Magnetism.

[walkerwek1958]

Just assembled a Seiko movement this afternoon, all looked well, broke off to do a few things then returned to finish it. Couldn`t understand why the amplitude was struggling around 230°. Couldn`t remember demagnetising it (that's what happens when you break off a job) so I treted it to a dose of the demagnetiser. Hey presto, amplitude improves to 285° and the rate falls by approx. 40 secs. Textbook example of a magnetised movement.

Adjusting the rate's a simple job, so all's now well. A freshly assembled watch with low amplitude is bad news for a repairer.....something's definitely wrong if that happens, in this case the answer was the obvious one.

I used to have a sticker on my Timegrapher with the word 'demagnetise' on it.......I think it needs to return.

God knows how these watches get magnetised thesedays, this is a steel-cased watch, no glass back. It's nothing to do with the case being affected, this is the movement running on the bench, but it's clearly become magnetised during the watch's life. I`ll demag the case too...I think that may be wise!

Paul

[Webwatchmaker]

Tags:

Webwatchmaker*said:Today*18:36

It surprises me how many watches become magnetised too. Whether it's the Royal Mail automatic sorting system or a simpler reason such as closeness to a loudspeaker or even a visit to an X ray department. Difficult to know.
When you spin the wheels in the watch the steel escape wheel will act like a compass and always stop in the same orientation.
Or coils of the balance wheel will stick together.
It's best to demagnetise each individual steel component and not the whole movement n one go because the demagnetiser is usually not powerful enough to demagnetise the entire watch successfully and can increase its magnetism.

*****

walkerwek1958*said:Today*18:14

Magnetism.

Just assembled a Seiko movement this afternoon, all looked well, broke off to do a few things then returned to finish it. Couldn`t understand why the amplitude was struggling around 230°. Couldn`t remember demagnetising it (that's what happens when you break off a job) so I treted it to a dose of the demagnetiser. Hey presto, amplitude improves to 285° and the rate falls by approx. 40 secs. Textbook example of a magnetised movement.*

Adjusting the rate's a simple job, so all's now well. A freshly assembled watch with low amplitude is bad news for a repairer.....something's definitely wrong if that happens, in this case the answer was the obvious one.*

I used to have a sticker on my Timegrapher with the word 'demagnetise' on it.......I think it needs to return.

God knows how these watches get magnetised thesedays, this is a steel-cased watch, no glass back. It's nothing to do with the case being affected, this is the movement running on the bench, but it's clearly become magnetised during the watch's life. I`ll demag the case too...I think that may be wise!

Paul

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[walkerwek1958]

I’ll take your advice on this, I usually demagnetise the movement after removal from the case before dismantling but sometimes I’ll do it when the movement’s assembled and I’m checking it. Never thought to demagnetise components separately.

I’m tempted to try and deliberately magnetise a watch to try and learn how it happens. A few years back I went round my study/ workroom with a compass to check for magnetic sources and apart from the speakers in the ceiling corners I found nothing significant.

I’ve posted and received plenty if watches via Royal Mail so it seems unlikely that they get magnetised in transit.

I’d expect the stainless steel case and the metal dial to provide enough shielding to the movement, but the evidence doesn’t support this.

Paul

[Webwatchmaker]

I’ll take your advice on this, I usually demagnetise the movement after removal from the case before dismantling but sometimes I’ll do it when the movement’s assembled and I’m checking it. Never thought to demagnetise components separately.

I’m tempted to try and deliberately magnetise a watch to try and learn how it happens. A few years back I went round my study/ workroom with a compass to check for magnetic sources and apart from the speakers in the ceiling corners I found nothing significant.

I’ve posted and received plenty if watches via Royal Mail so it seems unlikely that they get magnetised in transit.

I’d expect the stainless steel case and the metal dial to provide enough shielding to the movement, but the evidence doesn’t support this.

Paul

I have been surprised at replies when I have asked customers with magnetised watches: "are you a doctor by any chance ?".
The response being "How did you know that?"
And have you been to the Radiology department recently ? "Er, yes !".
There are incredibly strong magnetic forces in the Radiology room, but other sources can be the anti theft scanners in shops and libraries, electronic door locks, airport X ray scanners, even the sliding friction created when winding a mainspring can cause it to become magnetised.
We are all being spied on and maybe friendly aliens are directing their beams at our timepieces to upset them....and keep us watchmakers busy !

