Vinyl revival

[speedypro1111]

Vinyl replay can be complicated to get it sounding its best. You need a phono stage. There are good ones and average ones and bad ones. There are good cartridges and average ones and bad ones. They wear out and sound horrible when they are worn. There are all sorts of adjustments that you can make - tracking weight, arm height, bias compensation etc etc. Arm geometry has to be right (or at least pretty close). Then there is the vinyl itself. If it's dirty and clags up the stylus, it sounds bad. Worn and damaged records sound bad.

So, there are lots of things that can make your vinyl replay sound less than optimal.

Compare that to a CD. You bung it in the tray and it plays. No adjustments to make.

Yes ...seems a lot of hassle compared to CD
And I still think CD”s better

[Incredible Sulk]

Yes ...seems a lot of hassle compared to CD
And I still think CD”s better

A question. Have you heard a really top flight vinyl set up, and a really top flight CD player, and had a chance to do an A/B?

[Magsal]

Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app

[Incredible Sulk]

Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app

Pardon? I didn’t quite catch that......

[speedypro1111]

A question. Have you heard a really top flight vinyl set up, and a really top flight CD player, and had a chance to do an A/B?

In answer to your question ,really
top flight... No
But there again it depends on your meaning of top flight ?
In the past I’ve owned Rega Planar 3 with an SME 3009 mk2 tonearm and found my micromega stage one was better
Currently I have a p2 latest model
And find my trusty old meridian 206 is better to be honest
Maybe it’s just me ?

[Skyman]

In answer to your question ,really
top flight... No
But there again it depends on your meaning of top flight ?
In the past I’ve owned Rega Planar 3 with an SME 3009 mk2 tonearm and found my micromega stage one was better
Currently I have a p2 latest model
And find my trusty old meridian 206 is better to be honest
Maybe it’s just me ?

So you have no direct experience then?

[SimonH]

In answer to your question ,really
top flight... No
But there again it depends on your meaning of top flight ?
In the past I’ve owned Rega Planar 3 with an SME 3009 mk2 tonearm and found my micromega stage one was better
Currently I have a p2 latest model
And find my trusty old meridian 206 is better to be honest
Maybe it’s just me ?

A rega 3 with an SME 3009 mk2, is that even possible? What vintage was your Rega? That must have been ancient history to make that choice? Mine is one of the early RB300 models and I'd say the RB300 would be a big step up from the SME. I have an SME 3009 myself that I keep just because it's a thing of beauty but on a Rega I doubt it would work well!

[speedypro1111]

A rega 3 with an SME 3009 mk2, is that even possible? What vintage was your Rega? That must have been ancient history to make that choice? Mine is one of the early RB300 models and I'd say the RB300 would be a big step up from the SME. I have an SME 3009 myself that I keep just because it's a thing of beauty but on a Rega I doubt it would work well!

Yes it is possible...
Although it was never sold with that arm
I’m sure it was an 80”s deck

[speedypro1111]

So you have no direct experience then?

Not of what I’d call high end no ....
But I think I’d still prefer CD

[I AM LATE!]

Music when at its best is an emotive experience, whatever medium helps to maximise that for you , then that is the best for you. Subdued lighting,a glass of wine, and good company can be an excellent accessory for your hifi If the experience is enhanced by the feelings associated with vinyl then that can be reason enough, similarly the experience with CD. I am a big equipment freak, so don't get wrong, but I have come to the conclusion that what I feel about that equipment causes some bias in my assessment of the sound .... why fight it?

[Slamdoor]

For the average punter cd will sound better than vinyl pound for pound. For high end audio boundaries are more blurred. Some would be surprised how good vinyl can sound but it’s costly. eg a good cartridge can cost up to 8K and that’s before turntable and arm. Silly money really and don’t mention cables!

[speedypro1111]

For the average punter cd will sound better than vinyl pound for pound. For high end audio boundaries are more blurred. Some would be surprised how good vinyl can sound but it’s costly. eg a good cartridge can cost up to 8K and that’s before turntable and arm. Silly money really and don’t mention cables!

This I agree with ...

[bwest76]

Music when at its best is an emotive experience, whatever medium helps to maximise that for you , then that is the best for you. Subdued lighting,a glass of wine, and good company can be an excellent accessory for your hifi If the experience is enhanced by the feelings associated with vinyl then that can be reason enough, similarly the experience with CD. I am a big equipment freak, so don't get wrong, but I have come to the conclusion that what I feel about that equipment causes some bias in my assessment of the sound .... why fight it?

