More bike related stuff

[Gyp]

Watched it earlier today. I like his content even though he is promoting products more and more.

Lots of youtubers are promoting products mid-video these days. Much as it pains me, these people are producing content as a business and it'll be bringing in more revenue than they are losing through folk choosing not to watch. There are other youtubers that have an awful lot of advert breaks in the content, and I prefer the mid-video promotions as I can fast forward through them.

However in a rare moment of modesty he recalled trying to better 130 mph on the M56 towards the Liverpool tunnels, he experienced a speed wobble so great it took in his words “ all three lanes to stop” :)

I've had a 3-lane wobble on the A1(M) but with a CX500, though to be honest it was at about 70 and the bike was loaded in the back of a Marina van. The CX and (I think) a CB100N were both loaded tail-in with their wheels off so sitting on their frame tubes, but the weight was all behind the rear axle of the van. Oops. I did the rest of the 250 mile journey at about 40.

[Dave+63]

The CBX1000 wasn’t a technical leap by any means and certainly not one that took the bikes limits beyond that of the rider; it was just a big heavy bike with two more cylinders than most of the other big heavy bikes of the era.

The real game changer bikes were the CB750, the Z1, the GPZ900R (which really was better than most riders), the CB900R fireblade and the R1.*

The CBX had nothing and did nothing that moved the game forward, it was typical Honda of the era, good looking but overly complicated.


* You could possibly add the RC30 to the list but that was really a race bike.

[Saint-Just]

You’re forgetting the CBR 600 that was the first to reach triple figures in bhp, the VFR 750, not to mention the GSX-R series.

[Dave+63]

You’re forgetting the CBR 600 that was the first to reach triple figures in bhp, the VFR 750, not to mention the GSX-R series.

Personally, I think the CBR600 was really just a response to the GPZ600 which really started the 600 class, the VFR750, whilst excellent, wasn’t really mainstream in the scheme of things (everyone else was doing across the frame fours and never followed Honda’s lead). The GSXR750 though could certainly be included in the list.

[Saint-Just]

Personally, I think the CBR600 was really just a response to the GPZ600 which really started the 600 class, the VFR750, whilst excellent, wasn’t really mainstream in the scheme of things (everyone else was doing across the frame fours and never followed Honda’s lead). The GSXR750 though could certainly be included in the list.

What made the CBR 600 a game changer is being the first to reach 100 bhp. While the GPZ may have been the first super sport in that cubage, the CBR had more power and effectively killed it within a couple of years.
And while the engine architecture of the VFR didn't catch on, the single arm did, and it defined the sports tourer (and still does today; it's probably the one I'd buy today although I'd choose the last version of the 750)

[Enoch]

The original VFR, didn’t have a single swing arm, and was basically a knee jerk reaction from Honda to put behind them the disaster that was the VF750.
It did succeed in winning back customers and confidence in the V4 configuration, but I don’t think it was a game changer in development.

The GSXR 750 however, moved the goalposts, and at around 180-190kgs showed the riding public that bikes didn’t have to weigh a ton anymore. That would be the bike I’d choose as a game changer

[adrianw]

I had a VFR 750 for every day at the same time I had my Harris, 1993 ish, it was a good bike never missed a beat, just worked, had it for about three years

[learningtofly]

The original VFR, didn’t have a single swing arm, and was basically a knee jerk reaction from Honda to put behind them the disaster that was the VF750.
It did succeed in winning back customers and confidence in the V4 configuration, but I don’t think it was a game changer in development.

The GSXR 750 however, moved the goalposts, and at around 180-190kgs showed the riding public that bikes didn’t have to weigh a ton anymore. That would be the bike I’d choose as a game changer

I've found myself drooling over the GSXR 750 as a second bike for months. It's patently obvious that it would be a complete waste on me, though (and luckily I recognise that).

