Apparently bought by Richemont.
Is it true ?
Interesting.
Small change for Richemont in the scheme of things. Will be interesting to see what they do with it and how they will expand.
Wow that's pretty big news in this sector. Biggest issue is that its no longer independent. Trying to figure out why they would want it
Not a bad price considering there was recent rumblings about its demise.
What was it sold for
Good company to deal with in my experience.
I guess that if the rumours of stock buybacks in the industry are true it could provide a discrete outlet for manufacturers.
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A way of offloading their unsold watches?
Was thinking the same selling they're watches slightly cheaper
Been expecting this for a while; they were obviously fattening the company up before they got out with the cash. Unpleasant business with, in my opinion, bottomless cynicism.
Richemont will improve it, as it becomes a vehicle for them to move into the second hand business.
It could revolutionise the marketing of used watches...Just as the major car manufacturers grabbed control of their own used stock.
Just think, Rolex would end-up selling their used stock for more than their new stuff.
Last edited by paskinner; 1st June 2018 at 18:48.
Could go one of two ways to my mind... almost an 'authorised grey dealer' or they could stamp on the grey market for their brands.
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With a turnover of nearly £11 billion and net profits of £1.2 billion, it’s no wonder the acquisition of Watchfinder is just a drop in the ocean for Richemont.
It’ll be interesting to see how it pans out for their customers.
They will have almost unlimited funds for further stores, stock or both as well as marketing. They could see this as a name/brand to take into Europe or even global. To be fair, like them or loath them WF is an excellent concept and with vct money they really expanded and in a very short period of time became the most talked about watch seller.
This will affect some grey dealers for sure, others however (the ones with excellent customer service) will thrive and may even do better.
They have been already. Some WF stock is brand new, supplied by ADs.Originally Posted by alphajet
Very interesting purchase by Richemont, will be interesting to see how it pans out.
Maybe they have found a home for all the stock that they bought back - recycled to watchfinder and they will still be able take a margin
Zenith said a while ago that they'd like to sell used watches; done well this could stabilise prices of such brands. It has to be a golden opportunity . All on the internet, I suspect.
Suspicious me thinks it's about trying to gain control of supply in the secondhand market
Good luck everybody. Have a good one.
Had to be a part of it. Will enable them to impact used values in a positive way if they keep used prices up. Long term strategy that could work very well for them.
Its what certain *cough* other brands are doing in the new market
Good luck everybody. Have a good one.
I wonder how other manufacturors will view it. I can’t imagine the likes of Rolex will be too happy. Imagine that for a large number of their in demand watches a sale of a £9k watch will not only mean a profit of, say, £7k shared between Rolex and the AD but also another £7k profit shared between the buyer and rival Richemont.
Or worse, selling all their Rolex stock at considerably lower prices than currently even if it means selling at a loss.
Taking away one of the strongest selling points (high residuals) will impact on demand for new ones.
Are you smoking something?
Pa skinning up?
Good luck everybody. Have a good one.
Literally I think.
I don’t see how this could revolutionise the marketing of secondhand watches. Please elaborate.
Corporate giant with struggling brands and minimal market share in the watch sector buys single company (of evolving, increasingly cost-burdened and therefore untested nature), in the hope of reviving the desirability and residuals of its own watches?
Instead, is it to be an online discount outlet, trying to raise more than scrap value from the next £400m of stock that they can’t shift? Their ADs must be tickled pink at the prospect. Any other main agents fancy ditching a few dead loss brands?
Anyone running a book on the chances that Watchfinder will be able to retain access to Rolex and Omega parts?
GLWTS.
Last edited by Haywood_Milton; 2nd June 2018 at 01:21.
For sometime now WF has been the benchmark for privately sellers asking prices, everyone has had the “WF are charging this” etc and that has had an affect on market value for used watches but subsequently WF have probably been one of the more generous buyers in the secondhand market compared to probably everyone else. Not sure just how generous a Richemont company would be with a trade in value or straight buy in, especially for many of the not in demand brands.
They will certainly change the model to suit their specific desires and that could have a knock on affect for anyone looking to sell or trade in. Would be funny if Richemont flooded the secondary market with diserable Rolex models under RRP.
Richemont could also see the value in using WF infrastructure to make a hodinkee style high margin 'premium' second hand section in their netaporter channel. And they could extend this model to jewellery.
EBITDA was 5.8 in 2016-7 but growth has been incredible and this is a whale swallowing a minnow, so even speculation in value is tail on the donkey stuff.
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always found watchfinder massively inconsistent in their pricing of my watches.
if the sale changes that then good.
The suggestion that Richemont might use Watchfinder to flood the market with desirable Rolex at low prices in order to destabilise that market is unrealistic. When Watchfinder over-stocked in the past I would give them six figure sums at short notice for a dollop of Rolex stock. Anything under-priced now would be hoovered up immediately, with no significant impact on wider demand.
In recent times Watchfinder have priced most of their Rolex at around 10% or more above where I see the market. Some think this was in part so that they could artificially inflate part-exchange offers, allowing the naive client to be easily flattered into a deal.
Sellers often celebrated the Watchfinder pricing paradigm only because it suited them. Sensible buyers would find other measures.
Our world will still turn whether the company’s direction betrays its new master or not.
H
Last edited by Haywood_Milton; 2nd June 2018 at 09:49.
