Reply With QuoteName and shame, don't offer a policy if you have no intention of upholding it.
Maybe we can all buy 10 straps and return them :)
Long story short, back in January, my watch buying got a bit out of hand and I ended up buying 4 new Seikos in the span of a couple of weeks.
Because 3 of them are divers and look a lot alike (two Samurais and a Black Series Solar Diver), I thought it would be cool if I put them all on similar looking straps.
I found a website that had the same model of straps with different colours stitching, so I bought six of them : 3 leather straps and 3 rubber straps. Before this, I'd bought from that website twice, so this was my third order from them.
When I received the straps, the rubber ones were fine, but the leather ones were a bit rubbish (too thick and way too stiff). Because I'm yet to win the lottery, and the seller's return policy (as shown on their website) was this :
I've sent the straps I was unhappy with back.You can return goods you have ordered from us for any reason at any time within 60 days of receipt for a full refund or exchange. The costs of returning goods to us shall be borne by you.
This is the email I got from the seller today :
We're since playing email tennis where I'm trying to make the point that, according to their own policy I'm well within my rights to return goods I'm not happy with and they keep accusing me of this :in the future if you have no intention to buy and keep an items please do not purchase from us
The store is online only and they only sell their own brand straps (so it's not like you can see them before buying).You are one of these customer who doesn't have intention to buy what they order.
You simply take advantage of honest return policy.
What do you think, am I being a d**k, or does the seller not get the principles of online shopping?
I remember that at least one member on the forum runs an online shop. I'm genuinely curious to hear your take on this : do you mind when people return goods they're not happy with or do you accept it as part and parcel of having an online shop?
Name and shame, don't offer a policy if you have no intention of upholding it.
Maybe we can all buy 10 straps and return them :)
You are well within your rights I'd say.
You order a lot of straps, unseen (not possible), and a couple you don't like go back, as is possible according to their own website.
If they only accept returns when something is wrong/defect with the product they should say so explicitly.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
I'm not on a 'vengeance' mission, I'm genuinely curious to see other people's views as I don't believe I've done anything wrong.Originally Posted by uktotty
If people want to know the website's name so they can avoid them, I'll post it
Even stranger is that they've refunded me immediately, but still felt the need for all the name calling.
To "in the future if you have no intention to buy and keep" you could have said, "I did have the intention of buying and keeping, but the quality of the straps I returned was a disappointing surprise."
Name and shame. You abided by their policy (which includes paying the return postage) - no reason for that kind of email to be sent by them.
That's really unprofessional and completely out of order. I run an ecommerce business and returns are very annoying no doubt, but from your post I gather you kept three of the straps anyway?
So yes, a minor annoyance for them, but they've still made a sale and assumably some profit? So what's the problem?
Writing something like that in an email to a customer - no matter how much you might think it - is an absolute no no. If you divulge the name of the company, I for one would not shop with them.
A crazy response by the retailer - you were perfectly within your rights.
The fact they replied as such when you had already completed (and kept) two prior orders (or three, counting the recent rubber straps which you retained), and therefore had prior 'good behaviour' (by their reckoning) seems not to have been accounted for. Don't get me wrong, they shouldn't talk that way to a new, first-time customer, but to burn bridges with a repeat customer is an even greater stupidity.
I run an online-only store, and all I ever want is for my customers to be 100% happy with what they buy. If not, return it and I'll even refund you the return postage!
I've even been known to replace lost items FOC a few years down the line... If you want people to keep coming back, treat them as if they matter
It's not a difficult concept, but most seem to struggle
Has to be a name and shame as I don't want to buy from them. Why have a 60-day policy anyway - surely 14 days is more than long enough to work out if a strap's crap or not?
I've kept two of the straps from this order. Returned the 3 leather straps (they were all the same model, just different colour stitching) and one of the rubber straps (ordered the wrong size and didn't have a watch that it could have gone on).
I can see how this would seem disproportionate, but when you consider my two previous orders (that I have kept), that 3 out of the 4 straps returned were the same model, and that I paid for the return, I still think their email was uncalled for.
