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Thread: Tyres

  1. #1
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    Tyres

    At my MoT a few months back, the tester thought he saw a nail in one of my rear tyres and so sent me to a local tyre fitter. They couldn't see a nail luckily.

    They did say the rear tyres had a couple of thousand miles in them (or something like that). They also mentioned some slight irregular wear which they then said was characteristic of BMW. (Mine's an old 3 series.)

    Went to a tyre place today and they want to charge me £75 for alignment. They say it's probably been knocked out over time by potholes, etc., nothing to do with being a BMW.

    I was planning on changing the tyres but having looked, I'm not sure they need to be changed just yet. There seems decent tread depth over most of the width. I'm not one to go right to the legal limit but the tyres are silly money.

    I'd be very grateful for any thoughts. (It's just the two rears - I've taken a few images to try and give sufficient detail.)

















    Last edited by David_D; 20th February 2018 at 20:00.

  2. #2
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    There isn't much meat left on the bone there buddy.
    Goodyear efficient grip performance are what we fun on our cars. Look at the wear indicators. These are the raised tabs that are in the main grooves of the tyre.

  3. #3
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    The inside edges will go first.
    Personally, I'd replace them now. If you want to get every last penny out of them, no more than 500 miles.
    Don't bother with alignment. They'll wear on the inside edge regardless.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave O'Sullivan View Post
    The inside edges will go first.
    Personally, I'd replace them now. If you want to get every last penny out of them, no more than 500 miles.
    Don't bother with alignment. They'll wear on the inside edge regardless.
    Quote Originally Posted by D4RK1 View Post
    There isn't much meat left on the bone there buddy.
    Goodyear efficient grip performance are what we fun on our cars. Look at the wear indicators. These are the raised tabs that are in the main grooves of the tyre.

    Thanks chaps, that's extremely helpful. They are Run Flats which increases the cost, of course. I've always gone with the original spec Bridgestone Potenza but whether there's a better option ....

    Dave, your comments about inside edge wear are consistent with what I was told at the first place. The place today denied it! Maybe need to go back to the first place.

  5. #5
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    personally I would ditch the run flats. Very noisy, heavy and expensive to run. Less fuel economy also. I guess you don't have a spare wheel? I'd look into buying a space saver spare wheel if that's the case. Then run tyres of your choice.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by D4RK1 View Post
    personally I would ditch the run flats. Very noisy, heavy and expensive to run. Less fuel economy also. I guess you don't have a spare wheel? I'd look into buying a space saver spare wheel if that's the case. Then run tyres of your choice.
    Thanks. I've seen people say that before. (No spare, as you say.) Is it as simple as changing the tyres or is the suspension, etc., set up specially for Run Flats?

  7. #7
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    No special requirements. Just swap the tyres over.

  8. #8
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    Thanks all.

    Mr Google brings up a lot of sites where inner tyre wear is mentioned.

    Must have been fed BS by the tyre place today - presumably to sell their £75 alignment "service". I'll probably (against my better judgement) go to the BMW dealer and ask them!

  9. #9
    Grand Master JasonM's Avatar
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    I have a ongoing problem with my VW CC, the rear tyres wear unevenly and the fitters describe it as ‘stepping’ and they see it a lot, Googling the issue seems it’s quite common, not too much of an issue apparently but the road noise is annoying.
    Cheers..
    Jase

  10. #10
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    My old 3 series used to tramline badly when the runflats started to wear down.


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  11. #11
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    I would have thought 75 for alignment is crazy. Especially if done when buying tyres


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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodder View Post
    I would have thought 75 for alignment is crazy. Especially if done when buying tyres
    Thanks. That's my problem. I always like to feel I'm well informed but I know nothing about stuff like this. Having had a company car for years meant it was never an issue.

