What to do about Marquez
Imo the race drector should have pulled him from the grid and failing that black flagged him.
Going in opposite direction, well, .... black mark number 2.
As to the behavior during the race; if this has no serious consequences, MotoGP has in effect become demolition derby with contact as a sanctioned passing action.
Imo he should recieve a ban for preferrably sevral races. Thhis can be done by administering the max. number of riders points for any and all of his actions during training and the race.
The guy is awesomely talented but also a menace who spoils the sport by both his menatlity and his kamikaze driving style.
Imo it shines a bad light on Honda now too.
Yamaha was very wise to let Lorenzo drop despite him being the reigning champion.
Well Rossi will have made a meal of it in the aftermath, there's no love lost between the pair. That said, he was a little bit too fighty and had been more than once in his race back up the positions.
As for the start; I find it hard to criticise him too much. It isn't like he was riding the wrong way around the track in race conditions, everyone was sitting still. And let's be honest, it wasn't the most farcical thing to happen on the grid...
Thus?Originally Posted by Papa Hotel
You think it is ok this way?
He was ordered off the grid and ignored that.
During the race he was over the limits.
He ignored it and was punished. Ok, the punishment was a crappy drive-through but that's the punishment they chose to hand out instead of pulling him out of the race so I guess he could regard it as vindication of his choice to continue. They now can't retrospectively punish him again.
Of course they can.
Dito the other stuff.
Incl. past behaviour. Especially including that. It is what a judge does too and rightly so.
I feel a one race ban would send the message to MM and any other rider.
It's just a matter of time...
I believe he should certainly receive some sort of sanction, but as said above, the race w/e was quite a farce too, what with the moto3 incident and the motoGP delayed grid!
I´d say two, with the rider´s points maxed out and a suspended automatic ban for the rest of the season.
The point is that the guy has been a repeat offender time and again like a semi automatic machine gun all through his career. They even had to come up with what at the time was dubbed the ´Marquez rule´.
Repsol openly pressured with threats to withdraw from the sport after another one.
I can totally imagine that riders are not happy with him behind them. Rossi has a point as large as blotting out the whole of MotoGP:
Therefor the bloke should have a suspended penalty above his haead MÁKING him behave so the other riders can forget about this dangerous side to him.
I agree and imo Miller was robbed but that in no way justifies Marquez´s behaviour and less still because it is typical. The guy has consistently proven that he cannot control the red mist. So he should either be máde to or banned from racing permanently.
The problem is he is an-exciting racer - but he can’t be allowed to endanger other riders. There is a fine line, but he has crossed it and indeed been warned a few times without penalty in the past.
It's just a matter of time...
Exciting is one thing, but constantly riding into the side of other riders or using them to make sure you make the corner is just plain wrong..
2 race ban and a suspended ban for any future infractions.....
Boy was it sweet watching a Brit winning in Argentina...hahaha
I recorded it and watched it later, fast forwarded till they actually set off so didn’t really see what
happened on the grid till they showed it again at the end.
Never seen anything like it, pushing the bike in and out of the other riders like that.
They really should have hauled him off but guess with one delayed start already
they didn’t want another one.
I’ve only just switched in to MotoGP from f1 and watched the highlights today.
The guy is a liability and Rossi had every night to punch him in the head for the stupid move which shoved him off and got the 30sec penalty for MM
If that is how he rides he needs to be taught it’s not ok - a ban maybe or just more riders punching him in the head
As I understand it MM got a ride through penalty for driving the wrong way on the grid...a breach of the regulations.
It's about time that the FIM published their stewards' decisions on the net. The FIA already do this.
How about the regulation that says: "Any rider who stalls his engine on the grid or who has other difficulties must remain on the motorcycle and raise an arm." That may not happen very often to MM (whose memory seems a bit off...see video link below) but he'll have seen the correct procedure carried out enough times by other riders...if he has any interest in m/c racing. That regulation concludes..."It is not permitted to attempt to delay the start by any other means." So that's another breach, or two, of the regulations (not remaining on his bike and push starting his bike thereby getting in the way of the start...before riding the wrong way). That's before he gets underway.