I've tried making this point, but this was their response :
We simply don't want to deal with customers who buy 100 straps and send back 90.
There are pictures there, descriptions etc. Moreover they simply even don't have intention to buy 100 straps.
That's an absolutely awful response - I would just name and shame them, and publish their emails to you on review sites like Trustpilot and Reviews.co.uk
Generally I wouldn't advocate the above, but their responses just come across as ridiculous - someone clearly got out of bed on the wrong side this morning!
I too would welcome the company name, in the Pit or PM is fine, as I don’t want to buy from them with that attitude.
They certainly look like a company I would like to avoid. You are being the reasonable one here. They will not last long with this sort of customer service
Shocking really, they've lost nothing and they have to play by distance selling regs.
A couple of straps? People on my guitar fora send back guitars on a regular basis!
Cheers,
Neil.
You've done nothing wrong and some retailers will even encourage this kind of behavior, e.g. if you're not sure what size clothes/shoes you want then order a few and return the ones that don't fit. It means a sale for them so they're happy.
I would never dream of taking advantage of a returns policy like that. Faulty goods are one thing, but to return stuff just because you don't like it is not something I would consider fair. Anyone who did this to me would end up on ze list, although judging by the number of people who think this kind of behaviour is acceptable I fear it would be a very, very long list.
I think we're reaching a stage where people generally do take advantage of returns policy. Without seeing the straps and seeing how poor they are it's hard to say in this case, but price and expectation have a part in it too.
One thing to bear in mind: a seller isn`t obliged to deal with you, if they think you've taken advantage they are well within their rights to decline your custom in future. I think people forget this sometimes, an advertisement of an item for sale is (techinically) an invitation for you to offer the stated amount of money for the item in question, the seller can say 'no' if he wishes!
Paul
Do you keep everything you buy online, even if it turns out to be rubbish or simply doesn't fit you (getting away from watch straps for a minute here)?
I'll give you one example : outdoor clothing. Every manufacturer seems to be using a different tape measure and sometimes you require different sizes even from the same brand. I have outdoor clothes ranging from L to XXL. In my experience, about 70% of all outdoor clothes available on the market today has to be ordered online, as stores usually only carry a couple of the most popular models of anything. A lot of it at places like Cotswold/Snow and Rock is even 'Website exclusive'.
I'm sure there's plenty of other stuff that can only be bought online too.
What do you do in that case? Never buy anything so you don't have to return it in case it doesn't work out? Buy it and still keep it even if it's unusable?
The world's moved on from brick and mortar shops and online shopping is a huge deal now. Don't state that you have a 'for any reason' returns policy if you're going to get upset whenever someone uses it
Fair enough and I do agree with you that the seller has as much right to refuse to sell to me as I have to buy from him. Just be more tactful about it and don't make false accusations
Definitely not an abuse.. it is all a part of the service they are providing so that you will hopefully make a purchase from them. It would be included in part of what they forecast as a cost; if they don't then they probably won't make it far as a business!!
How can you know you don't like something if you've never seen or handled it? Returns are the foundation on which internet shopping is built and if the retailer doesn't like it they're welcome to conduct all future business from a market stall or car boot pitch.
The retailer has lost precisely nothing in the OP's transaction. In fact, they sold two straps, which is two more straps than if the buyer had never ordered anything in the first place.
Presumably the retailer is not familiar with the Consumer Contracts Regulations (June 2104) which replaced the Distance Selling Regulations?
(...and cue the usual joke: "Round here m'lud they talk of little else").
Why, he refunded for the goods?
Doesn't mean he's happy doing so and as someone else commented he doesn't have to deal with anyone he thinks is taking advantage. Not suggesting that the OP was but people do.
In another thread on here recently it was suggested that retailers should sell returned goods as used. Can't see how that makes for a viable business TBH.
He’s not taking advantage, he’s acting well within his rights given the distance selling regs.
Some people do buy a few things with every intention of sending some or all of them back but in this instance, the OP intended to keep them all. I can’t see a problem, the sellers are out of order.
