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Thread: eBay Watch Sale Gone Weird

  1. #1

    eBay Watch Sale Gone Weird

    Posting here as I know the community loves a bit of this kinda thing... (Sorry for all the words, got a bit long)

    I listed a Seiko Samurai on eBay (no SC posting access yet here else it would've been my first port of call), and had a buyer with a low feedback score but a long-term member enquire about it. Fair enough, lots of people aren't that into eBay and use it sparingly a couple of times a year to find things only when unavailable anywhere else.

    He asks me to set the hands to a certain time and photograph the watch along with his name written on a note in shot - again, fair enough, admire the guy's due diligence actually, makes sense if he's not a frequent eBay buyer then he probably doesn't realise eBay completely back buyers in every regard.

    In our number of messages he tells me about how he's got the bug, and wants to collect some Seikos to go alongside his grandfather's watch which is the only other watch he owns as he's never been into them til lately. We chat a bit about a few different models and how this hobby is a slippery slope, etc. I find him extremely genuine, knowledgeable in an authentic way for his early interest in watches, and do him a good price (the item was buy-it-now or best offer) and also say I'll root out a few extra straps and a tool to change them as I feel he's a good bloke.

    He accepts the offer and pays, and as this was Saturday I said thanks, I'll send the item on Monday and send over the tracking details.

    I get up this morning, package everything up carefully, print out my labels: address label plus multiple labels which say 'SPECIAL DELIVERY, RECIPIENT ONLY. Do not leave with neighbours, thank you.', get the box ready to go but don't make it out of the door on time because of baby things happening at home, then get sidetracked back into a bit of work - no worries as I can go to the post anytime today.

    While I'm doing all this, I receive 10+ emails from eBay saying that the buyer's account has been flagged up as suspicious and the sale has been cancelled and I should refund the payment and under no circumstances send the item out. If I had sent it out, I was to contact the police and essentially lose my watch and money (great protection there for sellers eBay).

    The paypal account/delivery address shown as verified so between that and the guy seeming genuine I would never for one moment have been suspicious.

    I contact eBay via live chat and ask was this suspicious activity picked up by an algorithm or have they actually contacted the account holder and confirmed something has gone on. The guy on chat avoids the question and just keeps repeating the same thing that my security is paramount to them and this has been picked up as a suspicious account and I should refund, etc., etc.

    Now, the really weird bit is... In one of my early posts here I post a photo of my 10 watch box with 9 Seikos in it and there's discussion about what my 10th (and final) watch should be where I write a bit of boring stuff about how I am only interested in the brand Seiko because of a connection with my father who only wore Seiko. This story runs fairly parallel to my discussions with the buyer on eBay and his grandfather's watch. I have also posted photos of the Samurai I was selling on eBay here in 'what are you wearing' or maybe 'show us your seikos' where the watch on eBay, and my post history here, could easily be linked (the Samurai is orange and has an orange rubber strap on it currently, so kind of stands out) which leaves me wondering... If this guy is genuinely a scamster, has he gone to some lengths to invent this backstory that he knew would resonate with me? If so, I am extremely impressed with the level of research, though of course, totally disheartened about selling on eBay and having potentially been ripped off.

    I should say I'm not sure eBay got it right, I am still fairly convinced (perhaps wrongly) that he is genuine, but of course now I can't take the risk to go through with the deal (money is still in my paypal, about to refund it now and not send the watch).

    Is there a dedicated new level of scammers about? Surely the aim of scamming is easy money, not hard work money involving lots of research for a few hundred pound watch?

    I'm left mystified by the experience.

  2. #2
    Grand Master RustyBin5's Avatar
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    eBay Watch Sale Gone Weird

    Firstly I wouldn't blame ebay / sounds to me that if it wasn't on eBay then no one would have helped you dodge the bullet, which in this case it sounds like they potentially have! It's a good advert for them if so. As for the buyer, do you know them on here? If they got the info from here then they must be TZ member also? As for the money involved, scammers work on turnover doing multiple scams at any one time so the relatively low monetary value isn't a factor really.

