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Thread: Is Time Running Out for the Swiss Watch Industry?

  1. #1
    Master Alansmithee's Avatar
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    Is Time Running Out for the Swiss Watch Industry?

    You’re 25 years old, basking in the glow of your first big job promotion and a hefty raise. Why not splurge on a big-ticket item?


    Your father might have bought a fancy Swiss watch. But the thought doesn’t occur to you—for most of your life, you’ve used your cellphone to check the time. Instead, you book a getaway to Costa Rica, which you document extensively on Instagram. Swiss watchmaking executive Jean-Claude Biver wants to change that thinking. From his perch at luxury conglomerate LVMH Moët Hennessy Louis Vuitton, the 68-year-old has seen younger generations drift away from his centuries-old industry. He is on a mission to get them interested in watches, before it’s too late.


    “It’s the first time we have young people not buying watches,” says Mr. Biver, who leads LVMH’s watch division. “Time is everywhere. Why should these kids buy something for the wrists that tells them the same thing they get everywhere?”


    Executives across Switzerland’s watch industry have been wrestling with the same question. How can they convince young consumers that mechanical timepieces are relevant—let alone worth the price of a car? At the same time, the tradition-bound manufacturers are fending off Apple Inc. and other tech companies that are disrupting the market with wrist gadgets that track your workouts and organize your social life. The perils facing the Swiss industry have been laid bare by a sharp downturn starting in 2015. Chinese consumers, who drove a two-decade boom in the watch business, reined in their spending. That exposed watchmakers’ growing disconnect with clientele in the West. Swiss watch exports globally fell 13% between 2014 and 2016. Last year, exports rose 2.7%, but still lagged well behind the luxury sector as a whole.




    The decline has led watchmakers to lay off hundreds of workers and buy back thousands of expensive, unsold watches, prying off their jewels and melting down their metal components.
    “It’s not only a crisis,” says Antonio Calce, chief executive of Girard Perregaux, a watchmaker based in La Chaux-de-Fonds, Switzerland. “We must rethink the existing business model.”
    Mr. Biver has helped LVMH’s watch division power through the downturn. Watch sales at the conglomerate’s two main brands, TAG Heuer and Hublot, hit record highs in each of the past three years. LVMH’s watches and jewelry division, which includes TAG Heuer, Hublot and Bulgari, recorded sales of €3.8 billion ($4.7 billion) last year, up 10%. Sales in 2016, one of the industry’s most difficult years in decades, rose 5%.




    The executive acknowledges he is an unlikely candidate to reconnect the industry to young people. Today’s youth culture sometimes mystifies him, he says. Aside from watches, Mr. Biver’s passion is making his own cheese, produced from the milk of cows grazing on his farm in the Swiss Alps. Every year, he mails the cheese—aged for months into fragrant hunks—to friends and acquaintances around the world.


    Mr. Biver credits a strategy that relentlessly targets younger consumers, even at the expense of traditions that have long endeared Swiss watches to older generations. Over the past few years, LVMH’s brands have enlisted Jay-Z and various street artists to design watches, signed models in their early 20s as “brand ambassadors,” bought ads in the virtual world of videogames and developed the Swiss industry’s first smartwatch. He compares the approach to the Roman Catholic Church’s 1960s-era reforms that allowed Mass to be celebrated in vernacular languages, not just Latin, ushering the church into the modern era.


    “If you talk Latin to people who don’t understand, don’t be surprised that one day they won’t come anymore,” Mr. Biver says.



    Compes can spend years designing watches with multiple “complications,” or added functions, such as a calendar. The $1 million Vacheron Constantin Les Cabinotiers Celestia Astronomical Grand Complication 3600, which took five years to develop, has 23 complications. Hublot spent millions of dollars on machines that carve components out of sapphire crystal—a lab-grown compound that’s one of the hardest materials on Earth. It’s used in the case and bezel (the ring around the cover) of Hublot’s $110,000 Big Bang Unico Perpetual Calendar Sapphire. Tourbillon watches (here, the $148,800 Blancpain Tourbillon Volant Une Minute 12 Jours) can be especially pricey. Some of the watch’s mechanisms are in a constantly rotating cage; the idea is to counter gravity's drag for more accurate time-keeping.



