Reply With QuoteHave you kept the watch stored away for awhile? It could be fungus spores.
Hi guys, does anybody have any thoughts on what the marks shown in the picture below are, and how they might be removed, please? The watch is a PAM728, titanium case. I look after my watches and this has been nowhere near water (being 3ATM only I'm especially careful). The marks aren't all over the case (not on the back for example), which leads me to think that something has been splashed on it, but I can't think what. I've tried cleaning with pure water, soap and water, then an ammonia based cleaner. Nothing really made a difference, which makes me thing the metal itself has been impregnated (as it were).
I have reported it to Panerai and will be taking it in to the London boutique soon, but wondered if anybody here had a view as well first. Thanks in advance!
Have you kept the watch stored away for awhile? It could be fungus spores.
No not really, just kept in a watch box with my other watches, worn every few days in a random rotation.Originally Posted by ryip88
Pic was showing, but now gone it seems.
I've asked some metally chums, and brake fluid seems a possibility. Tinkerer with cars perchance?
Is one of them called micky by any chance?
Good luck everybody. Have a good one.
Sort of, but not to a brake fluid type level (!), and in any case I don't wear the watch for that kind of thing. Thanks for asking/thinking about it though. I have worn it in the rain, maybe it got splashed with something unpleasant from the road ... unlikely though really.
That would be far too fortunate!
Had some more feedback on the marks from knife makers who frequently use Grade 5 titanium for their work (PAM apparently use both Grade 2 and 5 for their cases, but I can find no info on what was used for the 728 and whether all of it is made of the same grade given the separate crown guard etc.)
- Nitric or hydrofluoric acid make this effect
- Drain cleaner
- Brake fluid
- Cleaning products that are particularly acidic
- Rust eater
- Corrosion converter
- Oxyclean or similar
So quite a selection! General concensus is it will polish out with abrasives, but given the value of this, a pro job might be wisest!
A comment earlier on before revealing it didn't leave the factory like this, was that excessive hydrogen used in the manufacturing process can leave imperfections in titanium which can cause spots of discolouration, which can eventually look like spots of corrosion, but this is usually isolated and is unlikely to be the case for the amount of spotting seen on your watch.
Thanks. I dropped the watch in at the Panerai boutique this morning, and they were basically mystified as well, beyond saying that it appeared to be "permanent" damage, caused by a chemical substance of some kind. It's going to HQ for more analysis, but their basic recommendation is for a light polish, which doesn't fill me with delight, but I agreed to it, if that's the only option (I mentioned a case, or whole watch, replacement instead, and they basically laughed at me).
Panerai has a history over the past number of years of manufacturing faults within its case and coatings production line but whether that would be specific to your watch I cannot say.
Hopefully Panerai servicing do not try to fob you off with some story but they are not the most respected of service departments unfortunately.
If it was any of these materials, you would have remembered using these materials. Hopefully you were not wearing it when handling nitric or hydroflouric acid. As case damage would be the least of your worries.
Hopefully you will get a positive outcome and also a report as to what caused this issue.
Where is the picture? All I can see is a no entry logo
It's hosted at Google Photos - I can see it here (and on another PC I tried), so I don't really know why it doesn't show for others, sorry.
Can`t see the picture, but clearly the obvious answer, if it won`t wipe off, is to refinish the metal. If it's been etched slightly the surface will need refinishing.
Panerai service folks are the best to do it.
It's unusual for this to happen, titanium resists corrosion pretty well. A view under a strong magnifier may cast more light on it, but I think theh answer's the same. Light refinishing will get it right.
Refinishing's become almost a dirty word on this forum, that's because most people don`t understand it properly and they fail to visualise what's really going on. A few microns of metal get removed and you won`t miss that.
Paul
As much as everyone enjoys the patronising reasoning that they don't care for polished watches because they don't "understand" it, it's completely reasonable to professionally refinish a damaged modern watch.
We aren't talking vintage watches that have had microns and microns and microns removed over the years until they're skinny lugged and rounded at the rear. FML.
It's a chunky Pam, I suspect it'll survive despite not being able to see the pic either.
I think that goes without saying. The point being, it seems it takes some pretty unkind stuff, if indeed as a result of user action rather than an inbuilt material flaw, to create those sorts of marks.
Good news on this - I got the watch back today, and the marks have been successfully removed. They initially told me they'd managed it without polishing, although then went on to explain it was done with a polishing cloth and some "special polish", by hand, which is at least less invasive than a full machine polish. I'm happy with the results (and how long it took, less than a week) anyway.
That’s great!
Did they charge you?
They did not.
Did they manage to tell you how this type of damage occurred?
I would like to understand how this occurred.
They had no idea, beyond "some kind of chemical". The only thing I can think of that might possibly have come into contact with the watch is kitchen cleaning spray, but we only use your basic APC, which surely shouldn't cause this kind of damage.
Sandvik Avesta use to supply Ti to the Swiss watch industry, i'm sure Sandvik would be knowledgeable on the marking.
Bry
Titanium isn’t like stainless steel, it can be damaged by bleach, even chlorinated water. I think most all purpose cleaners have some kind of bleaching or oxidising agent in them, so you might have been unlucky with your APC.
Titanium also likes to SPARK>>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-jrN6FiEvA
So you cannot use a titanium case water resistant watch in a swimming pool?? 🧐
I am thinking of purchasing an Omega Seamaster Aquaterra 150m coaxial with a titanium case. This might make me think twice then!
Titanium is perfectly fine and probably more resistant than stainless: - https://swimswam.com/what-is-the-res...l-environment/
Indeed, titanium is the material of choice for sodium hypochlorite (bleach) storage tanks: - https://www.powellfab.com/technical_.../files/810.pdf
Have to agree with the above. I’ve worn a titanium case swimming in pools and the ocean and have never had and discolouration.
I will however stop cleaning things with my watches on, referencing the oven cleaner post. I do suspect there is a member here who wears his Rolex around all sorts of cleaners/ brake fluids and it still looks fine. It would be interesting to hear of someone with first hand experience of fluids discolouring watches.
I stand corrected on the chlorinated water point, apologies for misleading anyone.
There goes my excuses at home for not cleaning whilst wearing a titanium watch!!
Next thing someone will tell me that I cannot use my diving watch swimming...
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