You’ve nailed it,for me it’s the whole experience.

[j0hnbarker]

I prefer the consistency of the CD experience, much as some would prefer the consistency of instant coffee to that of an espresso made at home.

There are so many variables involved, and as others have rightly pointed out, the experience is incredibly subjective.

I speak as someone who has owned plenty of decks in the past (though they were never high-end).

Before anyone asks me what the most I ever spent on an interconnect is, my current speakers were £16k at the last list price.

I’ve still got a vinyl collection but I’d always reach for a CD nowadays. I mentioned in an earlier post that anyone listening to anything on a vintage piece of gear with degraded caps and speakers with foam rot is kidding themselves if they think that set-up is in any way optimised to get the best sound - once more it comes back to the subjective nature of what your mind perceives the stimulus to be.

[Incredible Sulk]

For the average punter cd will sound better than vinyl pound for pound. For high end audio boundaries are more blurred. Some would be surprised how good vinyl can sound but it’s costly. eg a good cartridge can cost up to 8K and that’s before turntable and arm. Silly money really and don’t mention cables!

To put that into perspective though there are people on here who will drop £30k on a PP. £8k buys you a bog standard Rolex. Each to his own.

I have no idea if this link will work - I haven't linked a photo since Photobucket tried to strong arm its customer base - but here's a photo of one of my turntables - a Systemdek 3D Signature. Bit more than £8k, and, with decent vinyl and a decent recording, will give a top end CD player a run for it's money.

[craig1912]

“HD” Vinyl on the way

https://www.theverge.com/circuitbrea...ing-time-audio

[Rod]

A rega 3 with an SME 3009 mk2, is that even possible? What vintage was your Rega? That must have been ancient history to make that choice? Mine is one of the early RB300 models and I'd say the RB300 would be a big step up from the SME. I have an SME 3009 myself that I keep just because it's a thing of beauty but on a Rega I doubt it would work well!

SME arms were designed to use high compliance tracking MM cartridges..e.g. Shure V15's. They could never be used for MC cartridges that the RB300 would take.
The ultimate 70's deck probably sported a SME3009 arm/V15 on a GrimKondek or Garrard 401, through a Quad setup and Electrostatics.

[Mick P]

For the average punter cd will sound better than vinyl pound for pound. For high end audio boundaries are more blurred. Some would be surprised how good vinyl can sound but it’s costly. eg a good cartridge can cost up to 8K and that’s before turntable and arm. Silly money really and don’t mention cables!

This is very true.

I have a Naim CDS3 CD player and Garrard 401 Record deck.

The CD player is a once off purchase but the Garrard needs a decent arm (Naim Aro), a decent cartridge - think about a grand, a PSU - about £1500, a decent plinth - about £500 and finally a decent record cleaner that does not deafen you, and that set me back £1100.

The cartridges last about 4/5 years if you look after them.

The reason why CD almost killed vinyl was that back in the eighties, most vinyl systems were cheap rubbish with plenty of snap, crackle and pop.

Today it has become a big boys toy and if you spend enough money on it, it is just superb.

[speedypro1111]

SME arms were designed to use high compliance tracking MM cartridges..e.g. Shure V15's. They could never be used for MC cartridges that the RB300 would take.
The ultimate 70's deck probably sported a SME3009 arm/V15 on a GrimKondek or Garrard 401, through a Quad setup and Electrostatics.

I once owned the 33/303fm3 quad system with some Els 57’s
I picked them up for next to nothing ,wasn’t keen on the amps but the speakers were very good
Slightly too big for my bedroom at my mothers ;-)
I had a day out in liecester selling them to a dealer

[bwest76]

This is very true.

I have a Naim CDS3 CD player and Garrard 401 Record deck.

The CD player is a once off purchase but the Garrard needs a decent arm (Naim Aro), a decent cartridge - think about a grand, a PSU - about £1500, a decent plinth - about £500 and finally a decent record cleaner that does not deafen you, and that set me back £1100.

The cartridges last about 4/5 years if you look after them.

The reason why CD almost killed vinyl was that back in the eighties, most vinyl systems were cheap rubbish with plenty of snap, crackle and pop.