Points on the licence having been done away with, there's no way...that I can see...to put him on a warning for his irresponsible (if not downright dangerous) driving. IMO, the only things left that might make an impression are a withdrawal of championship points or a suspension.
Quoted from press article:
Valentino Rossi didn’t mince his words. Not in the slightest.
It’s not just that he believes that Marc Marquez acted dangerously when he tried an overtaking move that forced the MotoGP legend to crash out of sixth place during the Grand Prix of Argentina.
He believes that Marc Marquez is dangerous. Period.
“He doesn’t race clean, he races dirty,” Rossi frankly told media after the race. “I’m scared on the track when I am with Marquez.
“This is a very bad situation, because he destroyed our sport, because he don’t have any respect for his rivals, never.”
Rossi urged MotoGP race officials to do something to rein in Marquez’s aggressive riding style, citing a series of incidents from 2018 alone.
“If you take for example what’s happened this weekend — one by one, can happen, can happen to everybody, you can make a mistake in braking, you can touch the other guy, happens, this is racing,” he said.
“But from Friday morning, he make like this with (Maverick) Vinales, (Andrea) Dovizioso, he make like this with me in Saturday morning, and today in the race he go straight to four riders.
“Because he do (it) purposely. It is not a mistake. Because he points the leg, between the leg and the bike, because he knows he don’t crash but you crash — he hopes that you crash.
“So if you start to play like this, you raise the level to a very dangerous point. Because if all the riders race like this, without any respect for the rivals ... this is a very dangerous sport and (it) will finish in a bad way.
“(MotoGP race direction) have a big responsibility. They have to do something (so) that Marquez doesn’t behave more like this.
“This year at the first corner in Qatar he touch the leg of (Johann) Zarco and go to Dovizioso (ED: Watch that incident in the player above). Here with Vinales, today with me.
“He enter in the corner 20km/h faster, no way to do the corner. Just because he come to me, purposely, between the bike and the leg, because he want to try that I crash.
“He go into Aleix Espargaro at 200km/h. If you touch the handlebar, you crash, you go in the wall.
“Why we have to race like this? We are MotoGP and we are the top of motorcycle racing.
“If everybody start to behave like this, it’s like a destruction derby.”
Rossi was also direct in his thoughts about Marquez’s attempt to apologise to him after the race.
The Honda rider made a beeline for the Yamaha garage after the race, flanked by manager Emilio Alzamora and another Honda staffer.
Rossi was not in his ‘office’ by the time Marquez arrived, but the Italian’s entourage and Yamaha team officials made it clear to him that he was not welcome.
“It was a joke. It was PR,” Rossi said.
“First of all, he doesn’t have the balls to come to my office alone.
“He come, like always, with his manager, with Honda, in front of all the cameras because what is important for him is this; he don’t care about you, he don’t care.
“I don’t want to speak with him. I don’t want to see him close to me because I know it’s not true what he say to me.”
When asked whether he’d accept an apology from Marquez should he try again, Rossi flatly replied: “No, he (won’t) come.
“I hope he’s clever enough not to come.”
Last edited by PickleB; 9th April 2018 at 18:04.
Imo it is an open and shut case.
Marquez has shown, time and again, that he flaunts ALL the rules. This time just about all at the same time.
The bloke is in a class of his own and behaves like that so best agree with him and promote him from the MotoGP class.
Véry telling btw that I sofar have not heard or read a word of support for Marquez from the Spanish side even.
p.s. Dorna´s Carmelo Ezpeleta has commented on the race. Conderning the Marquez situaton:
“Since two years ago Dorna is not involved in the nomination of stewards, they are people nominated by the FIM and by IRTA. They took the decision(s), which I will obviously not judge”.
“In the next GP Safety Commission with the riders, in Austin, we will discuss this situation and for sure we will take some experience from that”.
....
A pity if that is it.
Not going to bother with MotoGP anymore then. Now, óbviously nobobody cares about that but if enough do, Dorna will care, maybe even Honda. After all, Monster dropped championship winner Lorenzo like a hot brick after his unsporting win by grace of Marquez.
