I received this email this morning, basically you can either agree to their terms and conditions and to them keeping the warranty card for 12 months or have your name removed from their waiting list. Anyone else received the same ?
“In recent months demand for Rolex Professional models has become unprecedented both for David M Robinson and other authorised Rolex retailers across the country. Rolex Professional Models are, after all, some of the world’s most iconic watches. Their desirability means that many watch traders, determined to make a profit by selling at “over list prices”, are now trawling the country and placing multiple orders to secure these timepieces. We feel this is preventing our genuine, local and loyal clients from getting onto our waiting lists or sadly in some cases paying huge premiums in order to own the watch of their dreams.
With this in mind we are amending the terms and conditions of the sale of the most sought after watches. When we contact you with regard to leaving a deposit for your watch, we will ask you to sign a deposit contract which protects both you the customer and DMR, the authorised retailer. The contract will include a clause where we stipulate that we ‘reserve the right to withhold the watch’s guarantee for a period of up to 12 months from the date of the sale’.
We will hold the guarantee in our safes and it will remain your property at all times and your watch remains covered by the Rolex guarantee during this period. We do this for two reasons: firstly, to make it harder for so called “traders” to sell the watch on for a profit and secondly, so we can continue to look after our local, loyal clients.
We appreciate that some clients will understand our stance and we also appreciate that some will not be happy but we are undertaking this in the interest of genuine customers.
At this moment, all we ask is that you reply to this email stating if you would like to remain on the list and agree with the new terms and conditions or you would like your name to be removed and if so, we will not contact you again. If we fail to hear from you then we will assume that you are not happy and your name will be removed.
I hope that this course of action meets with your approval and we hope this means that we can obtain your dream timepiece much quicker moving forward.
David M. Robinson Ltd”
I don’t have a problem with it. If I was in the market for a high demand sports model I really couldn’t care less if they retained some of the paperwork for a year. I wouldn’t be buying with the intention of moving something on during the first year of ownership. To use an annoying cliche, it is what it is.
Some may see it as an imposition, but I'm pleased that they are trying to do something prioritise local customers.
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The point is, they have kept warranty cards before, as reported by other members, but it seems to have been a bit hit and miss. Now it seems it is part of their terms and conditions, respond to the email saying you accept it or be removed from their waiting list
If you don't like their terms, don't buy, it is as simple as that.
You can chose where you buy from and they can chose to whom they sell - it's business.
But, but it's MY property....
I don’t think it’ll stop the flipping for profit. We’re nearly at a situation where a buyer will expect the warranty card to be at the AD rather than with the watch so buying an almost new watch without the card will be seen as normal.
Just one less thing for the faker to have to fake!
I have replied accepting the new terms and conditions. I have agreed to it in writing and I am sure they will keep hold of all the emails accepting the new T&C’s, that way they will have no arguements at point of sale when they keep the cardsOriginally Posted by Mick P
Kudos to DMR for explaining their reasoning and in writing no less. It's not going to hurt their business and it's their right to do as they please. Ultimately this helps Rolex because it further adds to the brand's mystique of exclusivity (which most on the forum know to be contrived).
The "blame" for this situation lies with both the traders AND the buyers paying way over list price. If the buyers went away, so would the problem.
Clear, concise - and reasonable.
Non-profiteers might just get to the head of the queue quicker with this policy in place..............
At which point they will shout and bawl on here about “How dare they! It is my property! I demand the stickers too!”
Good move by the dealer - I say.
Exactly.
Cheers..
Jase
Not unreasonable really and their motives are sound, both the stated one of wanting to accelerate the deliveries to genuine customers and the (probable) unstated one of keeping RUK happy. Since it’s “take it or leave it” I would go along with it but I would like to know what they would propose to do if they mislay the warranty card.
Or just do w/o them.
Do you honestly think it will make a difference?
When I first heard of the retention of papers I felt it was an unreasonable imposition. I’ve since revised my stance and whilst it won’t stop the opportunism, I appreciate the ADs making an effort.