[Dave+63]

What made the CBR 600 a game changer is being the first to reach 100 bhp. While the GPZ may have been the first super sport in that cubage, the CBR had more power and effectively killed it within a couple of years.
And while the engine architecture of the VFR didn't catch on, the single arm did, and it defined the sports tourer (and still does today; it's probably the one I'd buy today although I'd choose the last version of the 750)

Whilst it is a matter of history that Honda conquered the 600 super sport division with their CBR600, they took what Kawasaki had done with the GPZ600 and improved it in every area. They continued to improve it throughout its life so it always stayed on top. The original “Jelly mould” 600s were only at about 85bhp and it was the Kawasaki ZZR600 of 1990 that claimed to be the first 100bjp 600.

Even so, power increases are just progression, the fireblade was less powerful than the opposition when it was released but was much lighter and handled much better. It was its performance and weight that made it a game changer.

[Groundrush]

I've found myself drooling over the GSXR 750 as a second bike for months. It's patently obvious that it would be a complete waste on me, though (and luckily I recognise that).

Brilliant bikes, and having owned a few sports bikes I’d say the gsxr750 is probably the best real world sports bike ever made. All the handling of a 600 and most of the usable power of a 1000 (if you thrash it hard enough). This is my 2nd k4 variant, arguably one of the best iterations as it’s about the lightest of the bunch and not really bettered in terms of power, even today. And this is one of the nicest examples I’ve ever seen.

[learningtofly]

Brilliant bikes, and having owned a few sports bikes I’d say the gsxr750 is probably the best real world sports bike ever made. All the handling of a 600 and most of the usable power of a 1000 (if you thrash it hard enough). This is my 2nd k4 variant, arguably one of the best iterations as it’s about the lightest of the bunch and not really bettered in terms of power, even today. I’ve known this one for years, belonged to a mate of mine, low mileage, well looked after, 2 sets of bodywork, the original set is almost mint, with some rather tasty upgrades including Maxton suspension which gives it the smoothest ride I’ve ever come across, from any bike ever. Fabulous bike. Unfortunately I have too many bikes and something needs to go this spring, not sure yet if this will be one of them.

If I manage to build my bike storage buy then I'll be sorely tempted!

[Saint-Just]

.../... Even so, power increases are just progression, the fireblade was less powerful than the opposition when it was released but was much lighter and handled much better. It was its performance and weight that made it a game changer.

Yes but that is why the CBR was more a game changer than the GPZ which was a brilliant new idea but ultimately a failure for Kawasaki as they failed to develop it to even match the competition.

Unlike the Z650 which remains the reference when we talk of 650s

The original VFR, didn’t have a single swing arm, and was basically a knee jerk reaction from Honda to put behind them the disaster that was the VF750.
It did succeed in winning back customers and confidence in the V4 configuration, but I don’t think it was a game changer in development.

The GSXR 750 however, moved the goalposts, and at around 180-190kgs showed the riding public that bikes didn’t have to weigh a ton anymore. That would be the bike I’d choose as a game changer

You're correct, the carat is the one I had in mind. The first one completely passed me by at the time, demonstrating if needed you are also correct in saying the first version wasn't a game changer. The 1990 model, however...

I also agree that the GSX-R 750 was probably the most significant game changer of all, and at a price that many could afford, too. There are few Suz that really left their mark, the 500T is the first one that registered on my radar. The 850 G is the second (the 750 GT went over my head, figuratively. A friend had one and he wouldn't follow me on the 500T). Then came the GSX 750*


I am leaving out the DRs because they addressed a different segment, but what a bike the 350 DR was!

[Thewatchbloke]

^^^I have fond memories of the Suzuki 500T, a vastly underrated classic these days and an underrated bike back in the day.

[Dave+63]

As an aside and something I wasn’t aware of until recently, when Honda put the Vtec system on the VRF in about 2000, they reverted back to chain for the cam drive.

[Enoch]

Me circa 1983 aged 21. Next to my 1981 GS850G are reg Birmingham bike show.

