Non functional movement from eBay, discovered after a year

[ernestrome]

Hi, I'd appreciate your thoughts on a little watch related issue. I bought a movement described as new old stock last year on eBay. Took me a while to get round to sending it off to a watch repairer. The repairer comes back to me saying it's dead and looks like a used movement. I ask the seller to explain and refund me as it's not as described. I say the delay is not material, he says it's been too long, he bought it as new and then sold it on as such. Not much money involved (£20) but thinking of going to small claims on principle/out of anger. Thanks in advance.

[seikopath]

last year? really? twenty quid. really?

[ernestrome]

If it's not as described then the time is not material. Recovering the money's not the issue.

[seikopath]

If it's not as described then the time is not material. Recovering the money's not the issue.

mate, if this is what your like over a twenty quid eBay dud, then i hope you never get divorced!

[Indio]

I keep a file just in case.

Yes - that may be useful some day given the amount involved..

[Van Diemen]

The amount isn’t even relevant here.
It’s been a year.
Not easy to lay blame.

[Onelasttime]

I think you should file this one under 'Life's too short'.

[RustyBin5]

Move on. It’s been a year - for the price of a round of drinks .....

[woodacre1983]

Mate. Seriously after a year? For the value of £20 is it worth the effort? If everybody went to court over such small issues think what a place it would be to live in! Get over it.


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[learningtofly]

Is it 1st April?

[ernestrome]

I will suck it up then and leave it at that.

[seikopath]

If you are earning anything more than £0.24 per hour, then i think that your decision makes sound financial sense

[ernestrome]

What I suspect has happened is that the seller replaced their broken movement then flogged the broken one. That's pretty scummy for 20 quid.

The CD player analogy doesn't really work, thanks for taking the time though.

[Lampoc]

The CD player analogy doesn't really work, thanks for taking the time though.

Corsa boot floor. I did a crafty edit...

[woodacre1983]

What I suspect has happened is that the seller replaced their broken movement then flogged the broken one. That's pretty scummy for 20 quid.

The CD player analogy doesn't really work, thanks for taking the time though.

And you look to take everyone that does you wrong to court? You must have a lot of time on your hands...


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[ibby7]

Please don't breed

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[alpharulez]

Please don't breed

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Ouch!


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[alpharulez]

Hi, I'd appreciate your thoughts on a little watch related issue. I bought a movement described as new old stock last year on eBay. Took me a while to get round to sending it off to a watch repairer. The repairer comes back to me saying it's dead and looks like a used movement. I ask the seller to explain and refund me as it's not as described. I say the delay is not material, he says it's been too long, he bought it as new and then sold it on as such. Not much money involved (£20) but thinking of going to small claims on principle/out of anger. Thanks in advance.

Just out of interest. How did you make that payment? And how much did you pay the watch repairer?


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[-Ally-]

This isn’t serious, is it ?

[eagletower]

Seriously, £20? 1 year later. You need to do something more productive with your spare time.

[ernestrome]

PayPal. I've got to pay the watch repairer for his time and find a new movement

[seikopath]

Once in 1964 someone looked at me funny and i dropped my ice cream. It's seriously spoilt my enjoyment of anything cone shaped ever since and I'm thinking of suing the b@rtst@rds

[alpharulez]

Once in 1964 someone looked at me funny and i dropped my ice cream. It's seriously spoilt my enjoyment of anything cone shaped ever since and I'm thinking of suing the b@rtst@rds

You are truly a ‘seiko’ sir!


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[eagletower]

PayPal. I've got to pay the watch repairer for his time and find a new movement

His time? How much time did it really take him to tell you it was a dud?

the time taken to find a new movement - that's your problem not the sellers.

[200mwaterresistant]

I'm involved in a number of pedantic legal matters myself at the moment and would willingly take on your case.

[ernestrome]

Small claims would've cost 25 as it's less than 300.

Happily the seller and I came to an agreement once I let go of the anger.

Cheers.

[RJM25R]

His time? How much time did it really take him to tell you it was a dud?

the time taken to find a new movement - that's your problem not the sellers.