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[Bry1975]

Yer once wore my Rolex 16610 whilst having a chest x ray, got home and the watch had GAINED minutes! :D

[Webwatchmaker]

Yer once wore my Rolex 16610 whilst having a chest x ray, got home and the watch had GAINED minutes! :D

Absolutely right ! I don't know if Dental X rays have the same intensity but it always amuses me how the dentist and assistant scarper out of the room before pressing the button !
Maybe that's why they are always late with appointments !

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[Bry1975]

Yer the Xray was probably 70KV-100KV etc.

[Liner33]

I have a Citizen Promaster Auto thats had little wear but seems to be horrifically inconsistent , not sure its worthwhile repairing but could it be magnetised ?

Is there any harm in just buying one of those Ebay degaussers and running a watch through it or could damage be caused ?

[MartC]

Managed to magnetise a Longines Hydroconquest which resulted in a gain of around 2 minutes/day.
Used to rest it on my iPad case overnight that had a magnetic closure, which I assume was the culprit. Pretty stupid looking back,

Neodymium magnets are everywhere these days and strong even when concealed. My blutooth headphones have them on the holder and that is something you would carry around. Wallets, phone cases, etc. use magnets. Plenty of opportunities in daily life.

[walkerwek1958]

I have a Citizen Promaster Auto thats had little wear but seems to be horrifically inconsistent , not sure its worthwhile repairing but could it be magnetised ?

Is there any harm in just buying one of those Ebay degaussers and running a watch through it or could damage be caused ?

I have a cheap ebay degausser and it works fine. I bought a better one and ironically I`ve had problems with it!

Suggest you try fully winding your watch and see how it performs. Check it against something reliable (preferably a quartz watch for simplicity) and see what it's really doing. Also check it dial-up overnight. If it's running v. fast it could be magnetised and it may be worth buying a degausser.

Paul

[Steelgecko]

The eBay demagnetisers work great. They are dirt cheap as well. I bought the red one with a grill. Bear in mind it may like mine come with a euro plug so you need a 3 pin UK converter.

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[Kingstepper]

The eBay demagnetisers work great. They are dirt cheap as well. I bought the red one with a grill. Bear in mind it may like mine come with a euro plug so you need a 3 pin UK converter.

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Mine came with a lethal adapter - unshuttered and unfused.

Works well though!

[trott3r]

They are something like £7 so just buy one for when you eventually and inevitably need it in the future.

[Webwatchmaker]

No mention so far of those with excessive magnetism in their bodies !
Over the years I had several customers some of clairvoyant or healing dispositions who claimed that their body magnetism stopped any watch they wore. I observed this happening myself when those customers would put their watches on.
Sometimes I could not explain why this happened and other times it was the tightness of the watch band distorting the case enough to allow a part of the movement to foul it.
Another of life's mysteries.

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[MartynJC (UK)]

Yer once wore my Rolex 16610 whilst having a chest x ray, got home and the watch had GAINED minutes! :D

Darn - I had to go for an Ultra Sound on my neck in the Radiology Dept - I was wearing my Speedy Pro - I'll check it's time-keeping over next few days.


I did think though that Speedies were tested quite heavily in the space program including magnetic immunity?

Martyn

[boywithabubblegun]

Interesting thread, thanks for reminding us abut this Paul. My demagnetiser is tucked away in a drawer but I must remember to use it more frequently - especially if I encounter a "problem" watch.

[bry nylon]

I was wearing my Seiko SBDC053 when I had to have x rays and ct scans recently , the operative assured me my watch would be fine.. Now I find its gaining 2 mins a day & the trace & readings when on the timegrapher are all over the place! I had assumed it’s needing a service as I was wearing it when I got knocked off my pushbike, maybe it was just the magnets ? Tbh I think it needs a service & de magnetising ...


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[Liner33]

I have a cheap ebay degausser and it works fine. I bought a better one and ironically I`ve had problems with it!