[Dave+63]

Me circa 1983 aged 21. Next to my 1981 GS850G are reg Birmingham bike show.

It probably wasn’t but that looks like my GSX250 in the background, right down to the chrome rack.

[andy tims]

I'm biased but for me the GSXR 750 is one of the greatest sports bike of all time and perhaps as iconic is the Ducati 916/996.

I got my K4 as a pre-registered bike in January 2005. I commuted on it, did my first track days with it & sold it after 3.5 years having done 35,000 trouble free miles on it. The only upgrade I fitted was braided lines.



It was followed by a K7 that was also a pre-registered bike. I did 21,000 miles on in 15 months before writing it off - my fault.



My final 750 was a K8. I got it at a year old in 2009 with only 1,100 miles on the clock. I fitted braided lines pretty well straight away.



In 2010 I had the only serious "crash" on the bike. I was in the fast group at Donington (National Circuit) when a rider missed his braking point into the Goddard Chicane & wiped me out. I broke my tib & fib but the bike got off relatively lightly & ebay came to the rescue.

In about 2012 when I was doing a few more track days, I upgraded the suspension & got some forged Dymag wheels. The already good handling was transformed. The bike was sensational.

In 2014 I converted it to track only spec after a trip to the gravel trap at Sheene Curve on the Brands Hatch GP circuit saw pretty well every panel badly scratched. The only other upgrade was an Accossato brake master cylinder which made a huge difference to the braking feel. Especially on slicks, I used to pass lots of people in the braking zones on track.



I treated it to a new set of track fairing's in 2021 as the originals were looking a bit 2nd hand by then. The odd low-side & a couple of gravel visits didn't help, but dropping it off the trailer at Mallory Park was the tipping point.



I sold the bike in December 2022 having taken in to 28,000 miles including around 12,000 track miles.

None of my 750's ever let me down or needed anything other than routine servicing. When I was tracking the K8 it got an oil & filter change every 5 to 6 track days. I never saw a trace of swarf in the oil.

The guy that bought my K8 from me, took the trouble to phone up after a few days on track in Spain to thank me for selling him such a brilliant bike.

It was only at real power circuits like Snetterton where slower riders on 1000's would either re-take me, or just pull out the gap I'd closed in the corners that had me thinking about chopping it in for a 1000cc track bike.

I've had other superb bikes, but my old K8 has a very special in my heart.

[Quality Man]

CBR600FM and FX. I never progressed to anything larger sportsbike wise, these were fast enough for me.






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[j0hnbarker]

Did someone mention gear driven cams on a Honda V4?

[Enoch]

It’s funny.. lots of biking folk hold Honda in high regard when it comes to reliability and build quality etc, but from my experience, I’ve always maintained that Suzuki make the best engines period. Ok build quality maybe not be up there with Honda, but engine wise they’re pretty much bullet proof.👍

[Dave+63]

Did someone mention gear driven cams on a Honda V4?

The VF100R

They’re a rare old beast these days and a somewhat forgotten gem, being overshadowed by the CB1100R and the RC30.

That one looks a stunner John.

[higham5]

Personally, I think the CBR600 was really just a response to the GPZ600 which really started the 600 class, the VFR750, whilst excellent, wasn’t really mainstream in the scheme of things (everyone else was doing across the frame fours and never followed Honda’s lead). The GSXR750 though could certainly be included in the list.

Dave my GPz600R ( 1985) had a humble 69 bhp, but it felt mighty quick riding it from North Wales to Rochdale every day.

I think when big K developed it ultimately into the 636 they found seventy more horses from the same engine. ;) 69 to 130 thats some improvement given I have just read the new Ktm 1350 has four more horsepower than the outgoing 1290.

[Dave+63]

Dave my GPz600R ( 1985) had a humble 69 bhp, but it felt mighty quick riding it from North Wales to Rochdale every day.