Finding a movement is secondary, he should be finding a new watchmaker if he couldn’t tell it was dud immediately and wants to charge!





OP,

Get a grip pal.

[Thewatchbloke]

Finding a movement is secondary, he should be finding a new watchmaker if he couldn’t tell it was dud immediately and wants to charge!





OP,

Get a grip pal.

I'm the repairer, I established it was dud and certainly not NOS as soon as the watch was on the bench. This was three days after receiving it from ernestrome, I then informed him straight away. Also this incident has added no extra cost to the original quote which was for either a straight movement swap, or a movement and date disk swap (costs slightly more) depending on what replacement movement he sent me.

I think ernstromes comment of "I've got to pay the watch repairer for his time and find a new movement" relates to the fact he now has to buy a NOS movement with a white date disk which will have to be swapped for the original movements black one, therefore the cost will be based on the latter part of my quote.

The dud movement already had a black date disk fitted which had it have been good would have been based on the first (slightly lesser) cost quoted.

It's all a storm in a teacup really but I can identify with ernstrome to a certain degree, I bought a NOS 6138 centre wheel for stock when I saw one come up on ebay. Sealed in it's original Seiko blister pack I put it away with the others I have in stock and got to use it about a year or so later when a job came up that needed it. When I opened the packet it came open rather easily and the wheel was dud and definitely not NOS. Being "sealed" I'd only checked through the perspex blister that the pinion was the longer length, now I try and open any NOS stock I buy in blister packs, if they've never been opened they're incredibly hard to peel apart.

I would imagine the seller in my case had used the NOS wheel on his watch, put the duff one in the blister pack, carefully glued it back together then sold it to me for over £100 all the time crossing his fingers I wouldn't complain until the statuary Paypal dispute time had elapsed. He was right and I was shafted!


I couldn't find the part of this thread where it says I couldn't immediately tell it was dud and I want to charge more, I'm not sure where you read that!

[alpharulez]

PayPal. I've got to pay the watch repairer for his time and find a new movement

Did you get a quote or estimate for that?


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[ernestrome]

Did you get a quote or estimate for that?


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I got a quote for the work. Not for additional needing around!

[alpharulez]

I got a quote for the work. Not for additional needing around!

Surely the quote would have been over the purchase price of the watch movement?

[eagletower]

Small claims will cost you at least £70. On top of that you’re not guaranteed to win it’s your word against his after a whole year

[lew07]

Lol please don’t ever buy from Me

[ernestrome]

Lol please don’t ever buy from Me

Do you sell stuff that doesn't work?

[steptoe]

Do you sell stuff that doesn't work?

It's the stress and sleepless nights of a year waiting to hear if you're happy with the £20 sale that would put me off ..

[lew07]

Do you sell stuff that doesn't work?

Never knowingly.If I did I’d like the buyer to not leave it a year before He complains.Good grief it could have only just deteriorated .

[RustyBin5]

Never knowingly.If I did I’d like the buyer to not leave it a year before he EVEN CHECKED THE GOODS .Good grief it could have only just deteriorated .

FTFY

[SimonK]

I bought a NOS ETA movement for a Porsche Design quartz chronograph. The seller, a professional, had two offers - guaranteed lubricated and functioning and non-guaranteed (apart from guaranteed NOS). I bought the no-guarantee version for about 40 quid and the watchmaker I took it to in order to have it fitted told me he had to work on it quite a bit to lube and regulate it, as it had gone dry in storage.

So NOS is no guarantee of being functional, and it is perfectly feasible that the movement was indeed correctly described and your watchmaker is wrong.

[ernestrome]

I bought a NOS ETA movement for a Porsche Design quartz chronograph. The seller, a professional, had two offers - guaranteed lubricated and functioning and non-guaranteed (apart from guaranteed NOS). I bought the no-guarantee version for about 40 quid and the watchmaker I took it to in order to have it fitted told me he had to work on it quite a bit to lube and regulate it, as it had gone dry in storage.