    He relies on experts close to home: his 17-year-old son, Pierre, his 25-year-old stepdaughter, Carolina, and their friends. On Pierre’s recommendation, Mr. Biver chose Jay-Z as a brand ambassador in 2011 and began developing a watch with the rapper. Called the Shawn Carter by Hublot, after Jay-Z’s real name, it came in two models: one in black for $17,900 and the other in yellow gold for $33,900. Both feature a transparent back displaying the watch’s complicated inner workings. Hublot says the watches, with 350 made in all, sold out.


    In 2014, Mr. Biver was dining at Nobu in London with Pierre and Carolina when his children noticed the model Cara Delevingne at a nearby table. Ms. Delevingne had walked the runways of fashion houses in the LVMH empire and starred in Burberry advertisements with Kate Moss, but the watch executive hadn’t heard of her.


    “You should take her!” the children said. “She is so cool, she is the future!”
    “Huh?” Mr. Biver said.
    He returned to his office in Switzerland’s Jura Mountains and told his marketing director, Valérie Servageon, to “check Cara Delevingne.”
    “Who’s she?” Ms. Servageon said.


    Months later, Ms. Delevingne signed on as a brand ambassador for TAG Heuer. Since then, Mr. Biver has hired the street artists known as Alec Monopoly and Mr. Brainwash and renowned tattoo artist Maxime Buchi to design watches for TAG Heuer and Hublot. Other brand ambassadors include the 21-year-old model Bella Hadid and basketball stars Kobe Bryant and Dwyane Wade.


    The Swiss industry faced a new threat in 2014 when Apple announced its smartwatch, which can display emails, monitor physical activity and serve as an electronic wallet. Mr. Biver feared the Apple watch, priced as low as $400, could compete for customers of TAG Heuer’s least expensive models, which start at $1,000 and just tell the time. But he also saw an opportunity: If TAG Heuer developed its own smartwatch, perhaps the brand could win a new, younger customer base for its mechanical watches.

    The executive recruited computer programmers and electrical engineers to negotiate with global tech giants over the watch’s software and hardware. The team chose Google’s Android for the operating system and worked with Intel for the electronics. Mr. Biver moved so fast that TAG Heuer’s first smartwatch couldn’t use the label “Swiss made.” Because the smartwatch relied heavily on non-Swiss suppliers, it was disqualified from using the label. TAG Heuer unveiled its $1,500 “connected watch,” which had a step counter and could display emails and run other apps, in November 2015, just months after Apple’s smartwatch went on sale.

    For a second version of the watch, which came out in March 2017, Mr. Biver landed the “Swiss made” label by persuading Intel to move its production processes to a subcontractor in Switzerland. In total, TAG Heuer has sold roughly 100,000 smartwatches, Mr. Biver says—encouraging the company that it can compete in the market. The experiment, however, failed by one metric: It didn’t spark new interest in TAG Heuer’s mechanical timepieces. The company made an offer allowing customers to swap the smartwatch for a mechanical one for $1,500, but fewer than 10% of buyers have made the exchange, Mr. Biver says. The first version allowed buyers to make the swap after the two-year warranty expired, while the offer applied immediately to the second one.

    “I must admit that I expected much more interest,” Mr. Biver says.


    Hublot watchmakers at work in Nyon. PHOTOS: FRED MERZ | LUNDI13 FOR THE WALL STREET JOURNAL(3)


    Other watchmakers have started to try his strategies. Some have hired young celebrities as brand ambassadors. A few have started to develop smartwatches. Swatch Group AG is designing a smartwatch that aims to safeguard the Swiss industry’s legendary self-reliance. Unlike Mr. Biver, Swatch Chief Executive Nick Hayek doesn’t want to depend on global supply chains controlled by big tech companies such as Google, Intel and Qualcomm for hardware and software.