Last edited by Huertecilla; 9th April 2018 at 19:06.
^^^^^^^^
I presume that this link is what you're referring to. IMO, Carmelo Ezpeleta, Dorna CEO, doesn't address 'the Marquez situation', rather he was talking about the fiasco at the start before MM did his thing. It's probably reasonable that Dorna expect the FIM to sort out the rules...in consultation with the riders.
As for Marquez...this is Dorna's effort: link. See if you think his words match up with the pictures.
Edit I may have done Dorna an injustice...they've also posted: post-race reactions, plus some background: clash of the titans, a short history.
Last edited by PickleB; 10th April 2018 at 00:02.
Whatever he meant, I hópe the FIM will take appropriate actions as Marquez has a riding stýle which takes riscs with other riders.
As Rossi says, any single incident cán be seen as a racing accident. It is no longer an accident however if a rider HABITUALLY does it as in the case of Marquez.
Zarco could have passed Crutchlow twíce this way. Was entering that corner faster but... backed off because he knéw that Carl would close the gap and going in too fast would cause contact.
Absolute minimum for there to be any justice.
Quite
Andy
Wanted - Damasko DC57
While I agree with you, there may be little that the FIM can now do. The only rule (that I can find) reads:
Riders must ride in a responsible manner which does not cause danger to other competitors or participants, either on the track or in the pitlane. Any infringement of this rule may be penalised by the FIM MotoGP Stewards.
Having already been penalised for each of his racing infringements (this last weekend) I don't know what more they are allowed to do. I realise that isn't satisfactory, so perhaps they'll manage to do something extraordinary and surprise us all. I'm not holding my breath...
Link: "I think it was a very complicated day for Marc." Maybe Alberto can get MM into one of the tutorials given to the Red Bull Rookies or Asia Talent Cup riders. They seem to know what to do if their bike stalls on the grid.
I suspect that Alberto, who I think is very professional, may be quite embarrassed by his rider's behaviour. I hope that is the case and that he tells him so.
The race start was basically run to the rules...
http://www.fim-live.com/en/library/d...ache/1/#page10(link is external)
“All adjustments must be completed by the display of the 3-Minute board. After this board is displayed, riders who still wish to make adjustments must push their machine to the pit lane. Such riders and their machines must be clear of the grid and in the pit lane before the display of the 1-Minute board, where they may continue to make adjustments, or change machine in MotoGP only. Such riders will start the warm up lap from the pit lane and will start the race from the back of the grid.”
(So not having to start from pit lane after all)
So because all the riders (bar Jack) came in and changed bikes, they should have all started from the pit lane, BUT ONLY FOR THE WARM UP LAP then take their place AT THE BACK OF THE GRID
Becuase everybody came in RD make everyone start at the back, but still in their qualifying positions
Of course, because RD delayed the start (which is their right to do*) they could of just lined everybody up and started as ‘normal’ with their qualified grid spots
So RD didn’t completely shaft Miller, and in fact did reward him for not pitting, when they didn’t have too.
*1.13.2
The above (NB the part I didn't copy was the standard race day schedule) schedule can only be varied as follows:
i) Prior to the event by Dorna;
ii) During the event by the Race Direction.
I think TV commentators kind of hammed it up a bit the farcical start, it was run as it should be
RE Marquez, one race ban
more if needed
he’s been quoted as saying that he’s ‘only 25’ (years old and Rossi was young and a bit reckless once too) well that maybe, but there’s a whole montage of MM93 taking people out (including about 6 marhsalls at Silverstone in 13 when he ignored yellow flags) on YouTube and MM93 himself has already nearly gone blind in one eye and has an easily dislocated shoulder through his crashes
He needs protecting from himself as much as the rest need protecting from him
There’s all the expected MM/VR fanboy s**t in the usual places... (but VR once did this, and MM isn’t any worse etc)
I’ll say this.... VR started at the back in Valcencia in 15 with a title on the line, and he rode more cleanly that MM did in the 2nd race of the season with a best possible result of 5th
The moto3 incident in practice, Pasini on Oliveira, Zarco on Pedrosa, and MM on everybody
it needs calming down frankly, someone’s gonna get hurt
Lorenzo got a ban (iirc) and he was never as bad as MM. I get he’s (MM) good for the show, but I don’t wanna watch another fatality on my sunday afternoon’s
^^^^^^
I have to say that I think you're wrong.
