Reply With QuoteYep. I really love the look of the black prospex with the rubber strap but no way would I pay £5400 for it.
Just opened an email from Jura for these new Basel released Seiko Prospex LX models. £4500 is the cheapest one! Am I missing something here? That's serious money for a Seiko prospex is it not? They're Spring Drive and priced right alongside GS model pricing...
https://www.jurawatches.co.uk/collec...528481a9f8_jpg
Reminds me of this video I spotted a few weeks back - he goes on a bit... but it refers to Seikos price strategy and placement of the various ranges v's price.
Last edited by JohnnyE; 2nd April 2019 at 17:55.
Yep. I really love the look of the black prospex with the rubber strap but no way would I pay £5400 for it.
I like the lx gmt, but like most others, the price is a sticking point. Probably available for less abroad. What's timeless charging for them?
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Up there with GS because they're now separate, so they can move into similar price points more frequently now.Originally Posted by JohnnyE
Though I don't think it'll work, personally. A 4.5k (non Grand) Seiko just jars too much!
They've also watered down the brand image of "Prospex" for me too.. which is at odds with this pricing. When I was dabbling at the lower end of Seiko I was NEVER in the price league of affording a Prospex. Like an "M" badge.. or "AMG". Now? Prospex appears on sub £200 watches. So what do they do?.. try to upsell it at over £5k. A price mess.
Actually... while rambling... my M car and AMG analogy perhaps suffers a similar fate to the Prospex branding, as AMG "spec" levels in particular are all across the ranges now.
Last edited by JohnnyE; 2nd April 2019 at 18:42.
I think this is going to be tricky for them to keep a clear vision and product across Seiko and Grand Seiko if they start into all this. Will be interesting to see where they’re at across the ranges in 5 years from now...
Seiko and expensive will never belong in the same sentence for me. The cheap 7s 26 automatics were excellent watches for well under £100, after a stripdown, careful assembly and a bit of adjustment these watches could perform way above their price level, the movements never looked pretty but they lasted well, good honest watches and great value for money.
I love the cheaper Seikos for what they were, but there’s no way I’d pay big money for something with the Seiko badge on the dial.
I think Seiko in itself is synonymous with inexpensive watch,so I wish them luck with their move upmarket but I won’t buy any of them with that asking price...
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Last edited by jambobbyb; 22nd May 2019 at 10:35.
Having thought about this again, maybe it's just watches in general getting too expensive. I think I'm right in saying that the SDBD001 was more expensive (list price not grey dealer) than a non date sub when it came out in c. 2004 and the SBDX001 always had a list price around that of the moonwatch. Both the modern equivalents of this watch are cheaper relative to those counterparts.
I'd love to get the LZ GMT. Hopefully a grey dealer will offer them for less at some point or may be in a Jura sale. The one I like has a list price of 4500. If I can pay 3000 for it, I'll be happy enough. A third off is what I paid via a grey dealer for my SBDX017.
I'd say the new Turtle is pricy given its little more than a Marinemaster in a fatter case and no bracelet but I suspect as a limited run, highly anticipated watch, it will sell pretty well
We'll see
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It's not so much 'price creep' as 'price smash the door down, make love to your wife and then smoke your finest cigars whilst wearing your finest dressing gown'. Its a crazy price and now that Prospex range is in the same price bracket as Rolex and Omega. Seiko make some cracking watches but their bracelets are inferior to Omega and Rolex and at £2k that was fine. At £5k it most certainly is not fine
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As Grand Seiko race upmarket, Seiko follows to fill the gap. I suppose it depends on just how good these watches really are.
I like 'em, but I don't like 'em that much. I've sold a couple of sbdb005 on the forum for around £1500. OK, no bezel, but Spring Drive and titanium.
Maybe if I try it first I will change my mind but for now I agree with you
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Seems like the beginning of the decadent end of a formerly great brand to me.
Are all prices creeping up? No. Not as such. They are offering the SD models at a ridiculous premium.
I'm sure they expect sales to match demand at each price point - and they have choice at each price point. These models will not dent sales of other lines but will increase sales and revenue overall.
For a long time Seiko pricing has been a mystery to me but this particular pricing seems to make economic and marketing sense. Just like Swatch Group etc they offer watches at most price points.
