The SBGA285G
39mm by 12.3mm, stainless steel, 10atm, 9R65 movement - £3,500
The SBGA203G
41mm by 12.5mm, stainless steel, 10atm, 9R65 movement - £4,750
I know prices are not an expression of manufacturing cost, but really what is supposed to tempt another £1,250 out of your wallet? The extra detail in the bracelet? The thicker indices? That precious extra steel?
Neither of them are LE or JDM, both available at those prices from both Seiko boutique and Jura. In the catalogues the specs are identical.
I've seen the two mods. The first seems to be positioned as a budget version. The power reserve dial is not as detailed or well finished, plus neither is the bracelet as you say. Also it doesn't have a capped seconds hand. Those are the differences but the pricing obviously doesn't reflect those but rather the market. I much prefer the size of the cheaper one!
I was wondering if one was a budget, or perhaps one an extra luxury. I don't like the idea of a budget Grand Seiko (or a "sports" GS for that matter) but I suppose it's a natural consequence of trying to make it into a freestanding brand. I guess those smaller indices are also less detailed?Originally Posted by mindforge
Can’t comment on the quality of the finish having handled neither but from the photos I prefer the 39mm version and the bracelet it’s on. Must get up to London one of these days to take a closer look at the GS’s.
Hope they're not going far down this route. Grand Seiko has to stand for exceptional quality or you might as well get a normal Seiko.
I don't have a good feeling about some of the latest efforts . Their reputation stands on the 'grammar' of their 60s designs. The more they stray, the uglier they get. To my eyes anyway.
The larger more expensive model seems to have a more matte dial than I expected on a GS. Looking at photos of the smaller one, that doesn't seem to be the case. Can you remember any difference in dial texture between the two?
I remember once getting a good long look at one of the quartz models and the dial itself seemed virtually impossible to focus on, the gloss was so deep and perfect.
On the black SBGX061 the dial appears to be a deep gloss black in the evening, but in the day is revealed as a matte black. The reflections on the crystal give it the appearance of gloss. I prefer it in the evening, a bottomless piano black, that’s when it really comes alive.
That was the one I got to handle at a g2G. In my recollection it was daytime, but pubs have dark dusky corners at all times, and I must have been in one of them. I remember admiring how the indices would catch even the tiniest hint of light, so I definitely wasn't bathed in sunshine....
This is a very good point - I had the belief that GS was very similar to Lange, maintaining the same standards across all price ranges, just variations/complications influencing price.
I'd actually be ok if the only difference was size and nothing else - a complete taking the cake moment but priced purely based on popularity no variation on quality.
For completeness sake, here's another Spring Drive GS, in between size, in between price, black dial, but with lume, the SBGA301J
(It reminds me of the old 2500-powered Omega AT that was on SC recently)
Someone on WUS had the same thought
Off-brand topic but that's why I can't get my head around the massive price difference (certainly in the grey market) between the Rolex Deepsea and Deepsea D-Blue. Must be the most expensive blue and green paint ever!
It took 12 posts for Rolex to come up? Disappointing.
Wouldn't have done it if Seiko had been in the title, tbf!
I'm with you, much prefer the 39mm
They charge quite a premium for the five row bracelet and the display case back.
More subtle is the slightly reccessed crown, chunkier indices and of course the extra few mm on the case size.
UK pricing can also be inconsistent and the same rate of exchange doesn't apply to all models, it's as if someone decides what price to charge rather than applying a standard calculation.
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Hands up, I had totally forgotten about the display back. Will the unseen movement have the same degree of finish? But that's not the point, I suppose - the display back gives to the purchaser a great perception of quality, and that's what drives the price difference.
The movements are of course, identical.
Seriously though, the UK pricing is arbitrary and doesn't follow a consistent formula.
I bought a foreign market model and converted the price to sterling for insurance purposes based on other well known models in the catalogue. When they finally brought a lesser version of my watch to the UK, the price was way higher than it should have been, even keeping up with price increases. It's not done at a consistent rate of exchange and my advice is to haggle if you feel a model is over priced for what it is.
Also is the SBGA203G a 'Master Shop' model in Japan? I think it might be and that bumps up the price a little as the model in Japan is officially only sold at selected retailers (though in practice widely available on the web). Master Shop models aren't necessary any better, just supposedly more limited in distribution.
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Last edited by AKM; 1st December 2018 at 11:36.
They've always had weird differences in pricing, and I assumed it reflected exchange rates on a specific day. Sometimes it has worked in our favour....models with quite large differences in Japan showing only minor differences here.
These days I'm only interested in the basic quartz versions, which are a bit more predictable. The spring-drive would tempt me if it didn't have that ugly 'power' dial.
It's funny, I used to dislike the PR indicators on Spring Drive dials, but I've got so used to seeing them there every time I look at a photo of one that they now seem an integral part of the style, like the date magnifier on a Rolex. I guess this is semiotics?
What puzzles me is that of all their 'mechanical ' ranges, the spring-drive seems to wind most efficiently. Even modest wear keeps it fully wound. So why the need for a power reserve when their other designs don't bother? Pity because I really admire the spring-drive concept. No European manufacturer has had the guts to persevere with such an unusual device.
Seiko is a company with real guts.
In my experience it depends upon how active you are, as well as whether you choose to take advantage of the 3-day power reserve by taking the watch off at weekends.
I'm very sedentary due to illness and my arms often don't sway enough to wind the watch. I also take the watch off when doing housework or if I'm stumbling about and don't want to smash it.
I regularly have to hand wind my Spring Drive to keep it running and find the power reserve is a useful feature. Seiko markets the 72-hour power reserve as meaning you can take the watch off Friday evening and have it still running Monday morning, the power reserve illustrates the process and is useful so see how much you have left. If you wear the watch 7-days a week, then maybe it's less useful.
The power reserve is quite discreet on my watch with minimal printing and disappears most of the time, though I accept that other models have three different colours of paint on the arc, the arc recessed into the dial and / or an applied metal scale.
In my opinion the 9S calibres with power reserve look worse than the Spring Drives just Google 'Grand Seiko SBGL' e.g. SBGL017
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Last edited by AKM; 2nd December 2018 at 22:26.
I used to be put off the power reserve until I got a Spring Drive and it's a function I actually use regularly, plus the finishing is nice to admire. Unlike a GMT hand that I have never used in anger despite my always working with other time zones.
Funnily enough I asked a very similar question when I collected my SBGN001 (9F 25th Anniversary GMT) a few months back. I looked at these two very models and was surprised at the cost difference. The more expensive one was better finished and looked more classy, but I'm not sure if it was worth the difference or not really.
I always admire the Spring Drives, but I haven't found quite the right one yet.
Grand Seiko and Great Grand Seiko!
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They both seem too overrated to me, it's just a watch.The SBGA285G
39mm by 12.3mm, stainless steel, 10atm, 9R65 movement - £3,500
The SBGA203G
41mm by 12.5mm, stainless steel, 10atm, 9R65 movement - £4,750
I know prices are not an expression of manufacturing cost, but really what is supposed to tempt another £1,250 out of your wallet? The extra detail in the bracelet? The thicker indices? That precious extra steel?
Neither of them are LE or JDM, both available at those prices from both Seiko boutique and Jura. In the catalogues the specs are identical. Using illustration templates is my preference. It allows me to create a project faster. I make use of https://masterbundles.com/stock-content/vector/ , where you can pay a minimal sum to purchase a collection of vectors on a variety of subjects. It makes a logo more distinctive.
Last edited by bobocat; 22nd December 2022 at 15:41.
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