Reply With QuoteDepends how you look at the figures. For example, 2019 to 2020 for independents vs. comprehensive, there’s a 10-11% increase in their figures in each case.Originally Posted by mangoosian
The Indies do appear to have enjoyed quite a 'leg up', more so than the children of the less affluent.
Depends how you look at the figures. For example, 2019 to 2020 for independents vs. comprehensive, there’s a 10-11% increase in their figures in each case.
The universities may need the students, but have had a cap on students placed on them for this year, so grade inflation could cause huge issues for them.
Classrooms with less than 5 pupils did not have the ranking applied, just predicted grades. Classrooms up to 15 had a 50:50 approach, and larger classrooms just the ranking and algorithm.
It’s a bit of a nonsense, and quite unfair.
The figures show that overall it works have been 12% better than last year, using predicted grades, and government etc. wanted a 2% increase. It’s great (we’ll not for any one adversely affected) that they can just play like that.
It's just a matter of time...
Congratulations to the young people whose hard work has been rewarded and who have secured the next step they were hoping for.
I would say however, that some here should look into this a little more before they decry the reporting of the media. Just because you're (incredibly small) anecdotal sample suggests everything is hunky-dory, does not make it the case more broadly.
A couple of well-balanced examples of media reporting:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/t...-why-tmtgrv3j2
Were this year’s A-level results fair? - https://on.ft.com/3iG3EvM via @FT
The killer aspect is that the argument the government and regulator have made is that teachers predictions are too optimistic - however for class sizes below a certain number (which overwhelmingly favours private schools) the weighting given to such predictions is heavier. That is neither fair, nor an acceptable solution to the situation caused by Covid.
Some further statistical analysis here:
http://thaines.com/post/alevels2020
If you want further anecdotal evidence I suggest looking here:
https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/st...829752323?s=20
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The classroom size will be the factor. Independent schools have more favourable classroom size ratios and that has willed out in the results.
If you can’t trust the teachers opinion then who can you trust. They know the pupil
Looks like a major U turn on the cards at 4pm.
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If you could trust all schools to assess their students accurately then there would be a level playing field, no grade inflation and no need for an algorithm.....
Unfortunately those schools who couldn’t / wouldn’t do it properly have buggered it up for everyone.
Indeed, another massive cock up.
NI are doing the same as Scotland and going with predicted grades.
Wales also doing a U turn right now
The Government will be keen to backtrack and come out with some nonsense about 'listening' before the shit really hits the fan with GCSE results on Thursday.
They have had months to sort this out.
And surely for the sake of one year it was best to give the kids an advantage rather than a disadvantage?
English system of using the algorithm has been a total and utter disaster except for those elite and privately educated kids. Tory Government at its very best. Keep the elite up and the riff-raff down.
The teachers, department heads and year heads know the kids best and the predicted grades should stand. I hope collective action takes place and is successful.
Or don't give them either, which is what they're trying to do. Someone posted earlier that 75% of predicted grades for university are too high, why is that if teachers know the kids so well?
All of the blame being placed on this evil 'algorithm' makes me laugh, it's not black magic.
As others said earlier though, the predictions are not an accurate reflection of grades achieved (though other factors such as unconditional offers also play a role). Sometimes the predicted grades are also not a realistic but an aspirational estimation (and on top of that A-levels are a poor predictor of HE performance).
The bigger issue though is this whole nonsense of applying with predicted grades - which is unique in the world. Letting students apply with achieved grades would make life a lot easier and fairer for everyone involved.
Surely someone somewhere must have seen that the U turn was a foregone conclusion.
4pm - so 17 mins until U-Turn
And government in U turn shocker
Huge U-Turn.
So they’ve now made it the Universities problem, as they wouldn’t have the staffing levels to deal with all the appeal - at least some students should be a lot happier, and if there is a little inflation then so be it. I’m sure a lot of people/employers will be noting what year applicants sat their exam in future though ;)
It's just a matter of time...
Upgraded to a B-turn without the use of an algorithm ha ha ha..... I'll get my coat :)
Based upon Teacher “assessment”, but what does this mean. Some children would have sat Multiple Mock exams, my son sat Mocks before and after Christmas using previous exam papers. Other children have only set test given to them by teacher.
Then we get into the mind games played by some teachers. Some pupils will have been given higher grades in an attempt to encourage them. So will have been given lower scores in order to motivate them and provide a wake up call.
So before teachers assessments are used, surely it’s important to define a consistent method on which pupils are assessed. Clearly doing it purely on previous “test“ results is insufficient.
Not that it really matters. Those going to Uni or further education will ultimately be judged on these results. More worrying is that some children will have receive inflated results, will go to Uni for 3-4 years, will generate up £50k in debt and then struggling to get their degrees, simply because they were not as bright as they were told they were.
Whatever method was used, it was always going to be sub-optimal.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Many very able pupils underperform (usually less motivated bright pupils who have "better" things to do with their time than schoolwork!) during the school year but achieve well in exams. Others go to pieces under exam conditions. Trying to estimate grades, based on performance in class is therefore a nightmare! Hopefully, they don't all celebrate too much and end up spreading more than just the usual post exam splurges!
Maybe the Government realised that all those young A level students will all have votes at the next election!
And most teachers can see full well who they are after teaching them year in year out. It's clear who can pull it out of the bag and who is just dreaming. There's a lot of content in a GCSE, far more in an A level, It's very rare that you get a genuinely surprising success and it usually involves tutors. Genuinely surprising failures are more common sadly.
I don't think 18/19 year olds are core Conservative voters!
I've had some great news. My Cycling Proficiency fail has been overturned!
