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Thread: New Pateks at a big discount - how does this happen?

  1. #1
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    New Pateks at a big discount - how does this happen?

    I was under the impression that Patek "didn't do" discounts and if one wanted a Patek, one had to pretty much pay the asking price.

    However, in my quest for a Patek I have come across any number of dealers (not authorised dealers) on Chrono24, etc who are always able to supply a brand new Patek at considerable discount.

    I have just been sent this:

    "Yes, we can provide you with a new watch at a 30% discount on the official list price. Your name can be put onto the documents."

    My question is how does this happen? I assume these dealers are only buying from Patek directly, in bulk? Then again, a lot of them don't have stock but can order it in? I can understand a discount on a used watch, but these dealers seem to be able to procure a number of Pateks (but not Nautilus') for significantly less than you'd pay at the boutique or WoS, etc?

  2. #2
    Grand Master SimonK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJQC View Post
    I assume these dealers are only buying from Patek directly, in bulk?

    Why would you assume that? That is not how grey dealers work, for Patek or any other brand.

  3. #3
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    Hi, I'm making the assumption as I don't know enough about the industry to come to another conclusion hence my thread. Happy to understand how, if you know?

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    While I was starting this thread, I sent across this email to the latest person I was in touch with (in the US):

    "Just to confirm Liz, would the 30% off watch be brand new and papers in my name?

    Do you buy these watches directly from Patek?"


    and got the following reply.

    "Yes. It's brand new. Open papers. I got it from an authorized patek dealer. There's a picture of the warranty on my listing."

    I wonder if there was anyway for an individual buyer to get these discounts?

  5. #5
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    Many select Patek models struggle to sell, hence grey dealers will have a special relationship with a certain PP dealer as they buy regularly.

    Been like this for years with all brands, just now not so obvious as many sports models being far too popular and in short supply hence they have gone the opposite way (greys get them from dealers and sell them above market price)

  6. #6
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    Very interesting, thank you. So the grey dealers are essentially walking into an actual Patek boutique and getting the job done there?

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    Grand Master SimonK's Avatar
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    Manufacturers sell to authorised dealers who buy in stock at a wholesale price, say 50% of retail for the sake of argument. The AD then needs to keep retailing stock regularly to make way for newly manufactured pieces or the systems breaks down. Sometimes the AD is stuck with stuff that isn't shifting and doesn't have the space or the treasury to buy in new stock (often necessary to meet contractual commitments); at this point he will clandestinely sell excess stock to grey dealers for a price heavily discounted on retail, thus allowing the grey dealer to offer discounts from retail to the punters. Manufacturers turn a blind eye to this practice, to a greater or lesser extent, as and when it suits them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CJQC View Post
    Very interesting, thank you. So the grey dealers are essentially walking into an actual Patek boutique and getting the job done there?
    Simon below explains it better then I do.

    Cheers!

  9. #9
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    Thank you both. Maybe worth mentioning this to a dealer and ask to be contacted if and when the time comes? Long shot and I'm sure people have thought of this before.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CJQC View Post
    Thank you both. Maybe worth mentioning this to a dealer and ask to be contacted if and when the time comes? Long shot and I'm sure people have thought of this before.
    I think the issue of trust would get in the way of this.

    The AD will have trust in his grey dealer to keep the arrangement quiet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CJQC View Post
    Thank you both. Maybe worth mentioning this to a dealer and ask to be contacted if and when the time comes? Long shot and I'm sure people have thought of this before.
    The greys most likely buy regularly (discreetly) to get any discounts from authorised ADs so you would be wasting your time with no purchasing history trying to get a significant discount (if that is what you mean)

    What watch are you after? If its a poor seller maybe you can ask for the best price and get some small discount
    Last edited by kultschar; 2nd May 2018 at 15:33.

  12. #12
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    A Patek perpetual calendar. Most like 5140-17 or a 5940. These don't sell like hot cakes, but I like them.

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    Going to drop in on WoS today and see if I can chance my arm at this! Will be an interesting conversation... I'll put the credit card on the table to show I'm serious!

