proper workhorse, that was.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
I would personally stick with the devil you know, unless of course you really want the Mercedes, which would then be a justifiable reason to change.
At that age, I would expect parts to need replacing on any car and would budget accordingly.
OP story made me laugh, because I can really visalize it after owning LRs for the last 30 years and hopefully many more years to come.
Thermostat is cheap as chips, the plastic bung is easy to extract and yes, they are too soft, hence the nice brass bungs are availale for 2 Pound 50 or so.
You could even put a winter temperature thermostat in it now and change to a summer/cooler runnuing one in spring. With a bit of non stick coating on the bolts it is a 5 minute job.
Anoying are indeed too cheap aftermarket parts (which will break to quick after replacement) and a feeling that a LR is never be fixed 100% (but it wont let you down much either)
G Wagon with its ECUs can be very troublesome and well beyond DIY or even beyond workshop knowledge.
"Sir, there are thee ECU in your G, one has a duff solder contact, we will have to replace them. 7500 Euro a pop, and no we dont know which of the three is duff" = original story happenend to a friend.
And by the way, no you cant speak with the mechanic in the back, you only speak with the lady at reception in the shiney Mercedes showroom.
No thanks.
But I do have to confess I dislike new cars and with them, I have no patience. My company car is a fully loaded Skoda Superb and after four years the thing packs up on the fancy electric too.
The replacement is overdue, manufacturing delay, Covid & Co., blabla. This modern company car lease is neither sustainable nor better for the environment, but it keeps the car driven economy running.
Oh and my BMW motorcycle is also a pain in the A with its failling ABS pressure modulator (and very expensive to repair).
So in summary, never ever will I let go of the old Land Rovers Just dont get me started on the NEW thing called Defender :-)
Last edited by bmwrover; 9th December 2020 at 18:14.
Thanks everyone for the comments, they're very helpful.
I should have clarified that my 1995 90 was rebuilt onto a galvanised chassis and repainted recently, but it's not the 100% sorted vehicle I thought I was buying.
I forgot about the leaks I had to sort (rear quarter windows, vent flaps, sunroof - which is still ongoing and now freezes then thaws and drips gently on my head), virtually all the dash warning lamps being dead, and various other little maladies that seem to come and go.
Despite all this, I really like driving it, but thought I might like a similar vintage G a little more, given its reputation for being screwed together in a more competent way.
If I can find a late 90s G locally I will definitely take a look, as I'm not sure I can cope with the perpetual painting of the Forth Bridge that seems to come with Defender ownership!
John, the rain ingress is a feature that came will ALL Defender up to 2018.
There is even an official handbook how JLR describes tracing and rectification of water leaks once the vehicles are with the customers.
Usually it drips on the side where my wife sits.
Recently she called me and said there is a real puddle of water on the waterproof seat base :-)
So "its never over in a Rover, but you need a Pullover" is our saying.
Rover on, good luck with either your LR90 or a G.
New Defender & Yeti
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OP’s fallen into the trap of trying to match modern car reliability expectations to a 25 yr old rebuilt motor. The car may have been rebuilt into a new chassis but that doesn’t mean every single item has had attention, especially if the work was done by a commercial concern with the intention to sell the end product. I don’t think the problems are related to the inherent quality of the LR so its hardly a fair comparison, an ageing G wagon could gave just as many problems.
Unless I’d rebuilt it myself I wouldn’t trust any vehicle that was 25 yrs old. Even then, sods law states that the bits you deemed were OK to re- use or not overhaul will prove you wrong.
The G likely had road tyres on, makes all the difference.
It’s funny - my son just turned 20, which doesn’t seem that long ago and it’s funny to think 99% of cars on the road when he was born are probably on the scrap heap by now! You spend all that money on a car and within a relatively short time even the ‘toughest’ versions are so unreliable they rely on an enthusiast with deep pockets to keep them on the road! - makes you realise how environmentally unfriendly the car business is!
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We are drifting a bit OT and into generalization, but they say that the cars (not Land Rover ;-) ) manufactured between 1985 and 1995 are the best, as the dont rust as the earlier ones and dont have the complications as the later ones.
The G wagen locking diffs are the real upgrade over a Defender, but Nissan Patrols also have locking axle diff on the rear.
It is relatively easy to get stuck in a Defender, you only need to be loaded up on diagonals, and you can have 2 free-spinning wheels in the air. I have done it a few times, but only off road on uneven "tracks"
A locking axle diff (not just the centre diff) removes this problem as you ensure a minimum of 3 wheels driving.
The G wagen can give you 4.
I would love a Unimog, but that's getting unnecessary......
Stick with your Defender. You are gradually shaking down all of the faults that will enable you to end up with a relaible workhorse. If you swap now, you could be inheriting someone else's bodges.
Consider an air locker on the rear if you want more driven wheels
D
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