    “It doesn’t make sense to reproduce something that your mobile phone can do,” Mr. Hayek says. Instead, Swatch is designing its own operating system and electronics for the watch. Relying on little-known Swatch subsidiaries that produce electronic components, the company is looking to design a smartwatch that can go a month or more without charging and wouldn’t become obsolete until years after most gadgets. Swatch aims to release it by the end of the year.


    Mr. Biver got his start in Swiss watchmaking when it faced a previous existential threat: the advent of the quartz watch, an electronic timekeeping technology far more accurate and cheaper to produce than any mechanical watch. In the 1970s, Japanese watchmakers such as Seiko flooded the global market with inexpensive quartz timepieces, destroying the lower and middle tiers of the Swiss industry.


    Swiss manufacturers rebranded themselves to survive, limiting their production and marketing their timepieces as the works of craftsmen. Mr. Biver, who began his watchmaking career in sales and worked his way up, and his friend Jacques Piguet purchased Blancpain, a Swiss brand on its deathbed because of the quartz revolution. Mr. Biver directed its engineers to focus on designing highly complicated mechanical watches. He also raised prices and proudly declared the company would never make a quartz watch. Revenue soon began to grow. (Blancpain is now owned by Swatch Group.)


    In the late 1990s, Chinese consumers began to turbocharge the recovery of the Swiss watch industry. Enjoying newfound freedom, China’s rapidly growing ranks of wealthy consumers traveled the world, buying watches in Hong Kong, Europe, Los Angeles and New York. Chinese demand helped the Swiss industry to ride out the 2008 financial crisis. Deep recessions in the West and Japan, however, hobbled buyers in the industry’s traditional markets. A new cohort of younger consumers in the U.S. and Europe saw less value in spending thousands of dollars on a watch, retailers and analysts say. The mobile phone, meanwhile, was becoming ubiquitous.


    Then demand from China took a hit. The luxury watch—a favored gift to grease the wheels of business—emerged as a target of public outrage over official corruption just as China’s new leader, Xi Jinping, launched a sweeping crackdown on graft. In April 2016, Mr. Xi’s government boosted customs inspections and imposed fees to stop globe-trotting shoppers from bringing suitcases full of watches and other luxury goods into the country from overseas.


    Back in Switzerland, Compagnie Financière Richemont SA, owner of Cartier, Vacheron Constantin and many other brands, spent more than $240 million buying back piles of unsold watches in 2016. Unsold watches continued clogging up Richemont’s wholesale distribution channels into late last year, leading company executives to float the possibility of another round of buybacks. ‘When you feel comfortable, you are entering the danger zone.’




    Another LVMH watch brand, Zenith, saw its sales hit hard in the downturn. The brand had come to rely on Chinese clients for 60% of its sales. “To be so successful with the Chinese made our people feel comfortable,” says Mr. Biver, who has been with LVMH since 2008, when it bought Hublot, where he was CEO. “When you feel comfortable, you are entering the danger zone.”


    Without Chinese shoppers driving growth, the industry’s problems in its biggest traditional markets—the U.S., Europe and Japan—became conspicuous.
    Luxury watches suffered from the arrival of a new generation of consumers who want to collect experiences, not things, says Dan Coates of youth marketing research firm Ypulse in New York. For that, people look to their phones, equipped with everything from cameras to pedometers, he says.
    On a January trip to Paris, Goncalo Pereira, a 27-year-old dentist from Portugal, strolled past luxury watch boutiques on Rue St. Honoré, one of the city’s famed high-end shopping streets. He wasn’t looking to buy.


    “It’s a habit that I lost,” Mr. Pereira says. “I started checking time on the iPhone and stopped using watches.”
    Swiss timepieces are “so expensive,” says his friend Beatriz Silva, 25. “With that money I could do so many other things, like go on a trip.”


