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Thread: Patina

  1. #1
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    Patina

    Talk to me about patina as I'm not sure I get it.

    Is it more often than not, just a term used to make a battered watch seem desirable? I can understand discoloured lume on an otherwise clean watch and agree that on occasion this can even look pretty. And I can understand why Rolex tropical dials might attain a cult following but a battered old watch, scratched glass and bent up discoloured bezel, really?

    I quite like old cars, and absolutely get that some have 'character' but dented panels and rusty arches will never be desirable.

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    Master Sinnlover's Avatar
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    Patina

    I like patina
    I like a watch to look like it's lived a life, obviously it looks better on an older watch but I also quite like fake aged lume as well.






    For me patina makes a watch unique. No other watch will be the same. That said I don't get bronze / brass watches.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinnlover View Post
    I like patina
    I like a watch to look like it's lived a life, obviously it looks better on an older watch but I also quite like fake aged lume as well.






    For me patina makes a watch unique. No other watch will be the same. That said I don't get bronze / brass watches.
    Now THAT is a stunning collection of watches with amazing patina. Total envy here.

  4. #4
    Craftsman canuck's Avatar
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    I’ll second that. That’s my kind of collection! Thanks for sharing.

  5. #5
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    I think I'm on the minority, but I also don't like much other than agreed lume.

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  6. #6
    Master Sinnlover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelgecko View Post
    Now THAT is a stunning collection of watches with amazing patina. Total envy here.
    Thank you.
    I would like to say that's all the collection but I would be telling a fib, but it's indicative. I like a watch with character. Most watches with patina look much better in the flesh than in photos.

  7. #7
    Craftsman ordo's Avatar
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    I would also like to mention that patina is NOT related to damage.

    Damaged/scratched/bent/broken watches are not the same thing with patina.

    Patina is how materials look after many decades (usually of use since a watch that has stood in the drawer for 40 years will look almost like new).

    I also like watches with character. Patina all the way!

  8. #8
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    this is the only watch i have bought for the patina,i think it dates from the 1940's..

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ordo View Post
    I would also like to mention that patina is NOT related to damage.

    Damaged/scratched/bent/broken watches are not the same thing with patina.

    Patina is how materials look after many decades (usually of use since a watch that has stood in the drawer for 40 years will look almost like new).

    I also like watches with character. Patina all the way!
    Completely agree. Imo patina aptly describes mellow aging.
    It does not describe something that looks like it's been through a cement mixer.

  10. #10
    Master Chinnock's Avatar
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    I’m a sucker for aged lume.




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  11. #11
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    I like aged lume but not if done artificially as on many recently introduced watches. Bought a bronze Anonimo years back and it is developping lovely with a warm dark tone. With these kind of materials the effect happens quickly.

  12. #12
    Craftsman woodacre1983's Avatar
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    Another question with the aged lume. I have a 2006 Sub 14060m am I right in thinking this will develop the patina and aged lume as it get worn/aged? Or was the older Subs with a different type of lume?


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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodacre1983 View Post
    Another question with the aged lume. I have a 2006 Sub 14060m am I right in thinking this will develop the patina and aged lume as it get worn/aged? Or was the older Subs with a different type of lume?


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    No, in all honesty, we do not know whether SL lume will colour with age, but it has been in use for as long as it takes some Trit lume to colour up and I have not seen any colouring yet, so it would seem unlikely. And ROlex switched over 98-2000.

    For me, there is a huge attraction in Patina. The gradual accumulation of aging without dilapidation. Looking knackered is not an attractive thing (to me), but as the owner of a few old watches over the years, it is great to see the fact that something can wear its age lightly, and with pride.

    And it is not all about lume, as this Val 71 Wittnauer proves



    And would you really want to polish off the patina from something with an interesting past like this?



    to me this looks exactly like it should, well used, but well looked after too.

    Dave

  14. #14
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    Any wear, scratches, discolouration, or marks of any kind drive me crazy. I sold a Festina in March just because it had a tiny discolouration on the dial that was only just visible to the naked eye. I REALLY wish I wasn't the way I am as I love old old watches. Maybe I should get some therapy! 😧

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by ordo View Post
    I would also like to mention that patina is NOT related to damage.

    Damaged/scratched/bent/broken watches are not the same thing with patina.

    Patina is how materials look after many decades (usually of use since a watch that has stood in the drawer for 40 years will look almost like new).

    I also like watches with character. Patina all the way!
    That's interesting...by that definition, I don't like Patina at all, but I do like watches that have that have obviously lived a life with some battle scars and not been kept in a safe. Perhaps we need a new term.

