Reply With QuoteNever a truer word!Originally Posted by spareparts
:-)
I will make one reply with 3 points, only to address your points made above, as ultimately you are responsible for your own health and well-being. However, we also have a duty of care and degree of responsibility for keeping others on the road safe through our own actions.
A)B) I did not suggest you should not be on a bike again. I said you should get well 100% before riding.
But you have already said:
Well, clearly you are not. You are not 100%, and I am concerned your illness affects your riding ability.
C) Filtering is a regular part of riding, I agree. I regularly ride in and through London east-west at least 3-4 times a week currently, and have done so for decades. I understand the risks of filtering. Reaction time to avert sudden pull outs and pedestrians and opening doors are all down to our physical and mental ability to react and either stop or avert in time. You forget that I previously had a serious RTA that resulted in 3y of rehab when someone ran their red lights, so I am not a superhero here. I speak from a position of both experience, care, and wishing you well (see point A).
Last edited by spareparts; 22nd July 2023 at 10:32.
Never a truer word!
:-)
Noted, Adrien, and I appreciate your motives for posting. I should point out, though, that (having successfully addressed the issue of my preference for a lighter bike) my mental health and general sense of awareness are absolutely fine. If that wasn't the case then I wouldn't be riding.
Just to add - my response to Ian above was in jest. I'd have thought that was obvious, though.
Had to happen eventually, Ian.
Filtering - I’ve been riding for the best part of 40 years - I just don’t do it, the risk isn’t worth it, I’m never in that much of a hurry. If I was driving my car I’d be stitting there so I just wait
A few weeks back there was actually a police bike chasing another bike at around 80 mph right past the cafes where folk were milling about.. it’s actually on YouTube if you type in Raven bike chase..
Personally the police presence has never bothered me in the slightest, main reason being my bikes are all totally legal and I don’t ride around like a moron.🤓
Over 50 years riding here, and agree totally, never seen the need, we meet our maker soon enough, why risk bringing that appointment forward.
The day I past my test the examiner said these wise words to me, " Know your limitations "
I've no dog in the fight here but will say there are some very wise words being spoken here, as with all things in life, don't run before you can walk.
I think I've addressed those concerns, so will assume this is a general comment. Otherwise, I'd have to say that it's getting quite tiresome.
On the subject of filtering, those of us that live and/or ride in urban environments generally accept filtering as a necessary evil. The trick is to understand how to mitigate the risk (not foolproof, of course, as i've recently demonstrated rather effectively.)
My 2 pence.
If you're going to filter (and I do) - it's essential to do it defensively.
Total focus, total concentration and an assumption that all the other road users* have not only failed to see your approach but are completely aware of your presence. Speed down, brakes covered and if the traffic starts moving quicker then I'm straight back in line.
Not preaching here, just saying what works for me.
Ride safe, y'all.
R
* It is quite sobering to be on emerency services motorbike, headlights pulsing, blue lights flashing, sirens on and yet to see how often other road users can remain unaware of you.
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
I used to commute into central London daily on the bike and filtering was an essential element, otherwise the advantage of being on the bike was totally lost. It’s a mindset that you get into and over time you develop a spider sense for the risks, which allows you to mitigate.
That said, every single one of the offs I’ve had over the years (there have been a few, none of them serious, thankfully) has been either directly or indirectly related to filtering, whether my fault or not.
These days I ride for leisure only, and I filter rarely if ever.
Always the sarcastic and aggressive undertone, you just can't see the wood for the trees can you.
Hope that's not to tiresome to take on board!
Nothing sarcastic in my post. Signs of irritation quite possibly, though.
Perhaps just accept that I don’t appreciate the implications of irresponsibility (and read what I’ve actually posted), and we can avoid conflict spoiling a thread which to date has been conducted in the spirit that was intended.
imo just putting your backside on a bike is taking a chance these days the way users drive and how much more traffic there is makes it a totally different animal to say 20 yrs ago , thats regardless of filtering , overtaking or any other maneuver on a bike.
personally im willing to take the risk as biking helps my mental health as much as it gets me from a to b , you take a risk everyday as soon as you step out the door that it might be your last so do the things you enjoy.