Why...firstly 1.13.2 is not applicable. Race Direction did not vary the schedule, they had already allowed proceedings to begin as per 1.18 Standard Start Procedure.
All was going OK and they reached (1.18.11) 1 minute before the start of the Warm Up Lap. At that time:
At this point, all team personnel except the mechanics will leave the grid. The mechanics will, as quickly as possible, assist the rider to start the machine and will then vacate the grid.
Then comes 1.18.12:
30 seconds before the start of the Warm Up Lap - Display of 30 Second Board on the grid.
All riders must be in position on the grid with engines running. No further assistance from mechanics is permitted. Any rider who is unable to start his machine must remove it to the pit lane, under the control of the grid marshals, where he may make further attempts to start it, or change machine in MotoGP. Such riders may start the warm up lap from the pit lane and will start the race from the back of the grid.
I think I'm right in saying that in those 60 seconds before setting off on the warm up lap a few, then a lot of, riders decided to leave the grid to change tyres. So far so good.
The warm up lap should have started marking two minute before the start of the race. Miller would have passed the exit of the pit lane and the exit light would have gone green...turning red thirty seconds later. This would have trapped all other riders into starting from the pit lane.
This caused RD to scratch their head and, after a period of confusion, come up with a delayed start. That they are allowed to do "should there be a problem that might prejudice safety at the start." That may or may not have been reasonable. But note that 1.18.18 Start Delayed concludes thus: "Any person who, due to his behaviour on the grid is responsible for a “start delayed”, may be further penalised."
At least one article seems to back that up (link):
Every other rider had to return to the pits and fit slicks, a move which delayed the start and earnt them grid penalties, which moved every rider other than Miller back 12 grid positions.
I'd like to be able to review the whole sequence of event, but I don't have a MGP VideoPass, so I'm working from memory and published articles.
I won't be upset if I'm wrong about anything above.
Last edited by PickleB; 10th April 2018 at 01:23.
The crux being that the incidents with other riders were exactly that. All learned. Marquez has a carreer of incidents; has developed a driving style incorporating this. As such they are no longer incidents but simply dangerous driving. That has no place in racing.
The MM fan boys should reflect on their star being incredibly good: Being thát much faster, he has no reason whatsover not to wait for the next corner of straight bit to sáfely overtake.
MM can simply not control the red mist and that is a safety hazard. That has no place in racing.
It is customary to award special people an extra, overall price for their career.
Imo it is high time that MM is given a special penalty for his.
I repeat that it is nót about any specific incident. Is there ány die hard motocycle racing fan who has been following GP racing for the past decade who has nót thought ´oh my, I hope MM does not barge into....´ either before or during a race?? That has no place in racing.
I flicked it on with about 8 minutes to start, and many riders were already pushing their bikes off the grid to swap them in the pits. (I think...)^^^^^^
I have to say that I think you're wrong.
Why...firstly 1.13.2 is not applicable. Race Direction did not vary the schedule, they had already allowed proceedings to begin as per 1.18 Standard Start Procedure.
All was going OK and they reached (1.18.11) 1 minute before the start of the Warm Up Lap. At that time:At this point, all team personnel except the mechanics will leave the grid. The mechanics will, as quickly as possible, assist the rider to start the machine and will then vacate the grid.
Then comes 1.18.12:30 seconds before the start of the Warm Up Lap - Display of 30 Second Board on the grid.
All riders must be in position on the grid with engines running. No further assistance from mechanics is permitted. Any rider who is unable to start his machine must remove it to the pit lane, under the control of the grid marshals, where he may make further attempts to start it, or change machine in MotoGP. Such riders may start the warm up lap from the pit lane and will start the race from the back of the grid.