  13. #13
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    I’ll chip in against run flats. Noisy and more expensive. And useless if you have the AA or the equivalent and a spare wheel.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonM View Post
    I have a ongoing problem with my VW CC, the rear tyres wear unevenly and the fitters describe it as ‘stepping’ and they see it a lot, Googling the issue seems it’s quite common, not too much of an issue apparently but the road noise is annoying.
    High mileage on FWD cars presents this fault. It does seem more prevalent on the Passat chassis. Rotate your tyres to negate it as best you can.

  15. #15
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    whats nuts is 4 wheel alignment from a BMW dealership is £179.99

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    Quote Originally Posted by D4RK1 View Post
    There isn't much meat left on the bone there buddy.
    Goodyear efficient grip performance are what we fun on our cars. Look at the wear indicators. These are the raised tabs that are in the main grooves of the tyre.
    Me too. about £60 a corner on my one series

  17. #17
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    If you want to stick to RFTs and personally I would on a non M BMW, I wouldn't put RE050A1s on it again, there are much better options these days. The newer Bridgesone offering the S001 is much more compliant and better still is the Driveguard which is reckoned to ride just as well as a non RFT and is much cheaper than old school RFTs too. Only downside is that it isn't a supersports design but that is hardly an issue.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by stuie-t View Post
    My old 3 series used to tramline badly when the runflats started to wear down.
    I had run flats on a one series and suffered the same, I think they were the same as the Bridgestone's above.

    Had a 3 series with normal tyres and no spare, just an electric pump and a bottle of bmw tyre sealant.

    I've only had slow punctures with nails and never needed to use a spare. Hopefully I'll never need to.

    Currently got run flats on an X1 which will be swapped for regular tyres in due course.

  19. #19
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    I’ve always swapped out run flats for standard tyres. Just carry a repair foam in case of emergency or be prepared to wait roadside for a mobile tyre fitter if you suffer a puncture. But I feel it’s worth it for the better ride, more progressive handling, better value and better range of tyres available. BM’s are often quite cambered so will always wear on the inside edge first. The pic’s seem to show reasonable wear but I’d generally replace at 3mm average to give better aquaplaning resistance and wet braking. So in that case worth replacing now.


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  20. #20
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    Thanks everyone- some very interesting and useful comments.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Thanks everyone- some very interesting and useful comments.

  21. #21
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    Interesting that when ordering a BMW 2 series with the 2 litre engine you get run flats but if you opt for the 3 litre engine you get conventional tyres. No idea why but there must be a valid reason.

  22. #22
    Do not get run flats, ever. First thing I will always take off a car and throw away.

    Personally I would always want my alignment and general geo spot on but if you're not noticing any adverse steering/balance characteristics then you should be fine.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave O'Sullivan View Post
    High mileage on FWD cars presents this fault. It does seem more prevalent on the Passat chassis. Rotate your tyres to negate it as best you can.
    Thanks Dave, I meant to do that after my last tyre change but left it too long now.
    Cheers..
    Jase

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Complex View Post
    Do not get run flats, ever. First thing I will always take off a car and throw away.

    Personally I would always want my alignment and general geo spot on but if you're not noticing any adverse steering/balance characteristics then you should be fine.
    And have you driven on Driveguards, S001s or another Gen 3 RFT or are you trotting out 10 year old wisdom which was perfectly valid then and not so much now? Being killed on the hard shoulder is a real risk factor with non RFTs so should be considered amongst the other factors too.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Padders View Post
    Being killed on the hard shoulder is a real risk factor with non RFTs so should be considered amongst the other factors too.
    Indeed. Hence why I mentioned the AA or similar in an earlier post.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Padders View Post
    And have you driven on Driveguards, S001s or another Gen 3 RFT or are you trotting out 10 year old wisdom which was perfectly valid then and not so much now? Being killed on the hard shoulder is a real risk factor with non RFTs so should be considered amongst the other factors too.
    MOE's are the best of the bunch now. Cheaper too. No idea why!

