Reply With QuoteLove the title, i am putting the popcorn on 🍿.
Probably stirring a hornets nest here, but here goes.
I’m beginning to appreciate Tudor for a few reasons:
- affordable (maybe there has been a price jump since starting to use the Breitling ebáuche - instead of ETA, but still relatively affordable)
- case shape hasn’t become bloated like it’s big brother
- good variety in colour (and style)
- with the new BB58 case depth and non-bloated shoulders and smaller diameter (39mm) they could onto a killing
- movements are top grade - 70h pwr etc etc (because of Breitling collaboration - but no-one is perfect - joke)
- availability - yeh they are actually producing the goods. So they can be bought fro the high street - unlike its brother
- did I mention affordable?
I know they sell the snowflake hand as trade mark Tudor but some of their early models had Mercedes hands so if they went back to their roots they would be producing superlative watches. But it maybe that is asking too much?
Anyway, I am warming to the brand. I doubt it will have the caché of its big brother and the marketing guys probably aren’t able to step on their toes.
So, there are my thoughts and of course do chirp up any comments.
Martyn
Love the title, i am putting the popcorn on 🍿.
Hi Martyn - interesting comments!
As I'm relatively new to this game, I was immediately drawn to Tudor. They have some great models, both modern and vintage, and offer really strong bang for buck from what I can see. The one area I would disagree on the above is the availability - for the BB58 and GMT you will have to wait. I got to try on a GMT because the chap in Fraser Hart owned his own and after getting to know him a bit he let me handle it (keep it clean!).
Currently expecting to get my GMT in January, so will post pics and give my views on it after I've given it some proper wrist time. Have to say, I am seriously eyeing up a Prince Date/Date+Day which can be got in good condition with papers for a very reasonable price as a DJ alternative. Perhaps a wee Xmas present to myself!
If I get on with the GMT I'll almost certainly pick up a BB58, just interested to see what Tudor release at next Baselworld so may hold off until after then. Never seen either a GMT or BB58 in shop window in either Glasgow or Edinburgh.
Interested to hear thoughts of those who have owned Tudors for a while! Do they prefer the in-house over the ETA?
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I cant disagree with anything you have just said tbh. I have never been a particular fan of Rolex but I do find myself drawn to Tudor. I have no doubt there are staunch Rolex fans who would disagree with you.
Helpful.Originally Posted by Carl.1;4952728t
I have to agree, a nice quality watch at a more affordable price that you can actually buy from your local AD. I have a blue Pelagos and a GMT, they are the two watches I tend to wear most.
From what I am told by my local AD the GMT is now coming through and they actually had two 58's in stock.
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I agree with the OP.
I have never liked Rolex watches for a number of reasons I have outlined before (apart from the 5517), however I do love vintage Tudor Submariners in all their guises as well as the chronographs.
I love my Pelagos and have thought about getting the GMT. That said the do seem to be heading down the route of their big brother with regard to availability, I find this rather off putting.
When I want to buy a watch, I want to be able to go in and buy it. Not made wait on an make believe list in the hope they deem me worthy of owning it.
That said Tudor are the only watches I look at in shop windows anymore.
Last edited by Sinnlover; 29th November 2018 at 10:48.
Its only the chronograph thats from Breitling. The threehander is Tudors, that Breitling have been allowed to use too.
Tudor is probably the best price/quality combo one can get atm.
The bbchrono was based on Breitling calibre01. Rest are in house. Not sure I want them to be the next Rolex though. I kinda just like them for what they are
I’d agree with this, last thing I would wish is all the ‘hype’ that surrounds Rolex. I like them just the way they are; high quality, affordable and generally available.
I’ve spent some time this summer searching for a GMT and BB58 to view/try on. Eventually succeeded and both are great, but ended up getting a North Flag...
I think this demonstrates that Tudor can be original, not just producing yet another diver.
The North Flag is a fantastic watch and rarely comes off my wrist.
