Reply With QuoteFrom their website :
"We are now official stockists of MWC watches (Military Watch Co). They will be put onto our website within the next 24 hours."
Sounds like the same bunch, yes.
I was a bit surprised to see Austin Kaye are selling a bunch of them. They're not cheap either.
Is there more than one MWC company, or are these really the same as the ones you see on the bay?
I think I'll stick with my prs-14....
From their website :
"We are now official stockists of MWC watches (Military Watch Co). They will be put onto our website within the next 24 hours."
Sounds like the same bunch, yes.
.
Let's not given them any free advertising then ... :wink:
It says whatever it says about AK. :twisted:
john
THIN is the new BLACK
Take a look at the sticky on the Broad Arrow forum at MWR to know all about MWC.
Send ''em to me and i'll crucify 'em at 2,650metres :twisted:
I take Abraxas point about free advertising, but I've got to share this with you...
For the 'MWC W10' model, in the description they're claiming that this (my highlighting) W10 was the precursor to the G10 models used by the armed forces today, and is a slightly updated version of the original 60's/70's model.
The way it's written, it could be read that they (MWC) have been supplying the forces since then (presumably rather than companies like Smiths, CWC).
I'm really surprised/disappointed AK are pushing this stuff.
They also seem to be pushing 'MWC' models that look identical to the Rayla and Rayrus divers for over 3x the price of those on ebay and twice the price of a PRS-18 :roll:
MWC may have once issued a small number of watches in the 70s but it's difficult to believe that they do now.
To answer the question about different companies, to me it all looks like one organisation. I bought one from the bay at 2/3 of the advertised cost and have since sold it. It was the GLTS PVD auto diver.
The company is headquartered in Zurich. Next to none of their watches are cased there, so only a few are "Swiss Made". MWC uses the rather dodgy term "Swiss Movt" on some of their watches if they have an ETA movement therein.
Affiliated with the company are Telford Services, another company in Canada, and an office in Gibraltar. The "service centre" in Sydney is an expat in Bondi who refers you to the website.
The movement in mine was a non-hacking Miyota 8200 series. Non-hacking are a bit silly for a military style watch. It arrived gainign 10 secs/day but a watchmaker regulated it to +2 secs. Apart from sounding like a ball bearing in a tin can when moved, I hear that this is quite a reliable movement. The cost of the movement is about US$30-40 however.
The lugs could be moved a little bit. Basically, they were attached by placing the pin in the holes (which traversed the whole lug) and hitting them with a sharp point so the metal expanded and jammed it in place, more or less.
As others have said on this and MWR fora, it isn't so much that they are bad watches, but that their advertising is highly misleading and their prices astronomical for the cost of production.
They target two main companies for model design: CWC and Marathon. The former have previously sued them for painting their "MWC" logo in an oval, resembling CWC's. CWC may well be overpriced for what they are, but nobody doubts either their quality or the truth of their MOD contracts.
For watches you can trust in a military environment, but with classic looks, you really would have trouble going past the new Precista range from timefactors. I don't work for them :-). For active service I would recommend the PRS18Q, PRS17Q, and the PRS17C. I love autos and I have an 18A, but for deployment purposes you don't really need to be getting outside with your GPS to reset your watch every few days.
Remember that over 300 Australians died at the Nek in Gallipoli in 1915 because the Navy and Army watches were out of synch by ten minutes (guns fired, guns stopped, soldiers waited while Turks flooded back into trenches, then the whistle blew to go over the top 10 minutes too late). Nearly all of them died in an area the size of a tennis court, all because watches were out of synch. I realise that purists will slam me for this, but only a few select units actually synchronise watches - army aviation in particular - on a regular basis. Before I go away for any length of time I get a new battery if mine has been in for more than 18 months and then avail myself of pressure testing services.