Andy
Wanted - Damasko DC57
When you buy something, you buy to a contract and if you agree to them holding the warranty for 12 months then that is legal and enforceable.
If you don't like it, go somewhere else, that is how the system works.
Someone email back and ask how they are reprocessing your data (they seem to have partly done this email for GDPR reasons).
Debatable at best - the law generally does not hold consumers to have equal power to retailers and can decide to simply toss out contractual terms if they think they are anti-competitive or against the interest of consumers and represent an unfair term that acts to the detriment of consumers. Simply sticking something in a contract doesn't actually make it enforceable even if the consumer agrees to it and may fall to the various consumer protection laws.
(that's a generic point rather than specifically about buying a rolex).
Last edited by Alansmithee; 2nd April 2018 at 13:08.
Only time will tell if this has the desired impact of deterring profiteers.
I suspect, as someone has already mentioned, that people will adjust to this and accept their cards will be delayed when buying from profiteers.
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Personally I don’t mind the policy as I intend to keep the watch, and it gives me more chance of actually buying one and at list price rather than someone making a profit on me, not the watch but me.
That being said it would be interesting to see how it affects selling the watch if you have to; being a realist im always prepared to sell a watch should something unexpected occur in life, luxury items go first. Would you buy a watch while the papers are locked away in an AD’s safe for another say 5 months? This would be far more suited to Sales Corner rather than eBay for example because you are depending on and trusting the seller long after your purchase.
Has anybody experienced this yet with the similar six month policy on certain Rolex in the past? There isn’t another silly twist such as ‘original owner must bring the watch in to store to release the papers’ is there?
Last edited by trainspanner; 2nd April 2018 at 13:17.
Exactly, was being sarcastic.
“If we fail to hear from you then we will assume that you are not happy and your name will be removed.”
That’s the only bit I don’t like. Do they have a time limit ? Not everyone reads their emails everyday.
That's to cover with GDPR which comes in May 2018 - most companies are do this, it's nothing specifically to so with Rolex with DMR but rather to cover themselves, sensible companies are contacting individuals to get explicit consent to keep contacting them.
What if your financial situation changes and you have to sell the watch? Do they buy it back or do you go in the store with the buyer and sign over your warranty card?
Or do you need to have the watch at the end of the year to get back the warranty card?
I cannot think of any law that it breaches.
If your financial status is dependant on you having the freedom to selling a watch in the next twelve months then I would respectfully suggest that you should not be buying it in the first place.
Ah, the need to 'release funds'!
I disagree, many years ago when I first starting buying expensive watches I did so knowing that they could be sold easily, and occasionally I did, such as when the wife needed a new car, I did the right thing and sold an Omega and my first Rolex to fund it, less than a year later I had another expensive watch, it was better than taking out a loan or car finance and in that time my tastes had changed so I ended up with something different...
This keeps coming up about holding warranty cards ... Why should they keep it..... It's my property .... You don't like the terms don't buy pretty simple really.
I am on list for sky dweller and sea dweller doubt will get any but if they want hold the card it's fine!!
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Their game, their rules.
Suck it up or move on.
They advised everyone of this who called them on announcement of the new models.
WOS are also going to do this.
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I’m sorry but this is a bit of a dumb thing to suggest.
Who knows what is around the corner in life? There are so many scenarios where you can go from a pretty comfortable life, to needing to free up funds in a blink of an eye.
Maybe you discover your SO is cheating on you, diagnosed with a rare aggressive cancer and need funds to seek treatment abroad, made redundant from your cushy job at Maplin / Toys R Us / Prezzo.etc
Extreme examples, maybe, but the point is the same.
Ok perhaps I am a bit old fashioned but I only buy anything substantial if I know it will have no effect on me in the foreseeable future despite what happens.
I wasn't talking about myself, it was a hypothetical question and IMO a valid point regarding their T&C, so I would respectfully ask that instead of making it personal, just answer the questions.
You can give it/sell it to a relative of yours or trade it with a friend, they are not "traders". There's no mention about the T&C of the collection...
Sorry - my poor communication. When I said "your" I meant anyone in that position.