    In summary it could be
    A) ebay over vigilant and have got it wrong
    B) the guy is a scammer
    C) the guy is legit but oblivious that his ebay account has been hacked (possibly a tz account been hacked too?)

    End of the day no harm no foul and no financial loss. Relisting and move on would be my advice.


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  3. #3
    Grand Master
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    Strange, but given ebay routinely backs the buyer no matter what, i'd back out as you stand to lose both the cash and the watch if anything is wrong..
    another option would be to explain the circumstances to the buyer, offer to complete via a bt transaction rather than paypal.
    Last edited by ktmog6uk; 19th March 2018 at 15:31.
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  4. #4
    Master
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    How far away is the 'buyer' from you? If it isn't too far, you could meet face to face and he could pay with cash....or not turn up and you'd know it was a scam.

  5. #5
    Grand Master RustyBin5's Avatar
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    eBay Watch Sale Gone Weird

    Quote Originally Posted by ktmog6uk View Post
    Strange, but given ebay routinely backs the buyer no matter what, i'd back out as you stad to lose but the cash and the watch if anything is wrong..
    another option would be to explain the circumstances to the buyer, offer to complete via a bt transaction rather than paypal.
    If you do that you breach ebay rules about offering to do a sale outside their platform and are likely to be suspended, so I don't suggest this course of action.

    Edit sorry I misread that. Prob not suspended but still I think face to face and cash might be best in this case


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  6. #6
    Master
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    I’m kind of wondering why he wanted you to write his name next to the watch

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by lewie View Post
    I’m kind of wondering why he wanted you to write his name next to the watch
    Almost like he's trying to scam someone else using the OP's pictures.

  8. #8
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    eBay Watch Sale Gone Weird

    That was my first thought too!


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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by 200mwaterresistant View Post
    He asks me to set the hands to a certain time and photograph the watch along with his name written on a note in shot - again, fair enough, admire the guy's due diligence actually, makes sense if he's not a frequent eBay buyer then he probably doesn't realise eBay completely back buyers in every regard.
    Seems odd for him to ask to have his name on the photo's, a new photo with time and date would been enough.

    As it stands you have provided him with photo's of your watch with his name on them, don't be too surprised to see your watch for sale elsewhere as part of some scam.

    I'd take eBay's advice and get out of the deal, or if he lives near you do cash on delivery which is permitted by eBay. They get their final sale fees but nothing is paid to PayPal.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by lewie View Post
    I’m kind of wondering why he wanted you to write his name next to the watch
    100% proof that the seller has the actual watch I guess

  11. #11
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by ataripower View Post
    100% proof that the seller has the actual watch I guess
    Yes, but you don't need to write the name of a potential buyer next to it. Simple date and time and a random location chosen between the two of you would suffice. That way its only good for the purpose of that sale. That bit seems the oddest part of the whole exchange.

    I would just accept the fact that you've probably dodged a bullet and list for sale again.

  12. #12
    Craftsman
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    Every time I list an Apple product on EBay this happens to me.

    I would tend to side with Ebay as they are usually right.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by MrGrumpy View Post
    How far away is the 'buyer' from you? If it isn't too far, you could meet face to face and he could pay with cash....or not turn up and you'd know it was a scam.
    I'm in Yorkshire and he's in Kent, so quite a distance - not one I'm about to travel for a few hundred quid.

    Quote Originally Posted by ataripower View Post
    100% proof that the seller has the actual watch I guess
    Yeah this is all it is I believe. Older people and those who don't buy a lot online like to do things in an overly-cautious way, though I know Chrono24 make private sellers post photos of the hands set to a certain time to prove they have the watch so maybe he picked it up there - but that's another level of mystery if someone totally new to collecting knew about that practice.