Perhaps the the strapline should read "SpringDrive, for those that like to pay more"
Gray
I think it has to be a Spring Drive premium, surely... I bought the SPB083 new, for about £900 with a discount, and I think the quality at that price point is absolutely impossible to argue with. These are priced to compete with the Swiss "premier league" and while I think that works for Grand Seiko, I can't imagine that these will have similar levels of attention to detail or finishing.I'm sure they will sell like hot cakes, of course, but that doesn't mean the market is sane... ;-)
Seiko have shredded their previous marketing & pricing strategy in the last year or two and consolidated in a few product lines.
They want to push upmarket, and this requires taking an axe to their value proposition. Up to now seiko have always been thought of as great value, particularly in the 300-600 price bracket.
Great value means a watch worth more than the amount of money you pay. this was the SARB line in a nutshell.
Now the SARB line is gone, replaced with SARX and Proxpex, at almost double the price for some very similar watches.
e.g. the SARX035 is certainly better than the SARB033, but is it over twice as good? In my opinion, no, but its now twice the cost. The value is now not there. The watch is probably priced fairly, but old, loyal customers who value the "value" are left wanting.
Similar to proxpex, the old SUMO is retired and a new one is out, minor modifications at double the price. SUMO was always considered a great watch at 400 quid, is it so great at 800 quid, or priced about right?
We also see the proxpex line get Spring Drives.
Firstly: Spring drive != Grand Seiko
The spring drive inherently commands a premium. If someone is willing to pay that premium on a watch branded "Proxpex", a line in which just last year one could get an entry level model for 400 quid, well that remains to be seen.
Move over Seiko let Citizen take over.
David
Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations
I love the new LX line - so many good watches and quality looks excellent from the videos I've seen.
However price creep is an utter understatement. I think Ryan has described well what is happening. I agree with the sentiment of - 'this is a just Seiko'. The 'Grand Seiko' had the grace and distinction of being a Grand Seiko. In fact these new LX have the damn X on it as well.
This is a problem more so because the newer expensive re-editions/SEs do not have it on their dials. Clearly Seiko know collectors would shun these Sys if the damn X was present. Yet they seem to take the pee with these watches. I don't get it. At 50% off I'd love the Land and the black diver. At full price, pass.
I can’t see many people paying £4000 for a Seiko when the same money would be get them into the territory of Omega, Breitling etc.
I’m not saying their brand image will never get there, and I’m sure a watchmaker would say that some of their watches are in that region in terms of quality, but much of the market is still influenced by perceptions of status or prestige. I think Seiko’s prices are rising faster than those perceptions.
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I suppose everyone has their idea of value but £4-5K opens up a lot of other possibilities... Not for me at those prices
I wish 'em luck with their pricing strategy but at those prices I'm not likely to be tempted (though to be fair I have very few £5k watches).
Those watches pictured appear to be Spring Drives. It would be interesting to see the pricing of the normal auto movement options that will eventually follow.
Are Seiko really in the same league as Rolex and some of the more expensive Omegas, I don't think so. I have never really got the GS thing and this is just as bad.
I have owned many Seiko and as a £300 to £600 brand they are absolutely superb - but £5k, sorry not in a million years.
You haven't owned the higher end Seikos but are quite sure they are not worth it. Seriously.
My GS Diver is better finished and technically superior to the Submariner and costs half as much. Its not even a very close comparison (other than the Rolex having a superior bracelet).
Perhaps you should pick up a used GS and try it - they are very easy to sell afterwards if you wish.
I like the classic diver reissues but they are very expensive , sadly out of my reach
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Citizen is the new Seiko
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BUBI 0_0
For the SD I suppose it's pitched ok but when you look at the price of the SLA033 (£3200 roughly), which I understand is a LE, it's too far in my opinion. It's really only in line with the absurd prices of the rest of the industry, which is the norm sadly.
Got to agree with general consensus, Seiko are nowhere near the market placement of Rolex. Assume Seiko are taking a long term view for brand placement/acknowledgement
Corrected that for you :-)
I remember the term "Seiko money" when pointing out how much value for money a watch had....
I got a similar e-mail from Jura featuring some new Grand Seikos - 'Ooh look', I thought, 'a grand Seiko I actually like'. Clicked on it to check it out, and it cost £40,000 !!!!!! You must be kidding! Or did I get the e-mail on April 1st?