A biker friend of mine suffered a stroke a few years back. Against his will, the doctors took the steps to have his biking licence revoked whilst he was going through rehab and recovery. He was broken and distraught, we were all concerned for him and obviously ‘lost a biker mate’ for a while on rideouts and craic, but it was for his own and others safety and well-being.
A couple years later, he has made a strong recovery and regained sufficient health that he re-tested and was given his biking licence back. He is actively riding again and enjoying it, and I am also comfortable riding with him. On reflection, he realises that the time off was necessary for him to recover and reduced the risk to other road users. Confidence returned - his own and others in him.
I don't wish to get involved in any personal differences but to simply offer some thoughts, one in particular.
It's understandable that we might get a bit defensive when others provide advice that we perceive to be critical...
When I joined an advanced riding group they used one of many acronyms (and they have a few) which was POWDERS which, on analysis, might all seem obvious but really does act as a positive reminder, before each ride, of the checks one should carry out before, in this context, getting on a bike. There are various versions of this acronym and some don't include the final 'S' while others might not attach the same meanings to it.
However, in the version I learnt, the 'S' stands not only for the obvious checks (suspension/steering) but also for "self", meaning that if the rider isn't 100% confident in his/her mental and physical state, he/she should consider whether it is appropriate/safe to get on the bike.
As bikers we might believe in the power of riding to help us overcome some of our personal issues, which may well be true, but it won't help us overcome all.
Wise words, Bob (in terms of interpretation of the "S" in particular). Having been unwell for quite a while - not as a consequence of a stroke, fortunately - self appraisal becomes instinctive and routine; in fact, I have very careful management regimes to allow myself freedoms that (at present) would otherwise be difficult to achieve. That said, it should be the case for everyone, given the vulnerability we experience every time we go out on two wheels.
A sobering day yesterday.. I was asked to join a motorcycle cortège following the hearse of a local rider that was sadly killed on the Bala road a couple of weeks back. I didn’t know the rider, but it put a lump in my throat seeing all his family and friends paying their last respects.
His coffin was carried into the crematorium by 6 of his mates all wearing full leathers.
There is filtering and then there is filtering.
I put my lights on in daylight and try to be seen without dazzling.
I dont go fast.
I look in the wing mirrors to see if they are on the phone.
I constantly glance right and left, if there is a gap in the traffic I expect someone to swap lanes without looking.
Without fail I stop or give way if I am unsure what the driver is doing or going to do.
I never go between tight trucks/caravans etc.nor in front if they cant see down on me.
If its not in anyway safe I dont do it (yes I know).
Couple of days ago a bike learner came up behind me then went through the traffic at pace,I just let him go (he needs more training/risk awareness).
I will follow a good rider and often let other riders going fast pass me by pulling over.
Health...I held onto my HGV licence for a long time after "I" knew I couldn't drive a truck again.
I wouldnt have driven unless I recovered and was safe,but it was like psychological crutch holding onto it.
Eventually with time I just let it lapse.
I ride my bike with pains most people would not drive a car with,I declared everything to DVLA who said its fine.
When I feel am not safe I will stop the same as I did with the HGV.
Strangely I still have my H track licence and am sure I could drive an APC quite easily off road,auto gearbox and tillers no sweat and I miss it.
Kudos. It takes courage to admit, pause (or stop), and know that even if you could, you shouldn't, for the safety of all involved.Health...I held onto my HGV licence for a long time after "I" knew I couldn't drive a truck again.
I wouldnt have driven unless I recovered and was safe,but it was like psychological crutch holding onto it.
Eventually with time I just let it lapse.
I ride my bike with pains most people would not drive a car with,I declared everything to DVLA who said its fine.
When I feel am not safe I will stop the same as I did with the HGV.
Strangely I still have my H track licence and am sure I could drive an APC quite easily off road,auto gearbox and tillers no sweat and I miss it.
All good tips. Also, watch for front wheels starting to turn (and - obviously - indicators suddenly flashing).
The problem (as acknowledged numerous times above) is that you can routinely do all of those things but there'll still be a residual risk. I've avoided filtering collisions many times by being very, very careful/aware, and I was being just as careful as ever the other week. However, at the end of the day there are situations outside of your control that can make a collision unavoidable.
For me, living in the city and not filtering would make it pointless being on a bike. I just need to reassess my strategy going forward, as there are a whole load of scenarios that result in different risk profiles.