    Anybody who thinks eBay were the shining star in this example need to remember it took them 48 hours to decide this seller was suspicious and contact me. If it had been a weekday transaction the watch would already have been with him... I was only saved by the sale happening on Saturday and being delayed going out of the front door this morning.
    Last edited by 200mwaterresistant; 20th March 2018 at 22:11.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by bambam View Post
    Yes, but you don't need to write the name of a potential buyer next to it. Simple date and time and a random location chosen between the two of you would suffice. That way its only good for the purpose of that sale. That bit seems the oddest part of the whole exchange.

    I would just accept the fact that you've probably dodged a bullet and list for sale again.
    I presume you told Ebay what the name of the buyer was (or what he said it was) so they could check this is the same as their records?
    And presume it was the same as came up for the postage label?

  15. #15
    Master
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    Where in Kent?

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by TBKBABAB View Post
    I presume you told Ebay what the name of the buyer was (or what he said it was) so they could check this is the same as their records?
    And presume it was the same as came up for the postage label?
    eBay have access to all the information I have - i.e. the name and address of the buyer. The address was a workplace address but with no company name on it. I traced it back to what seems like a shared office block containing Capita and a few other firms. Suspicious there was no company name... Perhaps it would wait at reception until somebody came in and asked for it by name pretending to work there.

    I'm tempted to phone Capita and ask for the person to see what happens.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by lewie View Post
    Where in Kent?
    Whitstable.
    Last edited by 200mwaterresistant; 20th March 2018 at 16:35.

  17. #17
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by 200mwaterresistant View Post
    eBay have access to all the information I have - i.e. the name and address of the buyer. The address was a workplace address but with no company name on it. I traced it back to what seems like a shared office block containing Capita and a few other firms. Suspicious there was no company name... Perhaps it would wait at reception until somebody came in and asked for it by name pretending to work there.

    I'm tempted to phone Capita and ask for the person to see what happens.

    The name was very common, almost David Smith.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Whitstable.
    Not too far from me - I’m sure nictry lives in whitstable

  18. #18
    The tale goes on... I receive an email from eBay saying something like 'The listing has been restored, sorry for the inconvenience'.

    The buyer has then got in touch with me saying he has been battling with eBay about trying to prove his identity all morning and he still wants to go through with the purchase, that I should have had an email from eBay apologising (well, kinda), and gives me a mobile number.

    I got onto eBay again via live chat and they tell me the account is still compromised and do not trust the buyer.

    I asked about paypal's seller protection which relates to sending things to verified addresses and am told in no uncertain terms that if I choose to deal with this buyer I'm completely on my own.

    It's too much for one day...
    Last edited by 200mwaterresistant; 19th March 2018 at 17:33.

  19. #19
    Master
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    I would just leave it. Refund and re-list and start again. He can still buy it from the new listing if he chooses to. Just explain that with all the issues with Ebay and PayPal you don't want to continue but that you are re-listing it.
    Any honest buyer should understand your position.
    Personally I wouldn't take the risk if Ebay have told you not to continue with the sale.

  20. #20
    Master
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    That is too confusing!!! One part of ebay saying its OK, and another saying its still suspicious! There could be a delay in info spreading round the organisation I guess, but it is SO difficult to know what to do.

  21. #21
    Grand Master Dave+63's Avatar
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    Phone him and have a chat with him. A scammer would most likely have moved on by now and be targeting far easier prey. He could well be legit and as frustrated as you are.

  22. #22
    Master
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    EBay are a joke.

    I gave a poor seller negative feedback. I then get and email gloating that he has had it removed.

    I contact eBay and ask what is going on and tell the guys the tale. He says my feedback was fair and should not have been removed by one of his contemporaries. But, he says he can reinstate it so that is that ... the shabby seller continues with feedback in tact.

  23. #23
    Master PhilipK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 200mwaterresistant View Post
    Even a BT is far too risky - why hand my bank details over to a potential scammer?
    Perhaps because the only thing they can do with an account number and sort code is to pay money in to your account?!

    (Remember that every cheque contains that information, as well as your signature).

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipK View Post
    Perhaps because the only thing they can do with an account number and sort code is to pay money in to your account?!