I think when big K developed it ultimately into the 636 they found seventy more horses from the same engine. ;) 69 to 130 thats some improvement given I have just read the new Ktm 1350 has four more horsepower than the outgoing 1290.

That was quick in the day, especially after the GPz550. They’ve certainly come a long way, I had a new ZZR600 in 1990 which I saw 155mph on and a B1H 636 as a track bike which were around 110bhp IIRC. That was a 2003 bike so another 20bhp in twenty years sounds about right. That’s 10bhp or so more than the first fireblade.

Crazy isn’t it?

[pugster]

Gpz 600 r was the first bike i purchased after passing my test, at that time most of the fast road riders had the yamaha genesis , friend of mine still has a Gpz 750 (he has rebuilt a few of them over the years )

[Dave+63]

Gpz 600 r was the first bike i purchased after passing my test, at that time most of the fast road riders had the yamaha genesis , friend of mine still has a Gpz 750 (he has rebuilt a few of them over the years )

He’s not the only one, I have four in the garage, but not all runners and only one close to standard.

Here’s

Here they are


The closest is an 83 frame and will eventually have 2007 gsxr running gear and ZR7 engine and electrics

The second is an 83 bike with zxr400 running gear

The third an 84 A2 pretty much standard for restoration

The fourth is an 83 A1 with no front end (will be zx6r and an nc24 (vfr400) rear end.

[hhhh]

Love it in the green, Dave.

I recently picked this one up as part of a new venture with a mate…

[Dave+63]

That’s a nice one Howard, it’s a bit later than mine (A5?) but with original exhausts and still shiny engine cases, it certainly looks a well cared for and probably very low mileage example.

I’d be very happy if that were a fifth one in my garage!

[hhhh]

That’s a nice one Howard, it’s a bit later than mine (A5?) but with original exhausts and still shiny engine cases, it certainly looks a well cared for and probably very low mileage example.

I’d be very happy if that were a fifth one in my garage!

Cheers Dave. It’s a 1986 GPZ750F, it’s done 24k and it’s very original and very shiny.

[SimonH]

Wow, I was just going to post a library pic of mine in those Benetton colours...sadly it got stolen  I'm not sure the CBR600 was a game changer, more an evolution of the class.

Two bikes I think are game changers: Laverda Jota - the first bike challenging the Japanese levels of performance at the time but handled...and the Kawasaki GPZ900R, performance and handling with practicality...if I win the lottery I'll own both (not that I do it ).

The other game changer is the Fireblade, owning the CBR600 at the time the noise in the press about it in the mags etc was immense.

Here's mine:

[andy tims]

It’s funny.. lots of biking folk hold Honda in high regard when it comes to reliability and build quality etc, but from my experience, I’ve always maintained that Suzuki make the best engines period. Ok build quality maybe not be up there with Honda, but engine wise they’re pretty much bullet proof.

Great gearboxes too.

[Saint-Just]

Suzuki was the best bang for buck you could buy. Yamaha was the most innovative, Kawasaki the most performance-focused and indeed Honda the best built quality. For the Japanese brands.

[Dave+63]

Cheers Dave. It’s a 1986 GPZ750F, it’s done 24k and it’s very original and very shiny.

I’ve never heard of them referred to as a GPZ750F before, every day is a school day. I’ve always known them as the GPz750A (officially ZX750A) and always with the lower case z. The upper case z being used on the GPZ900R’s little brother.

Seems I was wrong all this time though!

[Dave+63]

Suzuki was the best bang for buck you could buy. Yamaha was the most innovative, Kawasaki the most performance-focused and indeed Honda the best built quality. For the Japanese brands.

I was going to disagree with regards to Yamaha but then I remembered the five valve heads and the Exup valve.

[hhhh]

I’ve never heard of them referred to as a GPZ750F before, every day is a school day. I’ve always known them as the GPz750A (officially ZX750A) and always with the lower case z. The upper case z being used on the GPZ900R’s little brother.