It is not unusual for a brand to produce a range of products at different price points and levels of exclusivity - there’s a fair gap between a Ford Fiesta and a GT40. But there is generally some unifying principle to a brand and its marketing. Seiko seem keen to shift theirs from ‘affordable’ or ‘value for money’ to perhaps ‘quality at any price point’, together their own unique aesthetics. They may see the historical western perception of their brand as being wide of the mark and in need of correction. Or they may simply see other brands successfully marketing mutton as lamb, and want some of that action. Either way, it’s a huge job to shift perceptions of such a large brand. It’s taken Omega over 40 years to not quite escape their 70s flirtation with value for money, and they may never fully catch up with Rolex as a result.
Certainly for Seiko, it will remain a challenge to market higher end pieces that are not strongly visually differentiated. They’ve already had to re-create GS as a supposedly separate brand as a result. Until they’ve successfully changed the brand story, their higher end Seiko branded products may appeal mainly to confirmed fans, or else to introverts who have little interest in conspicuous consumption. But they may also help to change the narrative that the brand is only about affordable products. Though for that to work, you’re reaction has to be something other that, ‘You must be joking’ when you see them.
Last edited by Itsguy; 4th April 2019 at 12:06.
Exactly, it was the benchmark colloquialism for bang for buck , value for money. Not no more
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But, Mr Grumpy, you can get it on 0% interest.
Grand Seiko yes, they are inherently better finished than Rolex and Omega. Rolex and Omega clasps are better but aside from that the GS is a fairly obvious step above when in the hand. But that's a GS. These are standard Seiko Prospex lines which won't have the same level of fit and finish as a GS and yet are priced in a similar territory. I'd expect these to be used as a price placement exercise but in the real world receive discounts of 30% routinely. At 30% off I might be tempted. But someone choosing that Prospex over a Planet Ocean or Submariner is making a very brave choice and won't get a lot of their investment back if they change their mind
Why? It's only marketing.
I am curious about that GS are as well finished as they say especially after that thread a couple of years back where the forum member had one with problems with the dial.
ORIENT is the new Seiko, surely?
That was me, and I wasn’t impressed. These days I view all the talk about quality of materials and finish with a note of caution. I also have doubts about their commitment to customers with problems.
Still, I have bought two GS watches since; i would recommend some models, especially the quartz and spring-drives.
I’m just not starry-eyed about the company.
Last edited by paskinner; 4th April 2019 at 14:09.
I think I'll take the option of zero payments and 0 interest by not buying it!!
I've had a few vintage Seikos from the late sixties, early seventies, and the quality of these watches is evident from how well they've stood up to the passing of time, especially in comparison with famous Swiss names from the same time. No need to pretend tarnish is patina when the dial is still looking mint.
I would be delighted to see Seiko regaining that level, but I would rather they did that by upping the quality rather than the price. I like my Presage very much, and the specs are good, but the quality of the dial and casework is nothing like that on a Lord Matic or even a Skyliner.
my orange monster V2 is over 5 years old now and looks pretty much brand new - and it's had some hard use so I have no issue with seiko quality.
That 'BLNR' on a bracelet is something I'd buy tomorrow if it was in the 1-2k range. Even at 3k at a push and I was feeling frisky it might be done. However at 5k it's just a non starter.
I'll wait for the new seiko gmt automatic movement to make it's way into something less clunky than it's current case, god if they put that in a crown at 4, 42mm pepsi bezel on a good bracelet for a grand I'd be in serious marital trouble.....
Well, there's always the 2nd hand and / or grey market...
These are amazeballs! I’ve put my name on the diver, might buy the “Landmaster” as well.
Perhaps Seiko consider value line automatics bought for telling the time as a declining market they wish to exit. Consumer expectations as to accuracy, convenience and longevity have shifted and it's questionable if it's economic to service such watches. The higher ground of watches as wholly perceived luxury items might be the only sustainable future.
Very good point - people have asked why service a NH35 when a whole new movement would cost a fraction of that.
It's a pity - I think the whole point of owning a mechanical device is partially in "keeping it ticking" which means servicing as appropriate. If people just toss out the movement every 5 years... sad (but understandable financially in some cases).
I don't think anyone is doubting that at all. I certainly am not! Both the diver and the Landmaster look amazing. It's the pricing and more importantly the branding which we are struggling with.
So if you an get with 30% off and then drop another 20% I'd definitely be interested
In all seriousness, your analysis is spot on.
Really, that’s interesting news for me. I didn’t get that feeling when handling them. Care to enlighten me and elaborate on that statement?
This is (almost) always the case with new SEIKO releases. At least they don’t increase the prices on current models. But I agree, the price is insane.
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