    (Remember that every cheque contains that information, as well as your signature).
    Cheque? We're not in 1982 now you know!

    I wouldn't be handing over a cheque to a scammer either, thanks... But you carry on!

  25. #25
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by 200mwaterresistant View Post
    Cheque? We're not in 1982 now you know!

    I wouldn't be handing over a cheque to a scammer either, thanks... But you carry on!
    If you're not willing to give him your bank details for a BT then you definitely shouldn't be willing to transact via PayPal/Ebay. BT is irreversible.

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by bambam View Post
    If you're not willing to give him your bank details for a BT then you definitely shouldn't be willing to transact via PayPal/Ebay. BT is irreversible.
    It's not the reversibility I'm bothered about, it's identity theft.

    If you don't think this is a risk then that's your prerogative. I do perceive a risk when there is a suspected scammer involved... Why hand over all these parts to the puzzle? They only need a date of birth (public record, births deaths and marriages) and an address (electoral roll) and they're set to run up credit for you.

    As I said before, if you think this is safe, carry on. I'm not here to argue otherwise - each does as he wishes.

  27. #27
    Grand Master
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    Out of curiosity I'd have an occasional reverse image search of the Seiko with potential buyers name by it to see if it crops up fs anywhere.
    It's usually sellers that put their name next to things.

  28. #28
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    Walk away, relist and wait patiently for a high feedback, long-term ebay buyer.

    Pursue this sale at your very high risk.

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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by stefmcd View Post
    Walk away, relist and wait patiently for a high feedback, long-term ebay buyer.

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    This.......and block the current 'buyer'.

    Job done.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by firefoxed View Post
    Seems odd for him to ask to have his name on the photo's, a new photo with time and date would been enough.
    It's so the person he's pretending to sell a watch to can think he has it - because they will asked him for such a photo.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by 200mwaterresistant View Post
    It's not the reversibility I'm bothered about, it's identity theft.

    If you don't think this is a risk then that's your prerogative. I do perceive a risk when there is a suspected scammer involved... Why hand over all these parts to the puzzle? They only need a date of birth (public record, births deaths and marriages) and an address (electoral roll) and they're set to run up credit for you.

    As I said before, if you think this is safe, carry on. I'm not here to argue otherwise - each does as he wishes.
    I don't think its safe in this case - as I said in a previous post - just walk away.

  32. #32
    An an update to this.

    eBay have decided the buyer is genuine, he was flagged up by an algorithm because he used his mobile phone which gave an IP address of another county and as his account is essentially dormant for months/years at a time he was on a higher security trigger than regular users, hence the problems.

    Spoke to the buyer on the phone just before and he was a nice chap.

    It took 3 phone calls on his part and 2 on mine to clear everything up with eBay. Payment is back in my account and I'm going to risk everything by posting it tomorrow.

    Wish me luck.

  33. #33
    Craftsman canuck's Avatar
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    Good luck!


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  34. #34
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    My advice would be don't do it. I have sold hundreds of items on Ebay over the last 10-15 years (including watches, usually under £200) and as far as I know I have only been close to being scammed once. Not quite sure how it would have played out but my gut feeling then told me to "walk away" and risk upsetting a genuine buyer. Overall, the thought of posting what was a fairly valuable vintage Omega when something didn't feel quite right was just something I couldn't shake off. I'm based on the south coast and this "buyer" was based in Glasgow. Sounded very genuine on the phone but there were a couple of red flags and a Google street view of the address showed..... well, let's just say the kind of area where I don't imagine many of the locals would be wearing a vintage Omega.

    Ebay is great when everyone plays fair (as 99.9% of people do) but once that item leaves your possession you've lost total control of the situation. I made up an excuse to cancel the transaction, gave a refund and relisted the item a short while later. I never received any further contact from the prospective buyer so I'm happy I made the right decision. Something about this situation is making me feel the same way. The work address, the strange photo request etc. I would strongly suggest following the advice to relist it and block this buyer if necessary. You can send a polite email explaining that you are not prepared to take the risk if you feel that would be courteous.
    Last edited by boywithabubblegun; 20th March 2018 at 08:09.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipK View Post
    Perhaps because the only thing they can do with an account number and sort code is to pay money in to your account?!