I agree with this. I have received quite a few emails from DMR recently (Baselworld) and deleted all of them without reading as they regularly send out marketing emails which I’m generally not interested in. Being on a waiting list wouldn’t make a difference to my behaviour as I would expect them to contact me by phone if the watch I had been waiting on turned up. Having said that, if they contacted me about something specific, I would expect the email subject to reflect that and my response would be different accordingly.
I agree 100%, but you and I are probably in the minority!
The whole situation regarding supply of these watches is silly. I’m sure much of the demand is fuelled by the exclusivity, which is created by the limited supply, it’s a self- perpetuating situation. If ADs take these measures to prevent the profiteering the ‘lists’ should shorten dramatically, there are far more people trying to buy for profit than to keep the watches and everyone knows that.
I’d go a step further, I’d insist on up- front payment in full on proviso that the watch will be supplied within 12 months........that would separate the wheat from the chaff! If that’s a bit extreme maybe a 25% deposit?
Far too easy for the chancers and fly- boys to get on multiple lists, buy the watch with a credit card then flip it for profit ( plus a smug feeling). Break this vicious circle and the problem will go away.
Paul
Yes I also agree with you - we obviously think alike.
Doesn't bother me in the slightest, I'm not a flipper or fly-by night trader.
If the AD wants to keep the card in their safe for 12months its fine by me, if it puts the flipperatti off & out of the queue in front of me, then more power to them.
Can't wear the warranty card, or stickers anyways.
(Although my only request is to keep the case back sticker on so i don't scuff it up with NATOs)
+1 I agree
Obviously bad things happen (been there), and a watch is an easily replaceable asset, but at the prices they go for now surely its best to err on the side of caution financially.
It's no longer the days of 2-3k for a Rolex, when you're knocking on the door of 10k for a watch, i'd like my ducks in a row before I say goodbye to that kind of money.
Plus it means you actually enjoy wearing it, rather than looking at it sat in a box.
Up front payment wouldn’t be a problem if they could guarantee supply...but they cant.
Soon we will have futures trading on rolex watches lol
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Well at least, unlike with me, they're now being upfront with customers and not just dumping the "we're holding the warranty card..." line when you've waited several months and go to pick up your watch.
Holding back warranty cards now seems to be the norm. Companies that weren't doing this last year have followed those that started it, but I still have issues with it.
Firstly, watches in the UK are only so popular on the grey market because Rolex have kept them at the lowest prices for too long. We haven't caught up with the rest of the world, leading to influx of worldwide grey dealers and bargain hunters buying from stores here. Several times I've heard of Americans coming over in pairs buying as many watches as they can, traveling the length and breadth of the country before heading home with a stash of watches. If we were the same price as Spain, Italy etc, at least it would level the playing field a little.
Secondly, last year, I bought the SD and completely felt like I had no choice but to leave the warranty card with the dealer. I wanted the watch and that's the only way I was getting it. Spend 8 grand and don't get everything you should. Fine, they store the warranty card safely and what have you, but I wouldn't leave the V5 with the garages I recently bought my cars from, so I don't really want to leave the warranty card with the dealer I buy my watches from.
One key thing I dislike about the whole scenario is that if you ask any Rolex store manager who actually doesn't spout BS, they will tell you that "Rolex suggest we take these measures...". So as a result, what we've ended up with is one dealer that wants to keep their customers completely happy and will only remove the stickers, another that will hold the warranty card for 6 months, and then another that will keep your box, warranty card and tags for two years. There's complete disparity between dealers and if Rolex want to enforce such measures, they should just do it, rather than leave it up to the dealers who are basically terrified they'll lose their status by doing the wrong thing. When I had the issues with my warranty card being held back, people told me "complain to Rolex, they'll be on your side...". They were completely on the side of the dealer stating "we can't tell the dealer what to do...", but yet they can "suggest" what they should do to keep the relationship happy with the supplier.