It's really quite difficult to comprehend how this whole thing has been mismanaged so catastrophically having had 5 months notice. I can understand elected politicians being useless but where are the civil servants in all of this?
I've worked on some pretty small and inconsequential projects in my (private sector) career but they've all been better planned and delivered than this which has such far reaching consequences for so many young people. And will anyone be held to account? Not a chance.
Now upgraded to a B turn.And government in U turn shocker
Maybe not, but they have good memories!
Post downgraded because you copied from your forum mates, or at least didn't read the thread before posting!Now upgraded to a B turn.
Copied from Twitter and didn't read the thread.
Ignoring for a minute the longer term impact, this is what I'm now faced with and many others are in a worse position.
Madness Jnr needed 3 B's for his first choice, awarded BBC by the algorithm. (School published his teacher assessed as BBB) First choice offered a foundation year (full fees for another year, no thanks) and so he took his insurance choice. Accomodation now being sorted but because he has taken his insurance choice he was down the pecking order for accomodation and we've been told that only some daftly expensive or catered stuff is left. Was just in the process of sorting that out when the U turn comes out. So now were trying to find out if his original offer still stands, how do we confirm that and reject the course he has been accepted onto? Nightmare for admissions and accomodation staff everywhere as lots of students will now be effectively upgrading back to their original first choice and pulling out of accepted courses in what was their insurance choice.
Monumental cock up which they had months to prepare for as soon as they announced that there would be no exams this year.
No planning whatsoever
It doesn't take a crystal ball to work out what would happen.
Did they ask any of the Universities or Head Teachers?
Pathetic.
Williamson should resign now.
But I expect he and the Government will spend the next 24 hours looking for someone to blame, don't be surprised if it is all the students fault.
No, there was no meaningful consultation because ex gas fire salesman of the year Gavin Williamson, currently in charge of the entire national education system, thought he knew better.
So clever my foot fell off.
Apparently they’re already briefing the press that it was all the fault of Ofqual, what a surprise.
What happens next year? What’s the baseline?
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Next year's cadre could be in a worse position given the amount of schooling they have already lost and will lose.
Next year's mock results may make grim reading.
The gulf between Public and State schools will be even wider given the amount of work set/completed and access to technology during the lockdown.
Sorry to hear about Madness Jr. The issue is that most universities will have filled their places and won't be able to accommodate a new wave of applications - accommodation, teaching space and staff numbers being the limiting factors.
What I found most frustrating about the ranking was that, in my school at least, it was the last job we did before lockdown and the first job we did on Teams. There we had the benefit of every aspect of every student being absolutely fresh in our minds, access to all the books and so on. Several months later we were asked to put the entire cohort in order. At A level that wasn't so hard, but GCSE was a nightmare that both took hours and left no one with much faith that we'd got it right. So we went from an utterly familiar process to an unknown unwieldy and competitive process discussing students we hadn't taught for a while.
And then those figures...
As for next year. I can only speak for my lot. but transferring to teams went far better than expected and personally I used teams in a manner that wasn't dissimilar to this, but with a load of multimedia stuff thrown in and each lesson set as an assignment with all the resources in place there and the final work submitted before the next lesson. Mind you. we went for matching the normal school day online which worked well. Between teams and forms for registers and any multiple choice stuff we were on top of data and attendance with far less effort. The only problem was poorly motivated student without supportive parents. Covid made that all a bit stark, which is probably a good thing, even if it doesn't feel that way.
Last edited by M4tt; 17th August 2020 at 23:29.
Just to show how messed up its getting, Madness Jnr (as of this afternoon) has a place on his course at his insurance choice but no accommodation yet but his first choice has held his accommodation offer but no decision yet on a place on the course!!!! I think it will come down to how many places his first choice lose as others get higher grades and go back to their first choice.
Even more joy on Thursday as Madness the youngest gets his GCSE results and we start the next faff!!
Would it be at all possible for the Universities to undertake a reset and start acceptances all over again using the updated grades?
Tough for some, I know, but this may be the fairest way forward if there are insufficient places.
Just to think, how easily this complete fiasco could have been avoided.
I think that’s what will happen for the most part. Otherwise what’s the point of having a conditional offer, and then meeting that condition and having the place withdrawn...
It's just a matter of time...
If this year’s inflated grades are not baked in, next year’s grades will be significantly lower than this year’s. We’ll have the same type of angst next year.
Agree, and not just in education, the socio-economic divide will widen.
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What does a polymath specialise in and teach at A level?
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I absolutely agree with you
Last edited by bobocat; 27th August 2020 at 17:40.
The problem with this is that as a result of this truly gargantuan mess the Government has needlessly created, that many have now secured themselves accommodation, and many of course haven’t. Thousands of students have made new arrangements, accepted new offers, or been given offers they wouldn’t otherwise have had or accepted.
There simply isn’t time to reset this debacle, and to do so would now be grossly unfair on thousands more students.
it truly is a breathtaking screw-up in every way, and so utterly pointless and unnecessary.
So clever my foot fell off.
But wait! We haven't finished - they have pulled 570,000 BTEC results (250,000 of which had already gone out) at the last minute to regrade them!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-53843148
No because it is a contractual relationship (students are covered by consumer and contract law) - once they have offered the place they are stuck.
Newsnight yesterday highlighted the plight of independent students (maybe home educated or doing resits not at school, amongst others) who haven’t got a grade at all because there is no school to predict one.
I don’t see how they can be marked appropriately tbh.
So this year my wife had a lower ability GCSE cohort than normal. A fair few seem to have benefited from this mess as their grades got upped from predicted ones by the board due to last years better performance. She did wonder if she could appeal the waste of space who did sod all, refused to do a mock and was predicted a U and got upped to a 2 by AQA lol
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