    The problem was particularly acute in the U.S. The market had never recovered from its pre-financial crisis peak in 2007. That left some executives questioning whether American consumers really cared about the craftsmanship that goes into Swiss watches. Most American consumers “don’t even know the difference between mechanical and quartz, I bet you,” says Mr. Hayek of Swatch.

    A 2017 YPulse survey found that 29% of Americans under the age of 34 owned a traditional watch. Just 3% were planning to buy one in the next year. When younger consumers do buy watches, they often look outside Switzerland. MVMT and Shinola, both based in the U.S., and Sweden’s Daniel Wellington are among the industry’s fastest-growing brands. They’ve managed to sell millions of watches to customers under 35 by keeping prices mostly below $1,000 and crafting canny marketing campaigns that rely on social-media influencers—people with large followings on Instagram or other social networks—to tout their timepieces online.


    To figure out what young consumers want, Mr. Biver continues to consult with what he calls his “youth advisory board”—his son, his stepdaughter and their friends. Last year, he took them up on their advice to buy advertising space on the popular PlayStation racing game “Gran Turismo.” “Young people are more excited about playing these games than watching Formula One on Sunday,” Mr. Biver says.


    Pierre and his friends sometimes give Mr. Biver tours of youth hot spots in cities around the world. A trip to Japan led the executive to begin developing a mechanical watch inspired by Japanese animation, or manga. Mr. Biver is in talks with HBO to design a watch based on the show “Game of Thrones” in time for the show’s last season next year, LVMH executives say. Negotiations are continuing. HBO didn’t respond to requests for comment.


    The seasoned watch executive has also become a social-media influencer himself, a rare feat for a man old enough to collect a Swiss pension. Mr. Biver has garnered 125,000 followers on Instagram by posting photos of himself hobnobbing with his celebrity brand ambassadors. Statistics on his Instagram account report that more than half of his followers are between the ages of 18 and 24.


    “How can I understand the millennials?” Mr. Biver says. “It’s impossible. I’m 68. I cannot understand. But I can learn.”

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/is-time...ry-1520867714?

  2. #2
    Master
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    On Hodinkee you got the gist but not the full Wall Street Journal article, so thanks for posting it.

    I found the Hodinkee article comments very interesting, and well worth a look...

    https://tinyurl.com/y7ny3txo

    Ian

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    Grand Master Seamaster73's Avatar
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    It does land the point nicely that it isn’t the smartwatch in general, or the Apple Watch in particular, that is going to do for the Swiss. It’s simple demographics. There’s a whole generation, maybe two, that pulls out a phone to check the time. And who have better things to do with a month’s salary than spend it on a watch. And, perhaps most importantly, who use Instagram to communicate status, rather than jewellery.

  4. #4
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    Once again everyone is amazed that young people don’t buy £5k luxury watches! Did they ever? Probably more of an issue for a young brand like Tag... though I guess it’s important to the industry financially that people are buying the lower end pieces too and working their way up, and the basic Swatch at times propped up the whole pyramid. But for me a serious interest in Swiss watches is something that only struck around my 40s, when I could afford to be interested.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Itsguy View Post
    Once again everyone is amazed that young people don’t buy £5k luxury watches! Did they ever? Probably more of an issue for a young brand like Tag... though I guess it’s important to the industry financially that people are buying the lower end pieces too and working their way up, and the basic Swatch at times propped up the whole pyramid. But for me a serious interest in Swiss watches is something that only struck around my 40s, when I could afford to be interested.
    Hear, hear. In a world where 20 & 30-somethings can’t afford a deposit on their first home, the vast majority are simply not likely to find value in a frankly overpriced and over-hyped marketplace. I tried on a Rolex DJ at Heathrow a couple of weeks ago and, as nice as it was, I struggle to see five-thousand quids worth of value.

  6. #6
    Grand Master Seamaster73's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S Works View Post
    Hear, hear. In a world where 20 & 30-somethings can’t afford a deposit on their first home, the vast majority are simply not likely to find value in a frankly overpriced and over-hyped marketplace.
    They can afford £1000 for an iPhone X, though.