I agree we can only lessen the risk some thing's people do on the road defies belief.
Riding out in the sticks on single lane roads most car drivers dont slow down, if they have a wheel goes of the tarmac its no big deal it can be dire for us.
Its like a 3D game of chess trying to work out what people will do.
I had a woman in front of me suddenly pull of left from a B road no indicators into a wide farm entrance,then immediately U turn back onto the road,I wasnt riding close behind (I always leave a safety gap) and had my lights on.
Even so I had to swerve over double white lines into on coming traffic,thankfully the first car driver coming towards me was on the ball and stopped.
What gets me is if she had done me harm all she would get is a small fine and maybe a few points on her licence.
Its one reason I like riding in Spain, big empty spaces and very few cars to avoid.
You can just ride and enjoy yourself.
What happened to the "Harley Livewire but at about half the price" thing?
I know I've not yet picked up the bike I bought last week, so looking at bikes on the internet is a bad idea, however... it struck me that I'd not heard or seen anything about the Livewire for a while.
I recall the HD Livewire being reviewed as actually quite good, but the £28k price tag being somewhat off-putting. The spinning off of Livewire as a separate company was reportedly going to lead to the same bike being sold as a Livewire One for half the cost of the HD branded version.
Setting aside the whole "is it even a motorbike if it's electric" thing, £14k sounded like a reasonable deal.
Hmmm.
Same with my bike Andy, well, apart from the Akra end can, but I have kept the baffle in. My plate is full legal etc. The thing that got me was last time I went was an unmarked police bike, I think it was a black Honda Blade, was buzzing me from behind. Almost as though he was ‘provoking’ me to let it rip. When I didnt he just flew past and a bit later further up the road he was parked up with 2 marked cars. That was just outside Beeston on the A49. Funnily enough though, I didnt see any actually at the Raven which I thought was odd as I usually see a few there. But yeah, I get there are a lot of daft riders down there racing around and causing a nuisance of themselves as well. I did eat a rather grotty burger there, wont fall for that again, thats for sure ?
Stuart
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Me neither, unless it’s walking pace, and even then rarely.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
I had a test ride on a Harley Davidson Livewire and really liked it. I was seriously tempted when I heard about the Livewire 1 at around £14k so was pretty disappointed when the actual price tag was revealed.What happened to the "Harley Livewire but at about half the price" thing?
I know I've not yet picked up the bike I bought last week, so looking at bikes on the internet is a bad idea, however... it struck me that I'd not heard or seen anything about the Livewire for a while.
I recall the HD Livewire being reviewed as actually quite good, but the £28k price tag being somewhat off-putting. The spinning off of Livewire as a separate company was reportedly going to lead to the same bike being sold as a Livewire One for half the cost of the HD branded version.
Setting aside the whole "is it even a motorbike if it's electric" thing, £14k sounded like a reasonable deal.
Hmmm.
I think Livewire has been spun out of HD as a separate company. This would allow electrified development to not be impeded by HD’s drive to have the biggest V twin ICE engine out there. The two companies that I see gaining traction on E bikes are Zero and Maeving. Zero do the range , naked tourer sports. Maeving looks to be a city bike with a 40 mile range that appeals to hipsters.
You’re correct, Livewire is now split off from HD. When that happened in the USA, the Livewire1 was retailing at $15k or 50% of the previous HD price. Once over here however, the reduction was nearer 20%.
Livewire are expanding the range and will no doubt match most of the Zero range within the gear future; I can’t comment on the small commuter stuff as I really haven’t taken an interest.
There is also the Energica offerings but they’re at the upper end of the market at the moment so probably won’t be competing in the same market as Zero and Livewire.
One of my issues though, is how well will the batteries cope if only used in the summer months?
The biggest catch I can see with the Zero tourer is that the range is only 85 miles at 70mph and takes an hour to recharge.
The Triumph TE-1 (at final prototype stage) is the best of the lot, or will be.
Got to agree T, in MCN a Triumph engineer remarked” unlike other manufacturers who build the bike around the batteries/ motor, we took a std frame, put in a motor and then said where do we situate the batteries” The end result is battery packs in the swing arm tail piece headstock, lots of little cells wired to be a coherent pack.