I purchased the MWC G10BH 2007 Spec via Telford Services UK in Dec 2006, which was held still boxed as a present for my Son prior to him entering basic training with the RAF, which he did in March 2007. Unfortunately after 3 weeks of use the second hand/indicator fell off (an obviously manufacturing fault). I immediately arranged a Warranty Return via Telford Services at an additional cost to me of £15 in April 2007. As I was eager for my son to get his watch back as soon as possible I chased Telford Services for update on replacement/return regularly, but did not receive any response, until I was forced to contact MWC direct to intervene in June 2007. I was told at this point that, despite Telford Services their Premier UK Dealer offering a full Manufacturers Warranty, this was not MWC's business. I finally won a County Court Small Claims Judgment against Telford Services in Nov 2007, which they have chosen to ignore. I wrote to MWC MD/CEO in Feb 2008 with the full details of my warranty return claim, and followed up with email in Apr 2008 - with no reply - one year after last seeing my watch. To date I have no watch or money back.
ONLY BUY A WATCH FROM THESE PEOPLE IF YOU CAN AFFORD TO THROW IT AWAY WHEN IT BREAKS DOWN.
PS. My Son Passed-Out of basic in Aug 2007 with a CWC G10 on his wrist, which continues to perform well through his service in the RAF Regiment.
Ian Larder - Lincolnshire UK
:(
MWC are to military watches what John Prescott is to ballet shoe manufacture. They did use to advertise in Soldier magazine from time to time though. Absolutely staggered that AK are punting this sh*te.
Crouchy
Thanks for the post Ian.Originally Posted by YellaBelly
john
THIN is the new BLACK
My frustartion with both Telford Services and MWC, who clearly are not interested in the business practises of their 'Premier Agent', is the total lack of Customer Service, and respect for their Customers.
I sent numerous emails both direct and via their online form, plus fax, and finally letters (signed for) giving them ample opportunity to respond and advise the status of my watch return (copies of which MWC have now got also). Trevor Rowell's (Telford Services) only correspondence (the day after I contacted MWC direct) was an email reply on 25 Jun'07 (to one of mine on 22 Jun'07 - so they were getting them) in which I had the following one line response:
"Hi, a replacement watch was sent out as I remember packing it myself. I will ask our dispatch if they can track it to find out where it has gone. regards, Trevor"
I immediately replied with:
"Many thanks for response Trevor, I would be grateful if you could advise tracking status for the replacement watch, we certainly haven’t received it at our home address, or at my work address. Would it have been sent Special/Recorded Delivery, what was the tracking number?
Many thanks & regards, Ian Larder"
I haven't had any proof of posting/delivery from them or tracking information. In their initial defence of the CCJ they claimed to have received instruction from MWC to send replacement watch on 18 Jun'07, however they neither provided supporting evidence, and MWC knew nothing of my claim on the 24 Jun'07. It appears to me that MWC have no bench mark for service when issuing 'Premier Agent' status only on who sells the most (or maybe their own Customer Service is the bench mark). Also, Telford Services hide behind their foreign ownership (was Canadian, now appears to be Australian) feeling this makes them immune from the law, but deeper than that common decency and respect when dealing with clients. I have spent alot of time, and now money, on this 'cheap' watch but it is the principle of poor service and standing up and admitting your errors that is most important to me.
I have spent 25 years in an industry (shipping) full of rogues and cheats but in that time have never come across such disregard to the Customer. In Mr Rowell's "16 years in the British Army" it appears all he learnt was how to hide.
As you can see, i'm still very bitter and I now have a fear of buying anything on the web (I was going to get a better watch - maybe a military diver but who can you trust).
Ian
Ian, welcome,
and trust your fellow forummers here... they will all tell you that our host's watches are well worth their money and his service (presales, aftersales and customerservice) is up with the best.... I have quite a bunch of the timefactors watches (and payed them in full... :wink: ) and enjoy wearing them on a regular basis...
have a look here... http://www.timefactors.com/precista.htm as well as the others you can find there...
Jeroen
Buy from Eddie with complete confidence.