    Just sayin’.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seamaster73 View Post
    They can afford £1000 for an iPhone X, though.

    Just sayin’.
    Can they? In reality how many really will spend a grand on one of those, vs a 7 or 8? The only people I’ve seen with X’s are IT contractors who’re putting them through their Ltd companies. £5k+ for a mechanical watch that is made in the thousands is still daft in most people’s line of thinking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seamaster73 View Post
    It does land the point nicely that it isn’t the smartwatch in general, or the Apple Watch in particular, that is going to do for the Swiss. It’s simple demographics. There’s a whole generation, maybe two, that pulls out a phone to check the time. And who have better things to do with a month’s salary than spend it on a watch. And, perhaps most importantly, who use Instagram to communicate status, rather than jewellery.
    I think you've hit the nail squarely on the head. In the same way as pocket watches were replaced by the wristwatch the smartphone seems to be replacing the wristwatch. The huge amount of information, in addition to the time and date, that can be instantly viewed surely, in a purely practical sense, has already made the conventional watch defunct. Where our generation perceives a wristwatch to be a normal every day item future generations will look back and laugh at the museum pieces we wore. Who can honestly see that in a hundred years time, or less, that anyone will wear a mechanical watch. In the same way we look at pocket watches as being a quaint adornment. R.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamaster73 View Post
    It does land the point nicely that it isn’t the smartwatch in general, or the Apple Watch in particular, that is going to do for the Swiss. It’s simple demographics. There’s a whole generation, maybe two, that pulls out a phone to check the time. And who have better things to do with a month’s salary than spend it on a watch. And, perhaps most importantly, who use Instagram to communicate status, rather than jewellery.
    I think you've hit the nail squarely on the head. In the same way as pocket watches were replaced by the wristwatch the smartphone seems to be replacing the wristwatch. The huge amount of information, in addition to the time and date, that can be instantly viewed surely, in a purely practical sense, has already made the conventional watch defunct. Where our generation perceives a wristwatch to be a normal every day item future generations will look back and laugh at the museum pieces we wore. Who can honestly see that in a hundred years time, or less, that anyone will wear a mechanical watch. In the same way we look at pocket watches as being a quaint adornment. R.

  9. #9
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    The simple answer is that no one who is even slightly honest can predict fashion trends, if we could, we would be multi millionaires. The biggest threat to watches is that the next generation just gets plain fed up with watches and thinks of them as an old persons thing, something which Rolex is already beginning to suffer and hence is blinging their stuff up to appeal to millenials.

    In the last twenty years, watches have got bigger to the point where we have depressed WIS's lamenting that they were stupid enough to buy a 36mm watch, so evolving fashion may keep the interest going but basically the high end watch industry needs to keep its product in the big boys toy category because that is where the money is. I suspect Rolex and PP will keep going because they have kept the cache but the others will find it more difficult.

  10. #10
    I would have to agree with the WSJ article - demographics are working against the Swiss watch industry - young people do not aspire to owning a nice watch and aspire to experiences detailed on Instagram etc. Unlike other posters, I do not see this changing as young people grow older so that they desire a high end Swiss watch in their 30s or 40s etc.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Itsguy View Post
    Once again everyone is amazed that young people don’t buy £5k luxury watches! Did they ever? Probably more of an issue for a young brand like Tag... though I guess it’s important to the industry financially that people are buying the lower end pieces too and working their way up, and the basic Swatch at times propped up the whole pyramid. But for me a serious interest in Swiss watches is something that only struck around my 40s, when I could afford to be interested.
    I see Tag has released some horrible smartwatches at a price point of £1,000+ for this very demographic.

  12. #12
    The article spells it out clearly enough - the industry became reliant on high-spending Chinese consumers which was a one-off phenomenon.

    Yes, a younger generation may want to spend their money in a different way. But the industry also produces far too much inventory, and seems determined to ‘innovate’ too frequently compared to the timescale within which most people will buy a watch.