    (Remember that every cheque contains that information, as well as your signature).
    I wouldn’t be so sure. Just ask Jeremy...

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7174760.stm



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  36. #36
    Master PhilipK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tabascokid View Post
    I wouldn’t be so sure. Just ask Jeremy...
    Oh not this same old misinformation being trotted out again. Somebody set up a Direct Debit using Clarkson's details. Because of the Direct Debit Guarantee, he could easily have cancelled it and got his money back - in the event, because the DD was to a charity, he left it in place.

    There are very strong controls over who can be paid by DD, so it's not an avenue that's in any way attractive to fraudsters.

    There are many risky things that you can do in the modern world - providing a bank account and sort code is not amongst them (unless you really don't want people to give you money!)

  37. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by 200mwaterresistant View Post
    The tale goes on... I receive an email from eBay saying something like 'The listing has been restored, sorry for the inconvenience'.
    This email sounds odd given their live chat says it's still iffy. Can you find the exact email address it's from rather than the name it displays in your browser and search on eBay for that email to see if it's their customer service or something similar. If it's legit, it'll be on there, as it's really easy to make very convincing dodgy email accounts pretending to be from the likes of eBay and PayPal etc.

  38. #38
    Craftsman Steelgecko's Avatar
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    To me this is legit. As you are now covered by eBay following reinstatement of the account, the risk is low as long as you send to registered Paypal address. Yes I've wil loads in eBay. No, I don't live in Whitstable. Good luck!

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  39. #39
    Craftsman
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    By the way, I forgot to add that Facebook marketplace is full of items advertised for sale (usually high value designer clothes) that are photographed in exactly the way that you were asked to do. It's possible that the buyer doesn't actually care whether he gets the watch and, as has already been suggested, the photo may already be in use to create a scam sale advertisement elsewhere.

    If you decide to proceed with the transaction I hope it works out OK but please keep us posted. It will be good information for others in the future, whatever the outcome.

  40. #40
    Grand Master RustyBin5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 200mwaterresistant View Post
    The tale goes on... I receive an email from eBay saying something like 'The listing has been restored, sorry for the inconvenience'.

    The buyer has then got in touch with me saying he has been battling with eBay about trying to prove his identity all morning and he still wants to go through with the purchase, that I should have had an email from eBay apologising (well, kinda), and gives me a mobile number.

    I got onto eBay again via live chat and they tell me the account is still compromised and do not trust the buyer.

    I asked about paypal's seller protection which relates to sending things to verified addresses and am told in no uncertain terms that if I choose to deal with this buyer I'm completely on my own.

    It's too much for one day...
    Ok.
    Firstly ebay won't email you. If you get an email about a case then it's fake 98/100. They would message you in the inebay system.
    Secondly if the guy really wants the watch then tell him to hop on a train and meet you at your local brewers fayre.
    Thirdly it's against ebay rules to give a phone number so he's prob gonna get another black mark from them on that too.

    Lastly given the number of users on eBay is in the millions I think it's remarkable that they can flag up scammers within 48 hours. If it were me I'd be feeling all warm and grateful to them


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  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by RustyBin5 View Post
    Ok.
    Firstly ebay won't email you. If you get an email about a case then it's fake 98/100. They would message you in the inebay system.
    Secondly if the guy really wants the watch then tell him to hop on a train and meet you at your local brewers fayre.
    Thirdly it's against ebay rules to give a phone number so he's prob gonna get another black mark from them on that too.

    Lastly given the number of users on eBay is in the millions I think it's remarkable that they can flag up scammers within 48 hours. If it were me I'd be feeling all warm and grateful to them


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    Tbf he probably means the eBay messaging system rather than email.

    I think it's much more likely that the person on the other end is looking for photos to use in a scam listing elsewhere.

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