For me they're almost there but not quite. The Pelagos (both black and blue) looks like it's been bleached in the sun and needs to be slightly darker. The BB just does nothing whatsoever for me and the GMT is a mess, filling a pricing hole in the market vacated by the Rolex GMT. I would, however, be interested in a Pelagos GMT but they'd have to get it very right. Tudor pricing is almost where Rolex was 10 years ago. For me there's something not quite right about what they're doing with their heritage. It would be really interesting to see a Sub reissue but using the old style case. Then you'd have the ceramic Rolex Sub at £6k or whatever it is and unobtainable to mere mortals and you could buy a Tudor version of the old sub (do it as maxi plot 5513 and 1680 models) for £3k. They'd sell like hot cakes. It wouldn't be too hard to make a Snowflake version too in blue or black, maybe a Big Block in a ceramic Sub case. It would be another line of watches and would allow Rolex to produce heritage watches under the Tudor brand like they already do with the Chronos etc. I think making a Tudor ceramic sub would be a step too far though.
"A man of little significance"
Agreed. The more people I talk to the more Tudor is mentioned. My local AD has said interest is increasing all the time. Sadly this will probably lead to supply and demand issues for the desirable models and this is already being seen.
They are fabulous watches and deserve the credit they get.
I tend to agree with you on their design and the other thoughts.
The other big issue for Tudor is image and it still being seen as a poor man's Rolex. Maybe the inability to actually buy a sports Rolex will help Tudor but I still think they have some way to go.
Last watch I brought was a GMT, so big fan here, might look into a pelagos next, as someone has said, wondering what Baselworld will bring, if its worth hanging on.
Scottie
I really don’t think the ‘poor mans rolex’ is a thing out side of this forum. Most wont even know they are a part of the same company. I started a thread about the future of Tudor based on seeing the popularity rising and really think they are doing a great job. I don’t like all their designs but they are distinct enough so as not to be a cheaper version of a Rolex watch in my opinion and have an identity of their own.
Last edited by Stuno1; 29th November 2018 at 11:48.
Thanks for the information. Really interested to know more as there was quite a bit of industry news that Breitling and Tudor would be sharing movement ebauché in future between them.
I believe the exchange was that Breitling gave Tudor their chronograph movement and in exchange Tudor gave Breitling their in house movement we see in the Pelagos. Both then modify the others to make their own.
Well the new superocean heritage uses the Tudor calibre too.
The supply issue for the GMT's and BB58's was our fault as AD's.
Supply was based on all the orders taken from Tudor stockists at Basel. We in Nantwich, in common with probably every other AD, underestimated the huge demand for these fantastic watches and under ordered as a consequence. Each retailer received what they ordered.
Just to reassure you the lists aren't make-believe - the watches are superb additions to the range hence very much sought-after - and that we have ordered plenty more watches for 2019, and I don't doubt for a minute that you are more than worthy!!
Everyone has their own taste but I think given the waiting time and sales thus far I’d say your opinion that the gmt is a mess is a minority view. No watch is perfect but I think they have done astonishingly well to get where they are from basically a standing start when they relaunched themselves with the BBR
I too am watching Tudor develop & grow in the market. They have some very nice pieces now. I really like the blue Pelagos (though as said upthread, the blue could be a bit bluer). I know it's a simplification but my brain keeps telling me that Tudor = Rolex quality for sub Omega money.
Be interesting to see if prices rise year on year once they reach the market share they need to be able to “get away with it”. I’m sure once they reach it the prices will rise
I simply can’t see that not happening. Every brand does it and if sales fall off they adjust. People are strange creatures and seem to think something more expensive is more desirable and inherrabtly better and to a degree enjoy spending big on luxury items.
I do wonder if Tudor will eventually be slugging it out with omega many years as Rolex prices also keep creeping up. As the brand grows in popularity it’s only natural to up prices incrementally.
I wonder how many Tudor have sold, how many people bought them as investments and how the second hand market will treat them. Ten years ago I walked into an AD with a full range of sports Rolex in the window and bought a ceramic GMT for £3,600 or so. Rolex are manipulating prices and supply, this Tudor slots nicely into a space left behind by Rolex. It's gaudy and the proportions are odd but if there's a quick buck to be made and it's hard to get hold of a Rolex GMT then they're onto a good thing. It wasn't long ago that £2800 or so was a lot of money for a watch, now we're almost conditioned to think it's a bargain. I have no doubt there are lots of people who like the look of the Tudor but I wonder how many are trying to kid themselves it's a Rolex. Still, does the job, tells the time, glows at night, glitters nicely.