    In my view, the size of the industry simply isn’t sustainable, including this myth of mainstream consumers building a collection or trading up.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seamaster73 View Post
    They can afford £1000 for an iPhone X, though.

    Just sayin’.
    Funny I can get my head round spending 5k on a watch with ancient technology inside it, but when it comes to the tech marvel of a mobile phone I look at the iPhone X and go “A GRAND? It’s a f**king phone”

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    Quote Originally Posted by S Works View Post
    Hear, hear. In a world where 20 & 30-somethings can’t afford a deposit on their first home, the vast majority are simply not likely to find value in a frankly overpriced and over-hyped marketplace. I tried on a Rolex DJ at Heathrow a couple of weeks ago and, as nice as it was, I struggle to see five-thousand quids worth of value.
    Value? What’s value got to do with buying luxury goods?

    Want value buy a £9.99 Casio

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by nunya View Post
    Want value buy a £9.99 Casio
    Overpriced!

  16. #16
    Grand Master Chinnock's Avatar
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    I fear Swiss watch makers have had their moment in the sunshine but the clouds are now rolling in on the horizon. Technology is always moving forward, mechanical watches are no longer a progressive technology.

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    Hublot is doing well from 20-30 something buyers.
    I think that's underrepresented here because they're not necessarily on forums.

  18. #18
    Grand Master Seamaster73's Avatar
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    Let's be grateful for small mercies. The last thing any forum needs is 20-to-30-something Hublot buyers.

  19. #19
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    So Biver supposedly asks his own family on how to connect with younger people. You cannot just pick something or someone young people recognise and slap a watch collaboration with them. Let alone consult the children of a watch magnate on what is hot or not. Are the thinkings of teenagers who dine at Nobu really your target market? They were perhaps until the Chinese stopped buying.

    The real issue to me seems as this. As the piece mentioned, young people ARE buying traditional (non-smart) watches. Look at Daniel Wellington and Shinola as it says. And they are investing in these pieces too. Why do I say investment? Because they are not cheap. Spending a few hundred on a watch is a luxury buy. Maybe not for Biver and co. Perhaps even not for a lot of people here. But it is for anyone under 30 in the real world.

    So if people are buying watches but not luxury Swiss watches. What's going on?

    Well how much did a Rolex cost in the golden age of mechanical wristwatches? How much was an Omega? How much were the dozens of common but competent watches churned out by Swiss names that were long ago swept away by quartz. They didn't cost the same as half a years rent as far as I can tell.

    There are a few Swiss watches that are comparable in price to Daniel Wellington. So now having eliminated price as an issue I can only say that the way these watches are marketed is awful. It's still in a mode targeting luxury clientele. It's aspiring to the luxury booths of Bond Street instead of the bars a few miles out in Brixton.

    Young people also do care about quality and craftsmanship. In fact if you look at DW and co you will find allusions to quality materials and hand finishing. We might scoff knowing what's inside these things (but really should we also scoff at ourselves knowing some of the stuff we happily take in?) but that's not the point. The point is young people do care about craft. Craft beer. Artisanal food products. Well made clothes that don't need branding to stand out.

    My own humble view, is that young people could buy mechanical watches. But the entire industry is built facing the completely opposite direction to where the market is looking. As someone under 30 I like mechanical watches in spite of the industry not because of it.

    I don't even care about whether the industry does well or not. My motivation for this post is against all the head scratching Biver does. His absolute bafflement that young people are not buying his watches because they are not interested anymore. No. It's because YOU'RE not interesting anymore.

  20. #20
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    I’m trying to buy a Rolex sub non date my local ad goldsmiths wont let me go on the list because I a new customer and the salesman tells me I’ve got to buy some else before I can get on a Rolex ceramic. The mid 30s will just go and buy an iPhone or Apple Watch.

    All the golf club in my local area are going the some way just can’t get anyone under 50 to play

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by nunya View Post
    Value? What’s value got to do with buying luxury goods?

