Reply With QuoteMaybe contact the manufacturer?
Although you might not think they'd be interested in helping buyers of older pre-owned models, I've found many (especially Breitling) to be quite helpful, especially on the subject of authenticity.
hi guys,
I recently bought a new watch and I was wondering if I could have your view on the dial please? The watch is a late 1980s Vacheron Constantin Patrimony hand wind. I bought the watch online. When it arrived (yesterday) and saw it in person I had a few concerns about the dial which I wasn't able to pick up on in photographs. The seller is reasonable and has agreed to refund me the price and I intend to send it back but before I did I just wanted to make sure I'm not being too pedantic about the dial. Or at least to get your views.
I've put a photo below. My concerns are that the text of Vacheron Constantin is not horizontal on the dial (the batons and logo appear to be the correct orientation), with the text sloping down to the right hand side and the 'Swiss' at the bottom of the dial appears to be too close to the 6 marker. All of the other models of this type I've seen have the Swiss evenly spaced between the edge of the dial and the 6 marker. I've attached a couple of photos of other watches for comparison.
I am worried the dial has been refinished. Do you think I'm wrong?
Thanks in advance!
(Mine is the first image)
Last edited by hansblix2001; 19th April 2018 at 10:12.
Maybe contact the manufacturer?
Although you might not think they'd be interested in helping buyers of older pre-owned models, I've found many (especially Breitling) to be quite helpful, especially on the subject of authenticity.
In the close up the makers name is fine and in the long shot it definitely looks like it slopes down to the right. Sounds stupid but it's not an optical illusion caused by the position of the minute hand?Originally Posted by jimmy_lazers
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All else aside, I guess the important question to ask is whether you'd be happy with it even if it was identified as a manufacturing quirk, or whether the thought of the text being misaligned would always frustrate you regardless of the reason behind it?
I thought it may be an optical illusion too but have moved it around a fair bit and also used some photo software to add lines to the screen and centre it and if the markers line up the text is at a strange angle and doesn’t line up with the markers.
If it was made this way I wouldn’t have an issue with it as I don’t don’t mind quirks but I’m not sure I can live with it.
Looks sloppy for VC, but it was the 80s so who knows?
It would drive me mad so I wouldn't accept it myself.
I wonder if the 'I' and the 'N' make it look unbalanced as they've used the two words equally each side, whereas on the picture they've moved the second word across to centralise both words more. Could be a change they've made to newer watches. Maybe worth looking at some older pictures to see if that was the norm back then?
Miles out. Return.
One of the more intelligent comments........there are differences with the word spacing but unless I was certain this is wrong I wouldn’t dismiss it yet. I’d need convincing it wasn’t genuine and the best way is to consult an expert on the marque. Usually it’s possible to spot a refinished dial by inspection under a strong magnifier, but it helps to have a known original for comparison.
As with all things, the price paid and the overall condition of the watch have to be considered too.
Paul
Do you mean the other watch?
Thanks for this Paul and for everyone else’s comments.
I don’t really doubt the authenticity of the watch as a whole. The numbers all seem to match up and I’m happy with the hallmarks, I have the papers too which seem to be real and match the watch. It wasn’t anywhere near the price of a new Patrimony model (tens of thousands) but was about what I’d expect to pay for an older model with this lower level of complication (a few thousand).
The main issue is that the dial seems to be slightly off and may not be original. The other examples of this type I’ve seen (and similar VC models I’ve looked at) don’t seem to look like this.
Unfortunately, I don’t know any experts with this marque. To me the dial just doesn’t feel right (for a brand like this) and it stuck out immediately once I saw it in person.
I’m grateful for everyone’s input. I’ve spent a lot of time worrying about this since it arrived.
I'd send it back.
Even if it's original but sloppy it would be a case of what has been seen cannot be unseen so I doubt you'd settle.
Fwiw it looks off to me compared to the other image.
If you draw an imaginary line through the 12 baton to the 6, then compare the symmetry of the printing, there are very significant differences between the two pictures. One may be right and the other wrong, or possibly both are right and the details changed during production? I’ve no idea which scenario is correct; for me the finish on the dial itself is where I’d be looking if I was trying to determine whether the dial has been refinished.