  16. #16
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    Patina is over-rated, unless it's very light it detracts from the watch in my opinion. My definition of originality is how it looked when it was new, I look for the same appearance the first owner saw when he bought it.

  17. #17
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    It's amazing how many dealers are trying to sell watches with "patina", which is in fact rust or water damage!

    I'm a sucker for the creamy custard lume plots on an old watch!

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinnlover View Post
    I like genuine wear on watches brought on by age and use as much as the next man, but if I were offered this, I'd think "rotten watch" rather than "amazing patina" ...

  19. #19
    Grand Master JasonM's Avatar
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    I love old watches with aged lume, funnily enough one of my most aged lume watches is this cheapo 'diver' its very basic, snap on back, EB8800 movement, lime green date wheel but lovely brown tritium lume.


    But this is my favourite 'patina lume' watch.
    Seiko 6306


    Old Speedys always wear their wear well.
    Last edited by JasonM; 18th May 2018 at 14:38.
    Cheers..
    Jase

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  21. #21
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    [QUOTE=MartinCRC;4768583]

    Martin[/QUOTE
    Oooh! I like this, tempted to try and soak a few white dialed watches in a cup of tea ...

    - - - Updated - - -


    Quote Originally Posted by greasemonkey View Post
    this is the only watch i have bought for the patina,i think it dates from the 1940's..
    Nice !
    Last edited by furiousjoe; 18th May 2018 at 15:29.

  22. #22
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    Sorry, but that Speedy just looks like a tired old watch to me......no way would I want to wear that. I really don`t get it, people are paying lots of money for these watches and enjoying the fact that they look 'distressed' (putting it politely), much as I like vintage watches I really can`t see the appeal. Refinish the case, clean and relume the hands, replace the bezel, and it'll look how it was intended to look. Get it on a bracelet or a black smart leather strap and it'll look fine. Buying a much newer model in sharp condition is a better idea to me, but there's a groundswell of support for the old ones thesedays that's copied the Rolex Sub trend.

    Just received a 50s steel Omega bumper automatic this morning that needs some work. Dial's excellent, with traces of ageing, hands are good albeit with dirty lume that could be replaced. The watch wears like it did when nearly new, it looks how it was intended. That's my type of watch, if it was a scruffy battered mess I`d refinish and restore it to look better and I`d accept the loss of originality. The watch is with me because it needs a crown and it could do with servicing, so that's what it'll get. Case looks like it's been lightly polished in the past, overall it looks v. nice.

    I sometimes wonder what people wear with these scruffy old sports watches, I`ve just been out with the dog in a pair of scruffy old Levis, a tatty T shirt and a scruffy pair of Adidas Sambas........a battered old watch would've completed the look!

    Each to their own, but what troubles me is the fact that newcomers to the watch hobby will feel they have to follow the trend, it's almost a form of brainwashing. Refinishing and restoration is almost becoming a dirty word, people are being conditioned to think this way. The appeal of an old watch should lie in the design and the way it was intended to look and feel, that's fundamentally why I like them, and the closer they can be to the way they were intended to look the better. To me, the logic's irrefutable.

    Paul

  23. #23
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    FFS everytime I post bloody site duplicates or triplicates it !
    Last edited by furiousjoe; 18th May 2018 at 15:29.

  24. #24
    Why not edit it?

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by walkerwek1958 View Post
    Refinishing and restoration is almost becoming a dirty word, people are being conditioned to think this way.
    In my experience, case refinishing, especially if it is done by hand, is more often than not a recipe for absolutely obliterating the original lines of a watch case and killing the soul of the watch. The most successful examples of case refinishing that I've seen are those shown on the case lapping thread in the Classic Posts sub-forum. I have no problem with many of those examples, particularly where lapping has been used to put right previous inept attempts at refinishing the case by hand. But in general, I would steer clear of a vintage watch whose case has been obviously hand-refinished.

    Quote Originally Posted by walkerwek1958 View Post
    The appeal of an old watch should lie in the design and the way it was intended to look and feel, that's fundamentally why I like them, and the closer they can be to the way they were intended to look the better. To me, the logic's irrefutable.
    For me the appeal of an old watch is tied up not only in the design but also the character that is imbued by the patina they acquire as a result of the irreversible effects of time, of decades of handling and the gentle friction of clothing. If you polish all of that away, then you rob it of its character and its soul and it just becomes a blunted facsimile of its former self.

    Martin

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Why not edit it?
    Done!