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    I’d keep you credit card in your wallet, if you are serious they will be able to tell ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by CJQC View Post
    Going to drop in on WoS today and see if I can chance my arm at this! Will be an interesting conversation... I'll put the credit card on the table to show I'm serious!
    Be sure to look them straight in the eye and tell them rhythm is a dancer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa Hotel View Post
    Be sure to look them straight in the eye and tell them rhythm is a dancer.
    I give you my word that when I buy my first Patek I will do exactly that.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by MakeColdplayHistory View Post
    I give you my word that when I buy my first Patek I will do exactly that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa Hotel View Post
    Be sure to look them straight in the eye and tell them rhythm is a dancer.
    So, I did this, but incredibly, it didn't work. Any other top tips? ;-)

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJQC View Post
    I'll put the credit card on the table to show I'm serious!
    Dahlink. Debit card is serious.

  19. #19
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    LOL, it's amazing how sometimes the solution is right in front of you. I'll put than on the table next time.

  20. #20
    I seemed to remember Thierry Stern saying fairly recently that Patek would be trying to catch ADs indulging in grey marketing...but could only find this http://www.scmp.com/magazines/style/...-opportunities where he says they can't do much.

    Actually remember what their plan of action was : forbid ADs to keep the watches sealed to prevent them from being sold "new" by grey market dealers and that ADs found not to be complying would be "terminated". Not sure what happened to that...

  21. #21
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    OP. You mentioned the grey market dealer was in the US. You’ll probably need to go to the US.

    I was in California and found if I was buying on the day (I very nearly did except my wife nearly divorced me) I could have got a discount off MRP on this bad boy:



    I was actually looking for the 5176A-001 but still I was enamoured rather by this.

    and that was in an AD.

    But it as you found - not happening in the UK.

    Martyn.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartynJC (UK) View Post
    OP. You mentioned the grey market dealer was in the US. You’ll probably need to go to the US.

    I was in California and found if I was buying on the day (I very nearly did except my wife nearly divorced me) I could have got a discount off MRP on this bad boy:



    I was actually looking for the 5176A-001 but still I was enamoured rather by this.

    and that was in an AD.

    But it as you found - not happening in the UK.

    Martyn.
    I would of risked divorce lol

    Did they say how much they were willing to discount?

    Lovely watch, will try and upgrade my 5167 to the travel time hopefully at some point

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by kultschar View Post
    I would of risked divorce lol

    Did they say how much they were willing to discount?

    Lovely watch, will try and upgrade my 5167 to the travel time hopefully at some point
    $31,000 (USD) incl sales tax (calif I think 8%) was the price.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by CJQC View Post
    While I was starting this thread, I sent across this email to the latest person I was in touch with (in the US):

    "Just to confirm Liz, would the 30% off watch be brand new and papers in my name?

    Do you buy these watches directly from Patek?"


    and got the following reply.

    "Yes. It's brand new. Open papers. I got it from an authorized patek dealer. There's a picture of the warranty on my listing."

    I wonder if there was anyway for an individual buyer to get these discounts?
    Do remember to factor in the 20% VAT which you will pay on import if you are comparing US & EU prices.

  25. #25
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    Thanks all. I am actually in NYC over summer and will be trying to make some contacts prior to getting there. Any recommended ADs or grey market dealers you guys have used?

  26. #26
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    So, an interesting conversation with WoS. I put forward the information I've got here and there was some umming and ahing but no admission they do offload their stock. No surprises there I guess! But I was offered 6% off list price, which i didn't expect. The chap I spoke to tried to suggest that all the grey dealer watches would be used. I showed him a few links and he just couldn't confirm nor deny really... Interesting chat though.

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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by MB2 View Post
    Do remember to factor in the 20% VAT which you will pay on import if you are comparing US & EU prices.
    There’s always one who can’t resist....

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster73 View Post
    There’s always one who can’t resist....
    And why not?

    The OP is asking about buying advise and discounts, therefore price is a factor. A portion of that figure are the taxes that may or may not be involved in calculating the total price

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