My guess is that Richemont will change the company out of all recognition. They probably just want a vehicle to begin marketing their brands on the used market. Doubt they will sell Rolex at all. The days of getting high offers from Watchfinder are well and truly over.
Fun to watch how it develops. The most immediate knock-on could be more stuff on SC. That may already be happening.
My feeling on this is that it parallels Wal-Mart buying Asda.
Mis-guided?
I would compare it more with Wal-Mart buying a small chain of local convenience stores which sell everyday products at premium prices to people often too lazy to shop around.
Last edited by Haywood_Milton; 2nd June 2018 at 10:16.
Much like Tesco and One Stop, average or below product at convenience level pricing...
Cannot see that happening at all. Whatever your views are on SS Rolex, they are the watches that people want and will pay for and Rolex is the most sought after recognisable brand of all. That would be totally shooting themselves in the foot.
Tomayto tomahto ;)
That assumes 'Watchfinder' will remain a general seller of used watches. My guess it that it has been bought as an' off the shelf'' business for the sale of Richemont watches. The aim would be to profit from the growth in used watch sales, but equally to shore-up second-hand values of their brands. They're not interested in shoring-up Rolex.
You can see the business model in the way Richemont gained control of the internet fashion brand 'Mr Porter' and now uses it to sell watches, but only the Richemont brands.
Last edited by paskinner; 2nd June 2018 at 12:40.
Only time will tell but I think you’re totally off the mark. The whole reason that WF have so many Rolexes compared to other brands, pay higher sale prices and then subsequently price them at a premium is because they . . . . . Actually sell! How many people will stop using WF if they don’t have a Rolex presence? Anywhere between loads and most of them is my guess.
Agree, Rolex sales are a large portion of WFs business. Or any other secondary/grey market dealer
I mean, come on, just look at the stock levels. Over 40% more Rolex stock than all of the Richmont brands combined.
Truth is, we can't know. But I don't think Richemont are interested in second-hand watch companies; they are interested in a new type of business, using other companies (MrPorter and Watchfinder) as the vehicles. Richemont can't be interested in selling used Rolex any more than Mercedes want to sell used BMWs.
I suspect that 'Watchfinder' as we know it, is now extinct. Or very soon will be. It has a new role....
The error is to think that Watchfinder is being bought so that it can continue as it has been; apart from anything else, I think that business model was unsustainable. Buying more and more used models, at higher and higher prices, only ends one way.
Last edited by paskinner; 2nd June 2018 at 14:43.
Plus Zenith, Tag Heuer, Ressence, Nomos, Bell & Ross, Bremont....
Last edited by Dynam0humm; 2nd June 2018 at 14:54.
If interested, Watchfinder lost a lawsuit last year, which revolved, in part, over attempts to sell itself to Richemont. The judge's findings give plenty of details. You could see then that Watchfinder was very keen to sell.
I find the financial and business churn in 'watch world' far more interesting than , say, another thread on Rolex shortages. There are huge changes beginning to run through the industry. About time too.
Incidentally, while Rolex is the biggest seller, Richemont has truly massive resources and is beginning to deploy them properly.
Others will go down the same road. They have to. It's dog eat dog.
Webuyanyrolex.com
“Yes, I could have got a bit more selling privately, but.........”😝
🤦🏼*♂️
Not too sure about that, only today I received an offer of 13k for a 2 year old white dial ceramic Daytona. That is 1.5k more than they offered me when it was 1 month old
Just tap room gossip, but I hear these Webuywotevah lot do the biz over the phone, get ya hooked then cut you in half when push comes to shove. A good mate was a car dealer for many years in the US. Its all phsycology, YOU volunterily cross THEIR threshold, and after that it's all sucking of teeth followed by the old ''what can I do to help you get what you want today?''
Simples.
I believe watch companies now understand the importance of the secondary market and want to influence it. Most of Richemont brands suffer from relatively soft secondary market prices which deters people from buying their new watches. I believe the primary purpose of the watch finder acquisition was to get a better insight on the secondary market and support their own prices.
However I still think watchfinder will continue to sell other brands.
Ooh.... you mean, they've seen how WF's pricing has helped inflate Rolex prices, and are thinking, we'll have a bit of that hot air, too, thank you...?
They are also beginning to see the value in online retail. Some still think that to get a high price for a watch you need the full boutique experience. Online retailers blow that theory out the water with the online business they run. Watchfinder do it very well, with good YouTube content, TVs ads, sponsorship, and social media engagement. They may start to retail new watches like Hodinkinee have.
It'll be interesting to see how they go on to protect their brands used prices. Watchfinder have low balled on all sorts of Richemont brands, it's not going to be good for repeat business if Richemont sell a new Panerai for £7k and will only buy it back again via watchfinder for £2k.
Richemont will not have bought watchfinder to sell used Rolex or any other brand outwith their stable of Watch manufactures. Just like their stake in Mr Porter, it is to use the established business model to promote their own, they know the value of the secondhand market and will use the established WF model to promote and control the selling of their own brands within the secondary market. They have no interest in Rolex etc and will leave that to the other players in the secondhand field. Not sure how many bi colour Daytona’s etc that Blowers or Watch club etc would be prepared to buy in and keep hanging around in stock hoping for a sale and with that in mind, the Richemont buy of WF will have an effect on the market for buyers and sellers.
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