Good. Then perhaps we will have a return of 'proper' shops in the high street. You know, the ones where you can look and handle goods and actually BUY them without resorting to going home to find them cheaper on the internet, (wasting the shop assistant's time and leading to less sales in the shop). No wonder so many bricks and mortar businesses are closing - only thing is, when all the bricks and mortar shops have gone, just watch the price of internet goods go up.
In the meantime, shoddy service by the seller. It's one thing to be unhappy with the customer, but quite another to be rude to him in the process.
Best Regards - Peter
I'd hate to be with you when you're on your own.
If they're in the UK, they have to take the goods back and give a refund. You can return for whatever reason (you don't even have to give a reason) within 14 days.
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
I always think that dealing with returns must still be cheaper than renting premises, employing sales staff, rates, utilities etc. Much cheaper to have a warehouse. So they can't have their cake and eat it.
However I'm sure people really abuse it. It seems like he's in a bad place so I'd let it go.
No abuse of returns policy imo
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Pretty much, yes. I only really send things back if they're faulty. If I'm not sure it will fit or might not like it, I either make the effort to be sure or I don't buy it.
The person writing those emails shouldn't be dealing with customers!
Given they list someone's mobile as their main contact number, it is likely a very small business. I have a lot of sympathy and respect for people setting up and running their own businesses and I'm sure there are a lot of people out there abusing returns but this is completely uncalled for... And that too when the customer has paid for return postage!
Grow a pair and name them.
(oh, I think you are in the right btw)
mike
If they are UK based, that would be illegal.
The law says that a purchaser has 14 days in which to decide to return items purchased on-line, for any reason whatsoever (including "change of mind").
If the retailer doesn't like it, then they shouldn't be selling on-line. In some sectors (women's fashion, in particular), return rates can run at 50% or higher.
they have refunded me, the thread is about the email exchange that ensued afterwards
good on you then. you must either be very lucky or don't buy a lot of stuff online.
I'll give you another example (also about outdoor clothing) :
I have two fleeces, same brand and model. they fit very well, close to the body, but not restrictive or uncomfortable.
as I was going on a 2 week trip, I thought I'd buy another one, so went for the same brand, model and size.
what do you know, the one I received, albeit the same model and size, didn't fit at all. it was very restrictive and uncomfortable. there wasn't anything obviously wrong with it, it just didn't fit.
in your opinion, should I have kept regardless, since it wasn't faulty?
Last edited by asteclaru; 16th March 2018 at 19:21.
Why did you even ask if you are so sure you're right and all the nay sayers are wrong?
But to answer your question, this is why I don't buy clothes online. However, I am also aware that clothes stretch with use so your tight fitting fleece is quite likely to be exactly the same size the other ones were once upon a time.
one of the two was also new at the time, so I didn't get fat overnight and the same size suddenly was too small
and I'm not saying that the 'nay sayers are wrong', just trying to show you that it's not always as black and white as you want to make it to be
OP - the H&V section isn't just for personal transactions from Sales Corner, there's no reason why you can't name them in there.
You are well within your rights, but I can see both sides of it to be fair, I can see why they are frustrated at 4 of 6 straps coming back.
I sell a lot of my Seiko watches on eBay, mainly the older ones that don't hold huge appeal on here. I had one buyer who bought five over about 6 months and every one of them came back under the return policy with fairly flimsy reasons (too heavy, too light, glass has a scratch - yes I know you described it as that but I bought it anyway...). On the sixth watch he bought I sent an email stating that I couldn't afford to spew another £7 postage plus the same in return postage on a £70 watch he was going to return anyway, so I cancelled the sale.
He messaged back guaranteeing to keep this one, so I let him buy it again.
Never heard from him again sadly but no bad feedback was left in either side. I felt a bit bad about it to be honest but I'm not Amazon, those returns hurt me... if you get the feeling someone is abusing the system it's better to lose a customer than lose a fortune in returns.
This ! We do the same and a good few times we have customers arse us about and you bite your lip and refund them without any dramas . You get some trying to draw you into an argument and you just don’t do it
No, fine, absolutely.