Pete
There's a reason that this forum has been "criticised" as a timefactors fan club on other sites: they are excellent value for money and superb watches in their own right, irrespective (or, for the militarily grammatically-challenged speakers of the dargon dialect, "irregardless") of price!
I have three of them: 18A, 53 and, as of yesterday, a 17C12.
My other watches are a Tag Heuer New 2000 (quartz, bought in 1996 in pre-WIS days), a G-shock for taking on the obs course, a Mickey mouse watch my parents brought back from Disneyland, and a wonderful 1965 Roamer Vanguard 315 that I found last February, in a jar of cuff links and shirt studs among my grandfather's things just before his funeral.
I mostly wear the 18A (and will start wearing the 17C12 more, now that I have started a helicopter retrieval job). For dress purposes, it's the 53 for military and lodge functions and the Roamer for other occasions. The 18A is on a bead-blasted lumpadoo.
I hardly ever wear the Tag now.
The MWC "special Forces" PVD GLTS auto diver was a disappointment from the start and nothing but trouble. Still, I got a bit for it on the bay of evil.
Unfortunately, they will continue to be bought by people who don't know better. Sad, but true. The more I read about these business practices the madder I get. :evil:
The sad fact is that almost everything they sell can be bought at a fraction of the price direct from Asia.
I woder how much repeat business they get?
Here's a shot of the sadder part of my collection a few years ago, complete with a PVD, SBS, etc, etc, MWC marvel in the middle. Observe also the "Zeno-USA" at left and the trusty Luminox "Navy Seals" job at right. All gone now, although I quite liked the Luminox, even bought the matching Velcro band for it 8)
caveat emptor,
What's sad about the Zeno USA Explorer?
they sell mwc at my local army surplus store
at a very high price
they are presented in such a way the average squaddie [include me in that up untill i joined this site] would be totaly fooled into beliving them the real deal.
the display looks real good,relatives often buy them for their sons etc.
beliving they got them something good.
lets remember we have the luxury of combined knowledge on here... :wink:
I'm not really deep into all these issues, but what I can say is that I handled an MWC in a shop t'other day before I'd even heard of the brand, or it's 'issues'. It was the SAR copy. I'm no expert, but to me it felt very cheap, lightweight, the bezel had a nasty loose yet 'crunchie' feel to it and the whole package just felt low-rent and vastly overpriced at £400. I wouldn't have paid more than £100 for it, and at that price there are tons of other watches I'd buy first. I'm looking forward to comparing it to a real SAR which I pick up today :)Unfortunately, they will continue to be bought by people who don't know better. Sad, but true. The more I read about these business practices the madder I get.
Point is that I think that even people who don't know better would think twice if they got to handle one of these in the flesh before parting with their cash. Alarm bells should ring even if you're not exactly sure why.
Bit of an aside - but the other thing that struck me as I read through the thread on the other forum was that there seemed to be a underlying feeling that MWC and it's resellers might benefit from the continuing 'discussion' in the form of free advertising, perhaps via collectors picking up a watch just to see what the fuss was all about. Well, there may be some short-term truth in that, but it's surely a pretty disasterous long-term philosophy! Most people these days regardless of what they are buying head straight to google to read reviews and check prices on their desired gadget - which is exactly what I did when I got back from the shop after having seen the MWC. The first pages I found were the threads here and on the other forums - a quick scan of which was enough to steer me clear of MWC for life.
Neil
you put that very well
That's true. For example you can buy a "Kronos" Royal Navy diver like this one below on the right (with a poor nylon strap, not the one on the picture) form Ray Wong on e-bay (seller watchesu571) for a fraction of the price you pay to MWC web site, where a quartz CWC copy is at £199!! Circled MWC logo looks a bit a fake of CWC, at least Kronos have no deceiving logo on the dial. Never experienced MWC divers, but read somewhere that they are exactly the same sold by Ray Wong. I underline that this is not my experience but just read it somewhere, please correct if you have any info. Anyway if I had to pay £199 for an MWC, I would save up a little more and go for a CWC!!
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