    Want value buy a £9.99 Casio
    Value is an inherently subjective thing, not always directly linked to the price (which is generally a factor of supply vs demand).

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by nunya View Post
    Funny I can get my head round spending 5k on a watch with ancient technology inside it, but when it comes to the tech marvel of a mobile phone I look at the iPhone X and go “A GRAND? It’s a f**king phone”
    Possibly because we all now consider our smartphones to be disposable assets with a shelf-life measured in months. A nice watch is still considered by many to be a single, life-long purchase. I only know one other person in my social group that appreciates WISdom like I do. It’s the exception, not the norm.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by S Works View Post
    Value is an inherently subjective thing, not always directly linked to the price (which is generally a factor of supply vs demand).
    I was only going off what you said
    “I struggle to see five-thousand quids worth of value.”

  24. #24
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    I rather suspect that it's all just guesswork, and that nobody has a clue what will happen. They just pretend to have a grasp on events.It makes everyone feel in control. Which we are not.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Seamaster73 View Post
    They can afford £1000 for an iPhone X, though.

    Just sayin’.
    One thing which Baby Boomers tend not to appreciate when they tout this sort of stuff is just how much phones are used by some people and matter to them.

    1. That £1000 iPhone X will be financed over a 2 year contract and unlike a Rolex/Omega actually fills a number of crucial roles in modern life where financing becomes justifiable.

    2. For me, £1000 for a phone (which I have never paid remotely near) is an absolute bargain still, for what it offers. I never go half an hour without doing something on my phone. I browse this forum on my phone, I do my professional work from my phone, I do my personal admin on my phone, I do my banking on my phone, I organise all of my social life through it, I use dating apps, I book flights, hotels, do my bills, I use it as a Sat Nav, I play all my music through it, I listen to radio and podcasts through it, it's my desk calculator, I track my fitness on it, I take photos every day on it, I use it as a dictaphone, I read the news, I track my investments, etc, etc.

    That £500/year (minus the cost of the cheaper phone which would have to be bought anyway) that's saved isn't going to make the slightest shit of difference as to whether someone can afford to buy a house or not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seamaster73 View Post
    Let's be grateful for small mercies. The last thing any forum needs is 20-to-30-something Hublot buyers.
    Nothing wrong with either.

  27. #27
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    I can’t see Swiss watches ever falling out of favour enough to kill the industry. If you listen to what gets people in to watches many quote grandparents/parents/friends/colleagues. This won’t stop. Also, when you enter a professional environment and see the nice watches they become aspirational items to own. As already mentioned I don’t recall young people (under 30) owning expensive watches. The industry don’t help themselves here with ever increasing prices pushing them further and further away from the younger market.

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Stuno1 View Post
    As already mentioned I don’t recall young people (under 30) owning expensive watches. The industry don’t help themselves here with ever increasing prices pushing them further and further away from the younger market.
    When I was in my mid-20s it was fairly commonplace for my peers to buy themselves a ‘prestige’ watch. Looking at their latter-day equivalents in the workplace what I see is Apple watches, ironic Casio LCDs or Swatches, or the high street ‘designer’ brands that have always been the mainstay of the market.

    A little like new cars, I get the sense that one of the few factors enabling those who do still buy a Swiss brand is the availability of 0% finance.

  29. #29
    Craftsman
    Join Date
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    I work with lots of young guys from eighteen to mid twenties and talking to them they would all love a nice watch. Mainly hublot or ap but that's just because that's what they see on the celebs / fighters these days. the desire is still strong to own these lovely but massively over priced things

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Kallang View Post

    I don't even care about whether the industry does well or not. My motivation for this post is against all the head scratching Biver does. His absolute bafflement that young people are not buying his watches because they are not interested anymore. No. It's because YOU'RE not interesting anymore.


    That was an interesting post from a perspective that I am 25 years too old to fully grasp. Food for thought for the Swiss watch industry there alright.
    Its hard to see the industry winding (pun not intended!) up anything other than analagous to the classic car scene or worse case scenario antique fodder.

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