Each to their own, but I only started riding to beat the traffic jams on my regular commute to work when I was working on the planning of Terminal 5, so my mindset is if you don’t, then you might as well drive a car.
Last edited by andy tims; 24th July 2023 at 12:58.
Andy
Wanted - Damasko DC57
Really? I’ve always enjoyed riding my bikes for the freedom and how it makes me free but being unable to filter doesn’t want to make me drive a car instead - your suggesting that you ride you bike to get from A to B in the fastest manor
That’s why I started riding - to avoid sitting in traffic on the A3 / M25. On the bike it was reliably 45 to 50 minutes. In the car it was anything from 55 minutes to 2 hours. Typically nearer 2 hours Monday morning or Friday evening.
Now I just do it because it makes sense to me to make progress. Why wouldn’t you?
Andy
Wanted - Damasko DC57
On a side note just had my renewal from Hastings - now storing the bike in my daughter garage and declared my motorax thatcham disklock
I was pleased with the £111 price down from £180 last year
That sense of freedom hardly exists when you're commuting along with tens of thousands of people doing the same on a clogged up motorway. And that is when the weather is fair. In this case the choice is purely utilitarian, and you put up with the weather (and the associated gear) because on balance the time you save is worth more to you than the risks and discomfort.
It doesn't stop you from enjoying a ride on your chosen roads the rest of the time; just not in that commuting function .
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Anyone who is willing to sit on a bike sandwiched between 2 cars/vans/trucks should re-evaluate their understanding of what is safe road positioning on a bike. It is safer to always ensure you have an exit route (ie, clear space in front of you) in case a vehicle approaches from behind without being able to stop in time, or the vehicle in front of you makes an emergency stop. In either scenario, you need to be able to take an emergency manoeuvre and escape the situation by accelerating away to avoid a collision.
The bike test from over 20 years ago and the current bike test (in London) expects you to filter, and not filtering can incur minor points for failing to filter [safely].
My Ex’s uncle was the chief bike instructor for South Yorkshire police in Wakefield, must have been about 15 years he was observing a Blue light training exercise with 4 marked BMWs on Light with sirens on when a woman pulled out directly in front of them, took 1 out another hit a fence and the others got around the debris. She admitted she never looked and had the radio loud.
Me, when I get on my bike I treat everyone as if they are out to kill me !!
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Collected my refurbed Thruxton wheels and engine cases for the bobber project..
Enoch, looking good 👍
They look excellent! Converting the Bonneville wheels to tubeless is something I would really like to do / have done.
It’s not without its problems, as I discovered when I came to get the tyres fitted. The first place couldn’t get them on, and we’re concerned that their machine would scratch the ceramic coating..
The second place also struggled and only managed it after leaving the tyres in tyre warmers for a couple of hours before fitting.
The problem stems from the tubeless kit filling the “well” or drop where the spokes are. The usual way to fit the tyres is to push the bead into this drop and then get the other side over the rim. This couldn’t be done with the tubeless kit filling the space where the bead would normally go..
That makes sense, I hadn’t even considered the affect on the drop. Food for thought.
I don't envy your tyre guy when it comes to removing them but it all looks magnificent Enoch!
I’ve spoken to the company that fitted the kit, and they said it’s the first time they’ve come across this.. I’ll probably take the wheels back to them when new tyres are due..
https://www.central-wheel.co.uk/
^^^ Top company Central Wheels, they did a cracking job of my Rapide wheels, coachlined rims and stainless spokes.
I spotted a police bike probably as far back as I could see in my rear mirrors. Was amazed how long it took for it to reach me given the poor observation skills of so many drivers.
Clearly a lot of people only ever look forward, or use a mirror (sometimes) to see if they can move.
Whilst I didn’t enjoy it at the time, my car instructor used to hold up a piece of card over my rear view and ask me the colour of the car behind me.
Drilled mirrors into me, that’s for sure & I still track cars from behind me until
I know they have passed. I quite enjoy it tbh, and it makes me safer.
Re filtering- the only (touch wood) crash on the road I’ve had was 30 years ago, when someone hadn’t noticed that there was a stationary queue of traffic. I was at the back on my bike and he hit me at an approximate 30 mph. I bounced well as was young but he smashed my bike, and the car in front, up. I should have filtered to the front as I’ve done ever since.
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