Today it has become a big boys toy and if you spend enough money on it, it is just superb.

I enjoy my cheap vinyl set up very much,though I am not competing with CDs I just enjoy what I have.

Strangely sometimes like now I just enjoying listening to my radio.

[zelig]

I enjoy my cheap vinyl set up very much,though I am not competing with CDs I just enjoy what I have.

+1
I bought my setup over a decade ago.
Most of the separates are long gone.
Now it’s my more modest setup is used to resurrect old vinyl I’d bought years ago - or to listen to bargains I find whilst I’m out & about.

Generally, I don’t buy anything new on vinyl - not because of any audiophile reasons - I do like the softer sound I get from vinyl - but mainly just for convenience.

z

[SimonH]

SME arms were designed to use high compliance tracking MM cartridges..e.g. Shure V15's. They could never be used for MC cartridges that the RB300 would take.
The ultimate 70's deck probably sported a SME3009 arm/V15 on a GrimKondek or Garrard 401, through a Quad setup and Electrostatics.

You forgot the Thorens TD125...which is what I have albeit it has the TP16 mk2 - I bought the SME to fit to it but the TP16 is excellent and (whisper it) some people think better than the SME. It has a Shure V15 with a fancy stylus and sounds great. It cost me £90!

I have my 80s vintage Rega in my office and it's a nice sounding thing but nowhere near as good as the Thorens.

I read somewhere today that pre-in-house arms the Planar was available with the SME arm so there you go. I doubted the geometry etc. would work out but I guess if they were available as an option it would, or maybe the original Acos based arms shared the geometry.

[craig1912]

In the early 80’s an SME arm and regal turntable was a recommended combination

[Belligero]

Vinyl replay can be complicated to get it sounding its best. You need a phono stage. There are good ones and average ones and bad ones. There are good cartridges and average ones and bad ones. They wear out and sound horrible when they are worn. There are all sorts of adjustments that you can make - tracking weight, arm height, bias compensation etc etc. Arm geometry has to be right (or at least pretty close). Then there is the vinyl itself. If it's dirty and clags up the stylus, it sounds bad. Worn and damaged records sound bad.

So, there are lots of things that can make your vinyl replay sound less than optimal.

Compare that to a CD. You bung it in the tray and it plays. No adjustments to make.

As good as vinyl can get — which is quite good — there's no doubt that it's an inferior medium in terms of sound quality to a high-grade digital source when comparing like recordings. But I'll take a great vinyl recording over an over-compressed CD one every time.

However, the process of putting on an LP, with its attendant tactile and visual elements, tends to be a satisfying and enjoyable one. No doubt that's the real reason that people convince themselves that it sounds better. Plus there's the cool-gadget factor that appeals to some, and when taken too far has led to a dark-but-hilarious world of scam products (such as extremely-expensive cables, enchanted ribbons and magic rocks) to separate fools from their money.

In any case, it's pretty sweet to listen to good music on a well-tuned vinyl setup.

Thanks. You'd be surprised though.. Bought the speakers off the builder of them for £800 (albeit about 18 years ago), likewise the amps - can't remember how much they were, but again £800 rings a bell (£100 for each monoblock and £200 for the pre-amp)

Turntable is about £2k all in (with cartridge) so not as expensive as some shown on here.

If you look about and scour the ads you can pick up some bargains. I actually gave away a Thorens TD160B with a SME 3009 arm on it to a friends son who wanted to get into records - he still has it.

Cool system! Thanks for sharing. :)

[MrSmith]

In the early 80’s an SME arm and regal turntable was a recommended combination

rb 250 and rb300 were released in 83 and 84 and then pretty much owned the high end/low price arm market for the rest of the decade.

[Rod]

I once owned the 33/303fm3 quad system with some Els 57’s
I picked them up for next to nothing ,wasn’t keen on the amps but the speakers were very good
Slightly too big for my bedroom at my mothers ;-)
I had a day out in liecester selling them to a dealer

I had a customer who won a high end system in the BBC Music magazine. The magazine asked me to install it for him. We took it out one evening to his home. He turned out to be the violin maker Roger Hansell making bespoke violins for musicians.

When we aked him where he wanted it installing he declined and said he would just sell it as it wouldn't meet his exacting standards in reproduction.
We went into the room where his Quad 33/303 amps were and ELS57's resided.