Consulting someone who really knows these watches would be a big help......throwaway comments like ‘send it back’ aren’t much use.
Good luck!
Paul
I couldn't live with that even if it left the factory like it, far too noticeably sloped or off centre for my eyes. Optical illusion or no my eyes get drawn straight to it.
Last edited by Tetlee; 19th April 2018 at 13:22.
The two photos I added of other watches are two different watches from the same year (or very close) and seem to be typical of this model. The other models I could find from previous sales and auctions are similar to those watches, rather than mine.
I agree an expert would help. At the moment, I think as the others have said I’m not sure I can live with it as it is. Had I seen the dial like this beforehand (the photos were all slightly angled) I wouldn’t have bought it - it’s a lesson to me to ask for more photos from all angles.
It does look off centre and sloping, I noticed it before reading the text.
If I hold a piece of paper across the 10 and 2 markers, it is definitely sloping down left to right and is not central.
I’d be astonished if that dial was original.
Sorry if this is obvious, already known or unhelpful but the hands are different as well.
I don't believe that watch left the manufacturer like that; it's obviously wrong. Send it back and walk away.
Apart from the fact that it might bug you, a redial will have both a serious effect on resale value and, in all likelihood, will significantly reduce the number of interested buyers. The watch is out in the public domain now so the only way to credibly resolve it is by going back to the manufacturer. The problem with trying to compare images from the internet is that the size of the data sample for a VC will be very low. I'd be considering a long weekend in Geneva. Or walk away.
In the Sotadic Zone, apparently.
Interestingly, when I saw the thread title I decided to look at the dial before reading any of the text, to see if I could find the fault before you spelled it out - and I have to say I instantly thought the text was sloping too - in a sort of optical illusion sort of way.
Right or wrong, it'd drive me mad.
Good observation. Unless you have another example photo for comparison Is consider it not completely original.
It's up to you and the vendor if there is time to get VC involved for authentication. If not then the prudent path especially at the sums involved is to return and let the vendor verify the provenance.
I meant the first photo which, I presume, is OP's.
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Don't think they are, looks like the difference in lighting and picture quality.
Quite possibly, I’m no expert and pictures can lose details such as the edges of the hands. The colour difference where the hands are mounted on the pinion looks pretty clear though.
One thing I’d say about pondering the originality of this sort of thing is... if there’s doubt, it’s probably wrong. Every nice Watch that I’ve seen in the flesh has a sort of crisp wow factor, if you’re doubting such a prestigious manufacturer I’d say it’s wrong.
I also saved the image and screen grabbed this from the iPhone pic editor which has a grid.
It is wonky; I have analysed the image in PS and it is about 1 degree right hand down ... I could not live with that ... return if it were mine ...
What model is this? Is it a 33093?
If there is an issue here, I think that it is just an error by the maker not a refinished dial.
If original it makes it very uniquel!
Really? You think VC would sell a visually substandard dial? With writing which obviously slopes. You think they are that sloppy? I don't.
They are certainly not infallible, a mistake could happen anywhere.
To my eye, all the dial text (including Swiss) is off vs indices. This could generally be an artefact of the photography, but we have the OP's declaration that it's there in the flesh. Wouldn't be something I could see myself sticking with, but I guess it's down to individual preference.
That must be refinished. VC can’t charge what they do and allow that mistake go out the door. I am sure VC would disown it or fix it for free if the dial was original
What, VC wouldn't notice that the writing on their dial is sloping? This is one of the 'holy trinity' not a backstreet workshop. You don't need to be 'infallible' to write straight.
It just wouldn't happen.
Yes one of the holy trinity for sure but God knows what happened if something happened before the watch left the factory.
VC in the 80's weren't at their very best.
Several changes in management and ownership, they were possibly not up to spec in QC.
The font etc. seems correct. I would like to hear from VC themselves.
Fake dialed frankenwatch.
Even if it is legit, you'll always see these faults and it will do your head in.
Send it back i'd say.
Just to say thank you to everyone for the comments here (and in PMs) - this is a great community and it was a helpful discussion.
The hands are fine I think - the difference is down to my terrible photography which makes them look a bit odd.
Even if the dial is original, I can’t live with its wonky nature (especially from this brand) and so I’ve arranged to send it back for a refund.
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