"A man of little significance"
Agree with most things apart from it being the new rolex because its affordable. Taking away the inflated 2nd hand market the actual Rolex RRP is affordable in today's world when compared to other brands. I.e if you compare models to their equivalents from Patek, Vacheron & Audemars etc
(Disclaimer - I live in London so my view my not relate to the rest of the country)
If they continue to reduce the thickness of the watches & don't implement the ghastly cyclops they'll do well
SSSSSHHHHHHHHHH!!!! Please!
Last thing we need is the “collecting my new Tudor” videos flooding YouTube from the ‘influencers’
Seriously though, I don’t see them as the new Rolex, more the old Rolex. As in producing watches that have the vibe of the old 5 digit (and older) rolex I actually like. But I guess that’s what you mean anyway.
And I love the snowflake hands, never understood the Mercedes hand comments. There’s a million and one watches out there with Mercedes hands. Stick a set of merc hands on a Pelagos and it’ll look ridiculous. In fact would love to see some photoshops. Reminds me of when people moaned about the Seiko samurai hands and now Seiko have obviously listened and come out with the new samurai with ‘normal’ hands and everyone hates it! It looks like the watch equivalent of a T-Rex
The value of them is great too compared to other brands on the high street. But let’s delete this thread...
Tudor are doing a lot of things right. They're getting brand recognition, they're getting the right "Ambassadors" (like them or not), I believe they've just started selling in Japan, which is a huge market. They've sponsored the rugby world cup, and most importantly they have some very good watches. The BB58 and the GMT are fantastic. It's just a matter of time before the price rises.
Also, even if supplies of the BB58/GMT haven't been artificially restricted, it will certainly not hurt their appeal, that's evident from Big Brother's tactics...
I had put my blue Pelagos on the block because I fancied a change, but refunding the buyer (because of lug marks and a mark to the case) and getting it back made me appreciate that it was miles ahead of other weekend watches I had been considering as a possible replacement.
The combination of movement, casework, materials, bezel and adjustable bracelet just couldn’t be found elsewhere. Every time I looked at possible replacements, they were missing something.
So it’s staying and will be living on an inbound Erika Mirage. I’ll probably do the same and look to get a dress watch from Tudor at some point, for weekdays, most likely the new Glamour range with Diamonds.
Mel(issa)
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Last edited by messym; 29th November 2018 at 12:43.
They’re still using ETA movements, the new Premier three hander for example.
Every few months I find myself checking out the North Flag, it’s a contemporary design and I really like the splash of yellow.
Tried to like the Pelagos (as I’ve this weird obsession with titanium) but I find the black too monochromatic, the blue a shade too “bic” and hate the roulette wheel on the LHD.
Don’t like the new GMT as it’s a bit too retro, could see myself getting a 58 if/when they get a date, although not a fan of the faux rivets.
Thought the chrono was an atrocity when it was first unveiled, but I have to say I really like in the metal on a strap.
Last edited by Oafley Jones; 29th November 2018 at 12:42.
Probably less people that kid themselves they like new rolex models because they’re [archie] ‘ROLECKS’ [/archie]
Anyone who buys a watch that way is an idiot.
I buy watches I love the look of of decent quality.
May be hard to believe but some of us actually dislike modern Rolex... don’t get me wrong I love older subs that age with you and the inserts fade, same as the old GMT. The new ones are awful looking things to my eye, the ceramic inserts look really naff. Imagine what they’ll look like in years to come, but I guess the majority of people don’t think like that these days it’s all about flipping.
I stood my Mrs in front of a shop window with some modern Rolex a while back (blnr, yachtmaster etc) and she knows I like Rolex (but not specifically older stuff) and she literally blurred out “sorry, they look awful”. Granted the majority was aimed toward the yachtmaster (wtf is that?) but my point is how many people are conditioned to want a Rolex?