My main gripe with all of this though is the fact it's added rules and regulations to buying something that should be a happy purchase; and the result of it all? Well for whatever reason, it now seems the watches are harder than ever to purchase! Look at my thread this morning regarding the black date sub; I've called umpteen dealers and wstill wouldn't see one of these watches for months by the looks of it. These measures have all been taken to make the watches more widely available to those who want to buy and keep, but yet you can't buy oneTo add to this, grey prices are even higher now than they were just a few months ago. It's all totally messed up and it's such a shame.
I love the hobby, but I don't like being dictated to during a purchase, and that's exactly what is happening. If you're happy to leave things with the dealer then fine, it's completely you're choice and you can do what you like. However someone told me I was "a mug" for letting them keep the card with my SD50... maybe that same person would see us all as such now.
Last edited by W44NNE; 2nd April 2018 at 14:30.
No problem for me
I’m still on the SD43 list
Bit pointless really as it will only delay the onward sale for a year by those in it for the (not so quick) profit
I wonder how many of the ` desirable ` models DMR actually get to sell every year . Why dont Rolex release more models to the dealers and end this farcical situation !
After all so what if a guy makes a profit on a Sports Rolex , everyone has been doing it for years going back I dont know how long . The extra revenue created by re sellers doesnt get missed by Rolex otherwise they should increase their prices and cut it out that way , after all if people are silly enough to pay a premium on a watch then it says the manufacturer could increase their rrp and still sell models.
What next , they keep the box and card for 30 years so as to devalue a future vintage model and stop people making a profit 30 years down the line...?
In my mind Rolex are creating the situation in the first place and need to address their customer first , by making the models more accessible .
If all Rolex ADs introduced the policy it would be fine with me.
Good on them.
I also support the idea of say a 25% deposit to help deter some flippers!!
My old AD always asked for a deposit from me and in turn I dont think I waited more then 3 months. Saved them a lot of hassle and they kept a “serious” list. Of course there will be flippers who are happy to pay and wait but im sure there are a hell of a lot who would walk away
I would happily pay a deposit. Happily. No issue at all. However you will find that no dealer will accept a deposit. Why? because they have zero idea what stock they will get and when. So the risk becomes 20% deposit down 10th in line. Five years later, the call finally comes as they only got two watches per year and there's been several price rises in between. It doesn't work due to all the unknown scenarios involved.
Completely agree with the above and I would happily stick to the 100% up front to secure.
As many have stated before, a lot of the sports being bought are purely to make a quick buck as they are passed over to WF etc etc. Maybe the demand by AD of a 100 % deposit up front and retention of warranty card could free up some of the lists.
Great to see dealers trying to do something about a major issue that the manufacturer seems to have caused ?!?!
Surely Rolex just need to accept they need to make more watches?!? It’s literally the only way this whole profiteering will stop?
I can’t see how making sure you get a waiting list down to maybe 2 months max is going to kill your brand? The lists are huge and people are more than willing to pay full RRP?!?!
I do hope it sorts itself out eventually as I do love Rolex but won’t join the battle personally!!
Other brands must be making the most of the customers such as myself who just want a watch and will happily spend their money elsewhere? Actually I’ve managed to secure a few limited editions on the Sinn and Seiko front for the same price as one Sports Rolex!
Chris
DMR do take a 20% refundable deposit in my experience. I have done that twice but found the watches quicker elsewhere and got my deposit returned.
Personally I have volunteered paying in full upfront to secure a watch that I was struggling to find in the past but no ADs agreed to that, ever. Reasons given to me were:
- Paying full price in advance could be seen by some as guaranteeing the price at that point in time and ADs weren’t prepared to accept that due to potential price rise(s) in the meantime. They didn’t agree despite me telling them that I understood the situation and was happy to pay the difference should the price rise between placing and fulfilling the order.
- As ADs didn’t know when they would receive the watch, they did not want to be seen keeping large amounts of customers’ money for months, potentially years without being able to give them any clue of timeframes involved. They didn’t specificllly say that but I can easily imagine people accusing such a policy as a way to earn interest on customers’ cash.
Last edited by FK77; 2nd April 2018 at 15:18.
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