Suggest you try fully winding your watch and see how it performs. Check it against something reliable (preferably a quartz watch for simplicity) and see what it's really doing. Also check it dial-up overnight. If it's running v. fast it could be magnetised and it may be worth buying a degausser.

Paul

I have a demagnetiser on the way and have been wearing the Citizen for the last couple of days and now its running at +7.2 per day , so go figure , perhaps its not been worn enough or wasnt fully wound

[walkerwek1958]

I have a demagnetiser on the way and have been wearing the Citizen for the last couple of days and now its running at +7.2 per day , so go figure , perhaps its not been worn enough or wasnt fully wound

I think the answer's obvious, you've not had in a high state of wind and it's behaved erratically. Simple answer's often the right one.

[walkerwek1958]

Interesting thread, thanks for reminding us abut this Paul. My demagnetiser is tucked away in a drawer but I must remember to use it more frequently - especially if I encounter a "problem" watch.

Treat yourself to a cheap timegrapher, then you can see what's going on.

[boywithabubblegun]

Treat yourself to a cheap timegrapher, then you can see what's going on.

Yep, got the timegrapher. Just forgot I also have the demagnetiser too!


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[Kingstepper]

No mention so far of those with excessive magnetism in their bodies !
Over the years I had several customers some of clairvoyant or healing dispositions who claimed that their body magnetism stopped any watch they wore. I observed this happening myself when those customers would put their watches on.
Sometimes I could not explain why this happened and other times it was the tightness of the watch band distorting the case enough to allow a part of the movement to foul it.
Another of life's mysteries.

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Sure, maybe others can demagnetise watches.

[murkeywaters]

Interesting, think I’ll buy one of these eBay cheapies, but which one?
These seem to be the two main demagnetisers under a tenner, I’m thinking the plugin blue one as the red one also magnetises and may cause problems..

[alfat33]

The blue ones work well. There is video on YouTube that explains how to use them. Worth persevering with, only 8 minutes long.

https://youtu.be/81Vuhe-ytz4

By the way, the blue demagnetiser can magnetise if you don’t use it correctly.

[JohnB4]

Interesting thread, thanks. Aside from the magnetising am I to assume that when timing mechanical watches it is best to wind fully and keep this up to get an accurate result, forgive the dumb question but I thought that's how it read. Cheers, John B4

[twhp101]

Thought I'd bump this rather than start a new thread. Have experienced a watch being magnetised recently and having not seen it before (or not been aware of it), it didn't occur to me straight away that that's what it could be. Wanted to share in case it helps anyone else in the same boat. The display back allows for a lovely view, but it seems it also makes it getting magnetised more likely.

I recently bought a PRS-36 from SC, and excitedly wound it on arrival and put it on. About 6 hours later I checked the time and it was fast by about half an hour.

Thinking I'd maybe not set it correctly I timed it over a minute and it gained about 5 seconds in that time, which is about 2 hours fast a day.

Thinking the worst of the Royal Mail I imagined the watch had suffered some sort of impact related damage and something had broken inside. I messaged the seller and he confirmed that the watch had been running well before it left him, and that he'd happily take it back if it had been damaged (benefits of using SC).

I decided to let it run down, and then wind it again and see if anything had changed, and then googled extremely fast running and it suggested magnetism.

I already had the Watch Accuracy app, so following the advice of whatever forum I'd found I installed a Magnetic Sensor app, which after calibration showed a deflection from the background level.

I was pretty convinced by that point that it was magnetism, so bought one of the cheapo blue demagnetisers from Amazon (a few threads on here had mentioned success with these). £10.69 delivered so worth a try.

I installed Physics Toolbox Magnetometer and My Magnetic Instrument and set about checking some readings. I was getting 53uT as the background level, and 106uT when the balance spring of the watch was over the sensor.

I watched the YouTube video on how to use it, and tried maybe half a dozen goes with the demagnetiser.

The readings afterwards were 61uT with the balance spring over the sensor, so a fairly sizeable change. I'm not sure if the magnetism should go completely, and using a compass app there is still a small deflection, but it seems to have done the trick as it's now running as it should be.

Photo of the watch below, and some screenshots from the accuracy app before and after.