It's just that the seller said:
"You are one of these customer who doesn't have intention to buy what they order.
You simply take advantage of honest return policy."
...like it's the seller's own very generous ' honest return' policy that the OP is taking advantage of, rather than the real situation which is that the OP is just exercising his basic rights in law,
The 'distance selling regulations' are in place, among other things, to allow you to see and handle the goods as you might be able to if you were in a shop. Pretty difficult to tell weight, size, colour, finish, fit, quality etc of goods from a picture.
My conclusion is that the seller is probably operating in the wrong market place, rather than the buyer taking the mick.
The quality of the vendor is more often shown when there is a problem.
Your buyer sounds like a total knob, and I can understand a repeat offender getting right up your nose, especially when you're paying the postage. But as I said in another post, I bet the OP's seller didn't pay a penny of postage, and it was his first return as far as I can tell.
Most retailers don't refund any of the delivery or return costs so it's also a risk for the buyer if what he buys turns out to be pap/ill-fitting/different colour, or whatever.
Dreadful response from the seller, particularly given that you were paying the return postage, kept some of the items and had previously bought from them. The subsequent correspondence is just nasty and unnecessary. You'd be best just letting it go and buying from elsewhere from now on.
Name and shame aswell - you would be doing us all a favour - I certainly wouldn't want a response like that to a return.
Can’t see the issue for the vendor here. It’s a legal requirement to offer returns up to 14 days, and in my experience online shops rarely offer to cover the return postage so they get their product back at no cost. I’d have no issue buying a few things and sending some back.
You kept and paid for some of them, it’s not like you sent them all back!
I totally agree. If the seller was picking up the return postage then I could see it would be more of an issue, but given you presumably paid postage on the purchase, are paying to return the item in 100% saleable condition, they are out of pocket for a little time and packaging.
OP claims I’ve made a false accusation and not been tactful, simply because I presented a view he didn’t agree with.
Suggest he reads my post more carefully, no false accusations in what I said, buddy, but if you don’t like the answers maybe you shouldn’t ask the questions!
What’s the motive behind starting the thread?.......... seeking approval, or just having a moan? The seller took umbrage and let you know he wasn’t happy, whether that’s justified is beside the point, he’s merely exercising his right. If he refuses your orders in future that’s his prerogative.
I don’t see any need to name and shame, it’s an issue between the two of them.
Paul
Last edited by walkerwek1958; 17th March 2018 at 01:23.
I think you have jumped to the wrong conclusion here Paul. The OP was referring to the seller, if I’ve read it correct.
The seller implied that the OP is one of those people who order with no intention to buy which is clearly not the case.
I suggest you take your own advice. The 'false accusations' comment was in reply to the seller repeteadly saying that I had no intention of keeping any of what I had ordered
If you think that their emails were tactful and the right way to deal with a customer, I don't think I'd ever want to deal with you
Correct
Wrong end of stick, buddy, though an interesting response.
Edit - beaten to it. It’s early, in my defence.
Agreed the seller didn't handle it well but I'll bet the issue is that he doesn't actually stock the straps. Many Internet sellers order from a supplier when they receive the order from a customer to keep outlay down. When they receive items back I'll bet they can't send it back to the supplier so they have money tied up in stock they don't want and have to wait for someone else to want the same thing.
When there are a zillion variations as with straps they could be stuck with it a long time which is probably why the bad attitude.
An example of this not from the Internet is car main dealers. Try going into there and asking for a consumable like wiper blades. They don't even have something like that on stock and they'll order them in from a central distributor. They'd rather have the money in the bank than on the shelf even at the customers expense of having to go back again to collect them.
I am tired of people with a business and deplorable customer attitude.
There are rules that govern both sides of the interaction. If they’re not happy with them I’ll suggest they change their trade (I have had to rephrase this several times to make it G&D friendly).
Yes some customers will extract the urine. If you can’t take the heat...
I would support an H&V post as well, and would actively avoid giving them my business.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
If you've got your refund, ignore the e-mails and add them to the list of companies you won't deal with. Life's too short...
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
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