Seems I was wrong all this time though!

Not just you. I hadn’t heard of the F variant either. But Google tells me the only difference with the ‘F’ is that it was slightly more powerful, having an additional 5 or 6 bhp. It is still GPz with a small z though.

[Enoch]

Great gearboxes too.

I have to say that from recent experience the gearboxes used in the water cooled 1200 triumph twins is fantastic👍

[Saint-Just]

I was going to disagree with regards to Yamaha but then I remembered the five valve heads and the Exup valve.

I was also thinking of the segments of the market they created with XT 500 (SR), RdLC, TDR. And yes the YPVS.

[Dave+63]

Not just you. I hadn’t heard of the F variant either. But Google tells me the only difference with the ‘F’ is that it was slightly more powerful, having an additional 5 or 6 bhp. It is still GPz with a small z though.

Yes, I noticed that on the spec sheet too, that’s about the same as an 810 big bore.

[Der Amf]

Getting Ordinance Survey Landrangers nos. 04, 98-101 & 106 was an excellent present. Equal to that joy was stealing this underemployed utensil from my mum's kitchen —



— this should bring a few more muddy spots such as the rear shock within range of my cleaning.

[higham5]

Great gearboxes too.

In the late 70’s I used to go to Santa Pod and watch the “ new” Gs1000’s running nitrous or methanol and all manner of blowers. Super quick standing quarters probably one and half to two times stock power and they ran all day long. Imagine the over engineered bottom ends clutches gearboxes etc. What a bike

Steve

[Enoch]

This model, and the later Katana 1000 would make it into my dream garage.

[higham5]

This model, and the later Katana 1000 would make it into my dream garage.

I think Sally’s dad at A&D is selling his original Katana. They were prepping when I was in there two weeks ago :)

[Dave+63]

This model, and the later Katana 1000 would make it into my dream garage.

I’m pretty sure that the Katana was made at the same time, if not before the GSX1100 and that particular model was later still (85/86 IIRC).

Whilst the Katana would make my dream garage, I’ve never been a fan of any of the bikes of that era with 16” front wheels.

[Enoch]

There was nowt wrong with the GPZ900 with a 16” front wheel😎🤓 I had an 85 with 16” and a 92 with 17”. I much preferred the earlier one.

[Enoch]

I think Sally’s dad at A&D is selling his original Katana. They were prepping when I was in there two weeks ago :)

Andy from Woods also has a 1000 katana, it could do with a bit of love, but he’d never sell it. It’s the 1000 I like👍

[Dave+63]

There was nowt wrong with the GPZ900 with a 16” front wheel😎🤓 I had an 85 with 16” and a 92 with 17”. I much preferred the earlier one.

True, it’s a personal thing, if I were to buy a GPZ900R it would be an A7 or A8 though.

WRT the big Katanas, most were 1100 with a limited production run of 1000s for racing homologation.

[Groundrush]

On the subject of classic Japanese big bangers, here’s my Harris F1 (XR69) which I’m in the process of rebuilding, albeit very slowly. Currently with a GSXR 750 slingshot motor but I’m tempted to fit either a slabby GSXR 1100 or a bandit 1200 motor to make it a bit more “interesting” but the 750 would be good enough for a road bike. Also unsure about doing the Mick Grant/Graeme Crosby replica thing or whether to make it a bit more real world friendly, maybe even a street fighter of some sort. The last pic is how I bought it, it looked good from a distance but it had been thrown together, totally unrideable. A real money pit if ever there was one.

[Enoch]

I think I’d have to turn that into a Wes Cooley endurance rep😎😎^^^

[Tifa]

Any issues getting that chain to line up with that 180? in there?

[W124]

It’s blowing a gale outside, so it’s a good time to start this project bike


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[W124]

The PD is a distant relative of my R80 ST, this is likely as close as I will get to owning a true ‘80’s icon