He said the set up was the best for testing his violins and nothing else came near it. After listening we were very impressed, the sound was very accurate and all the acoustic nuances of his violins could be heard clearly.

I also received a purchase order once from Billingham ICI for two Quad 303's... when I asked what they were going to be used for they said 'To test the frequency response of bricks' !!

http://www.hansellviolins.com/

[Mick P]

I enjoy my cheap vinyl set up very much,though I am not competing with CDs I just enjoy what I have.

Strangely sometimes like now I just enjoying listening to my radio.

I wish to God I was like you.

I was on an audio upgrade trail for years. Fortunately I am now happy with what I have got.

[speedypro1111]

I had a customer who won a high end system in the BBC Music magazine. The magazine asked me to install it for him. We took it out one evening to his home. He turned out to be the violin maker Roger Hansell making bespoke violins for musicians.

When we aked him where he wanted it installing he declined and said he would just sell it as it wouldn't meet his exacting standards in reproduction.
We went into the room where his Quad 33/303 amps were and ELS57's resided.

He said the set up was the best for testing his violins and nothing else came near it. After listening we were very impressed, the sound was very accurate and all the acoustic nuances of his violins could be heard clearly.

I also received a purchase order once from Billingham ICI for two Quad 303's... when I asked what they were going to be used for they said 'To test the frequency response of bricks' !!

http://www.hansellviolins.com/

Sadly all my quad gear went a long time ago now
I remember the power chords and Din cables looking like an electric shock waiting to happen...lol
It was a bit too vintage even for me ...I’m currently using a 21 pre and Dual 4 exposure

[Coops365]

I feel very out of my depth in here with the set-ups being discussed.
I'm looking at getting my first turntable in my adult life and hooking it up to a very simple Denon M41 micro system. Even with that I think the turntable will be more expensive than the mother system.

[Rod]

I feel very out of my depth in here with the set-ups being discussed.
I'm looking at getting my first turntable in my adult life and hooking it up to a very simple Denon M41 micro system. Even with that I think the turntable will be more expensive than the mother system.

Just be aware that there isn't a 'Phono/turntable input' so you will need a turntable with either a phono stage built in or a seperate one. This is the best one for your system...........

https://www.henleyaudio.co.uk/produc...s=1&BrandIds=2

[bwest76]

I feel very out of my depth in here with the set-ups being discussed.
I'm looking at getting my first turntable in my adult life and hooking it up to a very simple Denon M41 micro system. Even with that I think the turntable will be more expensive than the mother system.

So do I to a degree,but it’s not that complicated,give it some thought as to what you are buying.
you may want to go onto a full size system if you have room.

my system is pretty simple and relatively inexpensive.
though when a deck costing close to £400 is regarded as entry level it’s obviously a expensive game to some.

[walkerwek1958]

Having had a few weeks to get used to playing vinyl again, I’ll stick with my current set-up and resist the temptation to get caught up in upgrades.

Currently listening to The Specials (first album)............. love it!

Paul

[Skyman]

Status Quo, 12 Gold Bars here......
But I have just ordered a full spec LP12 Klimax to replace my (new) RP8 Apheta. I love the upgrade disease!

[Coops365]

Just be aware that there isn't a 'Phono/turntable input' so you will need a turntable with either a phono stage built in or a seperate one. This is the best one for your system...........

https://www.henleyaudio.co.uk/produc...s=1&BrandIds=2

I'll be honest I'd been looking at this one. https://www.whathifi.com/audio-technica/lp5/review
May I ask why you would choose the Pro-Ject?

[ktmog6uk]

Having had a few weeks to get used to playing vinyl again, I’ll stick with my current set-up and resist the temptation to get caught up in upgrades.

Currently listening to The Specials (first album)............. love it!

Paul

right attitude!
Black Sabbath Heaven And Hell for me just now..

[bwest76]

Having had a few weeks to get used to playing vinyl again, I’ll stick with my current set-up and resist the temptation to get caught up in upgrades.

Currently listening to The Specials (first album)............. love it!

Paul

So do I and the second

“Your wondering now”

[Skyman]

right attitude!
Black Sabbath Heaven And Hell for me just now..

I don’t suppose you want to sell that do you?

[walkerwek1958]

So do I and the second

“Your wondering now”

‘More Specials’.......got it on CD!