  27. #27
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    I guess Paul and Martin would’t be keen in this then? OK, I probably am going to get the hands done.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by alfat33 View Post
    I guess Paul and Martin would’t be keen in this then?
    Bothered though?

  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by alfat33 View Post
    I guess Paul and Martin would’t be keen in this then? OK, I probably am going to get the hands done.
    I am not sure why you drew that conclusion about me from what I've said in this thread.

    Martin

  30. #30
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    If the patina/wabi is a result of My many experiences and long bonding with the watch then it is a beautiful thing. I wouldn’t feel comfortable to wear someone else’s though.


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  31. #31
    Craftsman sish101's Avatar
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    Happy to share my Citizen Moon Dater.

  32. #32
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    One man’s 5hite is another man’s... (and other such cliches).

    I have a 62MAS with some serious patina/aging and it honestly has so much charcacter in the flesh. I had two 62mas’ and one was more ‘normal’ for its age. Out of the two I much preferred the heavily patina’d one (and thats not something I’d have thought I’d say before owning them)

    I chose to sell the better condition one and the ‘knackered’ old 62MAS remains my favourite watch. Aside from the look it’s charm is also so great due to how well it runs and the juxtaposition between its look and performance. I serviced it myself and it’s also has the best amplitude of all my watches. I absolutely love it and wouldn’t swap it for another 62MAS.

  33. #33
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartinCRC View Post
    I am not sure why you drew that conclusion about me from what I've said in this thread.

    Martin
    Apologies, you are absolutely right. Only meant as a gentle tease but reading the posts back I poked the wrong set of ribs.

    Paul on the other hand...:)

    Actually I do think it is a fine line and very much personal taste.

  34. #34
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by verv View Post
    Bothered though?
    Not at all, just teasing (and misguided in Martin’s case).

    I love this watch, in my narrow range of collecting it was quite a find, but if I was that bothered what people thought of it I would put it on a better strap than this £2.50 Ukraine special and I would get the hands sorted. Which I will. One day. Honest.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartinCRC View Post
    In my experience, case refinishing, especially if it is done by hand, is more often than not a recipe for absolutely obliterating the original lines of a watch case and killing the soul of the watch. The most successful examples of case refinishing that I've seen are those shown on the case lapping thread in the Classic Posts sub-forum. I have no problem with many of those examples, particularly where lapping has been used to put right previous inept attempts at refinishing the case by hand. But in general, I would steer clear of a vintage watch whose case has been obviously hand-refinished.

    Martin
    Martin, if you saw some of the stuff I’ve done in the past you might change your mind. I stopped doing it because I found it too boring/tedious and I stopped enjoying it. My way of doing refinishing is time consuming but gives good results, I’m a perfectionist and I don’t give up on a job till I’m 100% happy. The Seiko I did a couple of weeks ago Featured in Watch Talk) took around 5 hrs to get right, even though it was a relatively straightforward design with no brushed surfaces. On certain types of case a lapping machine will always give a superior result, but on other stuff it won’t.

    No wish to blow my own trumpet, but people read comments like yours and that becomes the perceived wisdom, that’s the problem with the internet and that’s how misconceptions grow. With all due respect, you’re mistaken, good results can be achieved by hand finishing if it’s done carefully.

    Paul

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by alfat33 View Post
    I guess Paul and Martin would’t be keen in this then? OK, I probably am going to get the hands done.
    Actually I like that, but I’d relume the hands and age the lume to match the dial.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by walkerwek1958 View Post
    Actually I like that, but I’d relume the hands and age the lume to match the dial.
    Cheers Paul, I appreciate that. I will get round to the hands one day. I do have one or two that look a bit more like the day they were first worn.

  38. #38

    Patina

    As others have said, patina doesn’t mean damaged, abused, scratched, rotten, cracked, etc. The word was originally meant to describe the film that often forms on some metals over time (e.g., copper). So think of it as a soft veil of age that gently covers parts of a watch as it ages. The watch could be immaculate otherwise.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by thisisallen View Post
    If the patina/wabi is a result of My many experiences and long bonding with the watch then it is a beautiful thing. I wouldn’t feel comfortable to wear someone else’s though.


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    I agree with this. I have favourite watches that some might say have ‘patina’. I say they’re beaten up old watches. But they’re my beaten up old watches which I’ve owned since new. Every one of the scratches or scars is as a result of my adventures or scrapes that I have got into whilst wearing them. Not somebody else’s! I can completely appreciate why people like patina on watches, as I do too but it wouldn’t feel right for me to wear someone else’s.

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