On a video on YT the other day (about this latest MVMT fiasco) a kid in the comment section was saying his Vincero was much nicer (another watch brand kid’s have been spoon fed by influencers) and someone pointed out it’s the same cheap produced overpriced rubbish he’s been sold by ‘influencers’ He actually replied something along the lines of “I like it but I’ll buy a Rolex next”. That’s the mind of these kids conditioned on YT, I actually conversed with him and he talked about “just going to buy a Rolex” no specifics just a ‘rolex’ I did point out he’d have more chance of flying to the moon than strolling in to pick up a sports model and he didn’t have a clue.
Just look at all the diamond fitted junk being sold out there to the wanna be rappers and the like. People don’t even care if it’s a fake dial ‘iced out’ as long as it’s a ‘rolex’.
Last time I was in GoldSmiths I had a really good chat with a really knowledgeable sales guy who had a collection of his own. We got onto the subject of Tudor and he told me they were selling at a an increasingly fast pace nowadays. I'd say that the quality is on par with a modern Rolex in a number of areas tbh.
I think they know exactly what they are doing. Tudor is still the affordable Rolex imho. People who know about watches know they are getting a decent product, without being placed (gmt aside) on some kind of daft FOMO waiting list.
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I'd never really taken much notice of Tudor until the GMT was launched but know I've looked into them they really do make some great pieces. A lot of people say they are not of the quality of Rolex but I can't personally see a massive difference between them (although I'm new to this so might be missing something!)
For those with/looking at the North Flag - I'm with you! It is definitely on 'the list', it is a great design and truly Tudor. It's not an alternative to anything (which arguably the Pelagos, BB58, and GMT are) and is confident in itself.
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Thank you.
Are they the new Rolex? No, they look to occupy a space in the market that Rolex never aspired to.
Tudor always wanted to offer the capability of Rolex but cheaper, and they still do, so they are definitely fullfilling their orignial brief, which is not Rolex's.
I personally do not find any of the sports Tudor designs a "mess" in any sense, and the GMT is definitely a lot less gaudy than almost every coloured Rolex, simply for the toned down blue and red that they have used.
The BB range works, and sells. As I have said before, the round indices with Snowflake hands are seen as crass by some, but if you ignore the requirement for keeping the original square indices on heritage grounds, the design still looks good.
However, I do see the model range as a progression.
I am absolutely sure they are keeping jokers up their sleeves, so that they can make 4 new models on the way to the perfect one, and sell all the way there.
So I am sure we will see a blue BB58. Maybe a Pelagos 58. Maybe a BB GMT 58. All of which will sell well, I am sure. But there is no way they will release them all in one year.
And having made the delineation between BB round indices and Pelagos Square ones, I cannot see them suddenly placing square indices on the BB range.
Dave
I completely agree, I'd buy that
I heard somewhere this is a British effect - you put the price up and everyone else will buy less except us idiots who buy more!
Its nice to hear from someone in the trade and its great to know the Ads have realised and ordered more. I am more than likely to buy one eventually. I was first on the "list" at FH in the City until they told me that in order to retain my place on the list I needed to hand over a 50% non refundable deposit, this was before they were released. I told them to stuff it up their pipes! fingers crossed to buying one in the new year.The supply issue for the GMT's and BB58's was our fault as AD's.
Supply was based on all the orders taken from Tudor stockists at Basel. We in Nantwich, in common with probably every other AD, underestimated the huge demand for these fantastic watches and under ordered as a consequence. Each retailer received what they ordered.
Just to reassure you the lists aren't make-believe - the watches are superb additions to the range hence very much sought-after - and that we have ordered plenty more watches for 2019, and I don't doubt for a minute that you are more than worthy!!
That's FH for you!!
Whether it's the 58 or the GMT it'll be worth the wait - IMHO the GMT was one of the watches of this years Baselworld. Unexpected and truly blue and red plus the GMT functions exactly as the Rolex. And the 58 nails it in every way. I've had my BB Burgundy since early 2014 which I love (as a Rolex AD we could pick up the odd Tudor pre the September roll-out) and I think that the slightly smaller case-size works really well.
Enjoy it when you get it!