I think I'm right in saying that in those 60 seconds before setting off on the warm up lap a few, then a lot of, riders decided to leave the grid to change tyres. So far so good.
The warm up lap should have started marking two minute before the start of the race. Miller would have passed the exit of the pit lane and the exit light would have gone green...turning red thirty seconds later. This would have trapped all other riders into starting from the pit lane.
This caused RD to scratch their head and, after a period of confusion, come up with a delayed start. That they are allowed to do "should there be a problem that might prejudice safety at the start." That may or may not have been reasonable. But note that 1.18.18 Start Delayed concludes thus: "Any person who, due to his behaviour on the grid is responsible for a “start delayed”, may be further penalised."
At least one article seems to back that up (link):Every other rider had to return to the pits and fit slicks, a move which delayed the start and earnt them grid penalties, which moved every rider other than Miller back 12 grid positions.
I'd like to be able to review the whole sequence of event, but I don't have a MGP VideoPass, so I'm working from memory and published articles.
I won't be upset if I'm wrong about anything above.
If so well inside the 1min to the warm up lap
I think I’m just not seeing how the rules says that every rider bar Miller shoukd have started from pit lane, which is what a lot of people are saying on various more motorsport-cenric sites, when the rules clearly state it’s the warm up lap that must be started from pit, and the forfeit is to start the race from the back of the grind.
I mean I think I get the mood, we all like to see an underdog prevail, but in my interpretation of the rules I’ve quoted above, there was never any scope for Miller to effectively get a 30sec headstart or whatever, like many on crash.net etc seem to be saying
I’m sure if we (I don’t have a vid pass either) watched it again, they’d be some riders who didn’t make the 1min cut off point, but many did and to RD’s credit, having 20 bikes try and start from pit or make up their own back of the grid starting position wouldn’t have been very safe, or maybe even fair
Your part about the 12 position grid drop for all pitting riders works too.
I think (other opinions will vary) RD made the right call.
The MM incidents (from the stall on the start onwards) are a seperate matter
This tweet is timestamped at 18:52, so “well” before race start time of 19:00 BST
Hum... don’t think it will dsiplay, see attached
hum... ipad and forum and file uploading.... not happening
https://mobile.twitter.com/crash_mot...ina%2520MotoGP
trust me that was posted at 18:52 BST
I think you're right and RD made the best of a bad job. However, the rules need to be amended to cope with such things.
There's a replay on BT Sport 1 at 10:30 today and 09:30 tomorrow. I might be able to catch the latter, but I doubt that they'll show everything that went on at the 'start'.
Vale does have selective memory about the balls to apologise remembering him going to Stoner publicly in the garage helmet on...
trouble with the incident is the grid marshall seemed to be confused at what to do which didn't help RD need to sort that but as to collisions as bt said with the Canet incident in FP1 gaining no penalty they set a precedent which would come about to bite them & it did... no one covered themselves in glory, RD, marshall, marc except for Cal, Johan & Rins....
Sent from my [device_name] using TZ-UK mobile app
In fairness to the marshal, I wouldn't expect him to know what to do if a rider ignores the rule (that the rider should know and understand) saying "Any rider who stalls his engine on the grid or who has other difficulties must remain on the motorcycle and raise an arm."
Bang on.
Marquez is a sociopath, no thought for safety of himself, other riders or of what might ensue. This is because he has been allowed to get away with it, and he believes he is above it all and thinks that the rules do not apply to him.
He should have been black flagged for the start line incident he wasn't
So the FIM should grow a pair of balls and give him a race ban and deduct points but that won't happen because they can't upset Honda
Re the thread title.
This week, same question, different track and in QP...
Re the thread title.
This week, same question, different track and in QP...
Yet not much more than a symbolic slap on the wrist. Gave up on Moto-GP.
Will not even waste time on summaries; saves agravation.
Great news in way as is means less time still in front of the tele!
When the MotoGP race was ran, I was dressing some cuts inflicted by a tree crossing the mtb trail ;-)
Will be volunteering with two XCO races during the Jerez and LeMans weekends.
They've dealt with some of his actions:
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