Final note, this is my first cushion case watch and it really is a peach. Just the right size for me, display back so I can see the fine looking Peseux inside. Lovely dial finishing too. Very happy all round, and thanks again to the seller and to Eddie for creating this excellent watch.

[helidoc]

Thought I would bump this rather than start a new one.

Magnetism, it’s out there!

I had the inescapable feeling my new to me Luminor was running fast, a little tricky with no seconds hand. I put it on the Timegrapher acquired from SC, about 35 secs per day fast, and a not quite acceptable beat error. Started looking at service costs then was inspired to try the demagnetiser that shipped with my Dornbluth, hey presto, all good, beat error zero, strong amplitude, -1spd.

Happiness

D


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[walkerwek1958]

I wouldn't trust any of the magnetism apps on phones. An interesting exercise is to take a compass and go around your house, speakers will invariably show a magnetic field and so will electric motors. Whether the field is strong enough to cause magnetic harm to a watch is open to debate but watches definitely do become magnetised. The cheap demagnetisers do work, and seeing the 'before' and 'after' results on a timegrapher is quite dramatic. Amplitude will improve and the rate will fall, hopefully back to the level required to give god timekeeping. Easiest way to confirm the rate is to check the watch against a reliable source (an old quartz watch will do) and check again 8 hrs later.

I always demagnetise a watch when it arrives and demagnetise the movement again prior to reinstallation in the case, I use a demagnetiser that cost around £40 and it does what it should. Sometimes I have to resort to using a small magnet to search for screws or tiny parts that have escaped from the bench onto the hardwood floor, it's v. effective but the parts then need demagnetising! I put them in a small plastic bag and give them the treatment.

It's worth buying a cheap demagnetiser, I had a £10 cheapo and it lasted a few years. Definitely worth having.

[j111dja]

The cheap demagnetisers online are brilliant. I've had mine for a good eight years now and it's never let me down.

[Stilgoe1972]

Did this with a Seiko that was running +12 a day . After a demag it was +2 a day. Not snake oil for those that are non believers:)


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[Phill_UK]

Did this with a Seiko that was running +12 a day . After a demag it was +2 a day. Not snake oil for those that are non believers:)


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Clear your inbox Chris, I can’t reply to your message.

[sickie]

The cheap demagnetisers online are brilliant. I've had mine for a good eight years now and it's never let me down.

Same, I only paid £5.99 about 8 year's ago and it still does what is says on the tin. They are definitely worth having.

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[wallyuk]

I have a magnetic rack where larger screwdrivers sit. You can guess the rest. I could get the Miyota to +1 or 2 seconds, screw on the back and all of a sudden I was getting +30. One eBay demagnetiser magnetic rack moved and problem sorted.

[dice]

Well this thread has prompted me to get a cheap and cheerful Amazon demagnetizer. For the price of a tenner, its got to be worth it.

[dice]

..aaaand its already starting to prove its worth.

Just bought a brand new Black Bay Pro, slightly disappointed it was running at -4/day (within COSC, but as with most I'd rather it was running fast than slow). 5 seconds each side on the demagnetiser has brought it to -1/day immediately. Just ran it over again for a few seconds longer, what are the odds it'll get even better? Fingers crossed!

[walkerwek1958]

Not wanting to piss on your fireworks, but a magnetised watch runs fast, not slow. Also worth noting that the advantages of demagnetising aren’t cumulative, once it’s demagnetised its done, repeating the exercise wont produce further change.

Suggest you ensure your watch is fully wound and remains in a high state of wind whilst checking performance.

[dice]

Not wanting to piss on your fireworks, but a magnetised watch runs fast, not slow. Also worth noting that the advantages of demagnetising aren’t cumulative, once it’s demagnetised its done, repeating the exercise wont produce further change.

Suggest you ensure your watch is fully wound and remains in a high state of wind whilst checking performance.

Now thats useful to know, thanks for the info.

Its a brand new watch, at the time of the issue (and supposed action) running for less than 72 hours. Possibly just going through the breaking-in period? Had the same with my new Speedie, it got closer to perfect timekeeping over the course of the first couple weeks.