I had been lusting after the North Flag for a while but tried one on Saturday and wasn't overly impressed with the feel but then I had just been playing with £7k Omegas
Very pretty thing though
I do like that North Flag.
I think this demonstrates that Tudor can be original, not just producing yet another diver.
The North Flag is a fantastic watch and rarely comes off my wrist.
Interested in how bad these marks were as it’s the 2nd time I’ve seen you casually drop it into a post. I’m assuming they weren’t described, or worse than described? Makes me concerned about selling an expensive watch on Sales section when I read stuff like this though, it’s a used watch, were they expecting it new? The Pelagos marks really easily so unless it’s new it’ll have a mark or few. One good thing is they tidy up really easily with a garryflex block.
If I was selling my Pelagos it’d be to buy something else and the thought of someone coming back like they’re getting a new watch & I’m a branch of goldsmiths (not that even they’d refund you) fills me with dread!
Pretty much every watch I’ve bought off sale section has had marks not mentioned
(some blatant ones that are not easily removed) and I’ve never backed a watch as it’s a used item I’ve taken a risk on. Buyers remorse or unrealistic expectations for some?
Edited...
Ok, scrub that I’ve just searched your sales post. The lugs were pretty bad if not mentioned, jeez what a shame! What did you use to remove the bracelet! Hedge trimmer haha?
Last edited by jameswrx; 29th November 2018 at 14:30.
I tried one on and while the quality was excellent I didn’t gel so went with the Pelagos. Couldn’t fault quality though. Very much industrial style compared to omega so maybe that didn’t help.
I’m not taking issue with their reason for wanting to send it back, as it was ultimately my gain. I didn’t take a hit on it and got a damn good watch back.
I’m happily living with the marks (since teased out with an ink eraser) because it’s that good a watch. That was the point I was trying to make with no disrespect intended to the buyer.
Although I’d be reluctant to attempt to sell a titanium watch again
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Swirlies and scuffs on titanium are often not the actual titanium but rather a scuff on the oxidized layer that forms - I too have found an ink eraser removes these marks.I’m not taking issue with their reason for wanting to send it back, as it was ultimately my gain. I didn’t take a hit on it and got a damn good watch back.
I’m happily living with the marks (since teased out with an ink eraser) because it’s that good a watch. That was the point I was trying to make with no disrespect intended to the buyer.
Although I’d be reluctant to attempt to sell a titanium watch again
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I have two Tudor and one Rolex. The Tudor i easily on par for build quality. The only reason I chose the way I did was aesthetics. (and a little bit on availability)
I've a BB GMT on order, my starting point was that I wanted an everyday watch to wear instead of my much loved 47 year old Rolex Red Sub. I did lust after a used Explorer II but felt the prices being demanded were pushing the envelope. Its not so much the actual price but recognition that a very good quality new watch was available for substantially less money. I've handled quite a few watches during my decision making process (the journey is just as important as the destination), I eliminated those watches I felt had unclear dials and too much going on on the dial, I needed a date function and could see a use for time zones and a power indicator. Tudor stood out for the quality feel and choice between a North Flag or BB GMT. The price range was certainly a plus point but these watches are in my view much nicer than some more expensive watches.
Tudor is intended to be the 'lesser' brand, and so it will be. Rolex aren't stupid.
In fact, given the remarkable ability of some Rolex models to appreciate in value, they're better long-term value .
Shame in many ways, but there you are. Rolex rules, like it or not.
Last edited by paskinner; 29th November 2018 at 15:31.
Had a few of both and tbh Tudors are very very nice, less of a complex walking around ‘Up North’ with a BB than a Sub wondering if it’s going to be robbed or noticed more being a Rolex. Tbh if Tudor make a BB58 GMT then I’ll be selling my Explorer and that’ll be the o my watch I’ll need as it’d be perfect for my needs...
You prefer the BB58 size? To be honest the GMT at 41mm sits very nicely on the wrist !
I just don’t see it as competition between them. Branding doesn’t beguile me or maybe I would own Rolex instead of Tudor. I like the styling better which is why I own them no other reason .do I feel “lesser” or “ruled” in any way - of course not.
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