[Rod]

I'll be honest I'd been looking at this one. https://www.whathifi.com/audio-technica/lp5/review
May I ask why you would choose the Pro-Ject?

As a former independent HiFi dealer, Project have a good pedigree in engineering and produce some high quality turntables. We liked the sound quality and non-gimmiky approach to features. This best features went into the bearings, motor, tonearm, and a decent Ortofon cartridge.
Don't get me wrong, the AT turntable isn't bad, it's your choice.
There is also the Project Primary phono USB to consider

https://www.henleyaudio.co.uk/produc...mary-phono-usb

[Meesterbond]

Having moved my Gyrodec a couple of times and having to replace the cart, my turntable really needs to be set up properly again. The tracking weight etc is completely out and in fact the whole thing needs leveling and a good tune up.

It was really well set up (in my house) when I bought it so I've never had to touch it, but I'm assuming it's possible to do this all myself? Do I need a tracking gauge, protractor etc etc and can anyone recommend a decent guide to talk me through it?

[dandanthewatchman]

I still have a lot of old records....but the passage of time/house moves/wife mean that I now have no HiFi at all save for a Naim Mu-So

do any of these decks have the ability to run through said MuSo ?

[Coops365]

As a former independent HiFi dealer, Project have a good pedigree in engineering and produce some high quality turntables. We liked the sound quality and non-gimmiky approach to features. This best features went into the bearings, motor, tonearm, and a decent Ortofon cartridge.
Don't get me wrong, the AT turntable isn't bad, it's your choice.
There is also the Project Primary phono USB to consider

https://www.henleyaudio.co.uk/produc...mary-phono-usb

Thank you for the information. As a novice it's greatly appreciated. I shall do some more reading! :)

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

[ktmog6uk]

I don’t suppose you want to sell that do you?

errrmmm...no!
Looking for a Mob Rules to complement it at the moment,

[Skyman]

errrmmm...no!
Looking for a Mob Rules to complement it at the moment,

Understandable!

[ktmog6uk]

I don’t suppose you want to sell that do you?

Understandable!

Onto a plum/orange label Led Zep 1 now....

[walkerwek1958]

Funny thing happened today. Had a problem with my house alarm, so I called a local firm to sort it out. I`ve owned the house from new and still have a file with all the bumf we received from the builders in May '99, including the alarm details.

When I dug these out to find the engineers code for the service guy, I found my long-lost Thorens TD160 Mk 1V Owners manual dating back to 1988!

God knows how it ended up there, but the pleasure in finding it took away the aftertaste of parting with a wad of cash to get the alarm sorted. Pity the original template for cartridge alignment didn`t turn up too, but I think I can download that from the internet. I`ve set the cartridge up by eye and I think it's pretty close, but I guess I should take it to the nth degree and get it bang-on if possible. At least the instructions in the manual confirm that I`d remembered how to do it correctly, it's not rocket science with the Thorens arm and counterweight set-up.

Paul

[ktmog6uk]

Funny thing happened today. Had a problem with my house alarm, so I called a local firm to sort it out. I`ve owned the house from new and still have a file with all the bumf we received from the builders in May '99, including the alarm details.

When I dug these out to find the engineers code for the service guy, I found my long-lost Thorens TD160 Mk 1V Owners manual dating back to 1988!

God knows how it ended up there, but the pleasure in finding it took away the aftertaste of parting with a wad of cash to get the alarm sorted. Pity the original template for cartridge alignment didn`t turn up too, but I think I can download that from the internet. I`ve set the cartridge up by eye and I think it's pretty close, but I guess I should take it to the nth degree and get it bang-on if possible. At least the instructions in the manual confirm that I`d remembered how to do it correctly, it's not rocket science with the Thorens arm and counterweight set-up.

Paul

I've got a kit of paper/card alignments and measurers, with instructions on use. i could pop it in with the omega when i send it paul.

[ktmog6uk]

heads up Led Zeppelin fans, just snagged How The West Was Won 4lp box set on Amazon for a bargainous £49.01!

[Skyman]

heads up Led Zeppelin fans, just snagged How The West Was Won 4lp box set on Amazon for a bargainous £49.01!

How so?

[emo72]

heads up Led Zeppelin fans, just snagged How The West Was Won 4lp box set on Amazon for a bargainous £49.01!

had a look too. no luck with my look sadly.