So NOS is no guarantee of being functional, and it is perfectly feasible that the movement was indeed correctly described and your watchmaker is wrong.

Simon, it's not feasible in this case. I'll have another go at explaining the situation.

Where did you get the spare movement from for the 7T27? I went to swap the movement over this morning, tested the donor and it's dead. It doesn't look new though, it looks like an old 7T27 (hence the black date disc) with a YM57A back plate put in the packet which wasn't even attached to the movement.

The broken movement was sent with the back-plate from a newer variant of the movement. The most likely explanation is that someone has swapped the back-plates over and then sold the broken movement as NOS. That person would have known the movement is broken and therefore they intended to deceive, presumably hoping this would not be discovered until after the refund period has elapsed. I would guess they then went on to misrepresent the repaired watch (a Seiko RAF Gen 2) with the new movement/old back-plate as being original.

I will trust the repairer, a well respected member here who I found via this forum, who has inspected it over those who have not seen it. The seller now also accepts the repairer's assessment as a neutral third party. If the repairer had said it is NOS but dead I would've had no complaint.

It must be fairly common that parts of all types are not used immediately. I certainly have some other parts, including out of production parts (mostly bike/car) kept on hand because of the difficulty finding them or to prevent delay in getting back on the road. Indeed whoever made the swap banked on that fact.
Yes, I should've realised earlier that the movement was mis-matched and broken parts but checking a movement when it's not in a watch and without hands is not something I've done before. This is my first foray into having an older watch repaired.

I also regret going over the top with the seller at first, I suppose it is because I think honesty and trust is very important. Once I recognised and rowed back from that frustration we were able to resolve this.

I do not find deception acceptable, and I'm surprised to find so many of you do. More likely I would guess that no-one here thinks selling old broken parts as new is acceptable but having taken one position, many people (myself included) find it is very hard to change it because cognitive dissonance kicks in. I also did not describe the situation very well and this has led to some misunderstanding the situation.

I'm sadly not surprised to see another thread on TZ turn rather nasty, there have been quite a few recently. Maybe that's a phenomenon of internet forums in general and not peculiar to this one.
I have never had a problem with the occasional purchases I have made here, although I cannot say the same of eBay. I'll continue to visit to keep up to date with Eddie's new watches and original British military watches. Given the infrequency of my SC use it's not too much hardship if some don't want to deal in future but rather sad.

Thanks for all the advice, and particularly to those who take the time to understand the situation before posting.

[johny]

Do you sell stuff that doesn't work?

lol.

[Nigeyp]

https://www.gov.uk/online-and-distan...for-businesses, might be worth checking time limits etc, but if seller was a businesses you are covered. On pure contractual terms, frustrated, vitiating factor, misrep, either fraudulent or negligent, rescission.

[ernestrome]

Not a business. With private sales the only issue is not as described.

I wouldn't have relied on my word. against his, I'd have cited the repairer's assessment.

[Nigeyp]

Not a business. With private sales the only issue is not as described.

I wouldn't have relied on my word. against his, I'd have cited the repairer's assessment.

then they have to have been proved to have lied to you, high burden.

[mangoosian]

I just read this thread and claim my £20

[Neilw3030]

Think you might have damaged your chances of buying from a number of guys here OP.

[murkeywaters]

More to the issue, you have been on here for 11 years and contributed 315 posts in yet you ask advice from a forum where you have given very little..

If your getting this worked up over £20 then your lack of contribution here is welcome..

[raysablade]

I've a lot of things to thank my wife for, one of which is is teaching me to value my non work time. Work out a rate for your leisure time and you will find that problems like this can invariably be shared with the bin.

[woodacre1983]

I've a lot of things to thank my wife for, one of which is is teaching me to value my non work time. Work out a rate for your leisure time and you will find that problems like this can invariably be shared with the bin.

Quality advice! We are here a short time, enjoy it don’t stress and waste your time on none issues! Family time, chill time making memories not arguing over £20!!!


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[dkpw]

Think you might have damaged your chances of buying from a number of guys here OP.

I think you may well be right.

[number2]

OP now added.