  27. #27
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    Many cars nowadays have no spare wheel even where RFTs aren’t fitted. Personally I wouldn’t want to be stood at the side of the road waiting in place of the RFT. Tyre weld is ok when you’ve a slow puncture but anything worse than that and you’re stuck....and I see it all the time.
    BMW are set up from the factory with pissed up geo. They say its optimal for handling at the expense of tyre wear.
    £75 is a fair price for front and rear toe(and maybe even camber)
    Never been sold on the Driveguard.
    I’d personally not change them yet unless they feel ‘off’ but they’ll need an eye keeping on them and relying on any mileage figure is completely pointless.
    Last edited by anz3001; 21st February 2018 at 20:28.

  28. #28
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    I wouldn’t let anyone near that car with alignment equipment from what I see in those photos, if the tyres have got this far and worn fairly evenly across with the exception of the inside edges then there ain’t a lot wrong with it.

    The risk of ‘fixing’ it is that your next set of tyres won’t benefit from the adjustment and won’t last as well as this last set.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daffy View Post
    I wouldn’t let anyone near that car with alignment equipment from what I see in those photos, if the tyres have got this far and worn fairly evenly across with the exception of the inside edges then there ain’t a lot wrong with it.

    The risk of ‘fixing’ it is that your next set of tyres won’t benefit from the adjustment and won’t last as well as this last set.

    Thanks for that. I'm naturally very cynical about things like this. Certainly plenty to suggest it's a BMW "feature" which tyre place #2 basically denied.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by anz3001 View Post
    I’d personally not change them yet unless they feel ‘off’ but they’ll need an eye keeping on them and relying on any mileage figure is completely pointless.
    Thanks. With my very limited knowledge of tyre legality, I did think they looked OK for now. Obviously some of the responses, which I am sure are from more knowledgeable folks than me, thought they did. I wouldn't want to go right down to the legal limit.

  31. #31
    Master Neilw3030's Avatar
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    Those tyres are worn on the inside shoulders, common on rears. A good four wheel alignment will optimise toe, camber and castor and often makes quite a difference to the way it drives. Rear alignment is never set up properly from build. Also looking at those pics I would maybe go up a couple of psi pressure ass the shoulders are worn lower than the centre.
    £75 for a full alignment is pretty fair, especially when the top kit costs around £10k to buy and as already mentioned the dealer charges much more.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neilw3030 View Post
    Those tyres are worn on the inside shoulders, common on rears. A good four wheel alignment will optimise toe, camber and castor and often makes quite a difference to the way it drives. Rear alignment is never set up properly from build. Also looking at those pics I would maybe go up a couple of psi pressure ass the shoulders are worn lower than the centre.
    £75 for a full alignment is pretty fair, especially when the top kit costs around £10k to buy and as already mentioned the dealer charges much more.
    Thanks for that.

    I absolutely don't mind paying to keep my car safe and good to drive. My concern is whether I trust the place that dismissed the BMW wear point out of hand apparently in order to sell alignment.

  33. #33
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    To be fair, all of the modern wheel alignment kit shows exactly what the tolerances are and will give a print out before and after. In a lot of cases it’s a sales aid, green good, red bad.....but it also has the benefit of making most adjustments foolproof. It’s a sad fact that the vast majority of people using the equipment have no idea what they’re actually doing beyond lining up the marks on a screen. Most of the ‘fast fit’ sector are targeted on wheel alignment unit sales too.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by David_D View Post
    Thanks. With my very limited knowledge of tyre legality, I did think they looked OK for now. Obviously some of the responses, which I am sure are from more knowledgeable folks than me, thought they did. I wouldn't want to go right down to the legal limit.
    If you want to stick to 3mm(where the trade recommends replacement) stick a 20p coin in the main tread grooves, if you can see any of the border of the coin then it’s below 3mm.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by anz3001 View Post
    Most of the ‘fast fit’ sector are targeted on wheel alignment unit sales too.
    Suspect you hit the nail on the head there! Con the unsuspecting punter. Not very nice but the way of the world these days.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by anz3001 View Post
    If you want to stick to 3mm(where the trade recommends replacement) stick a 20p coin in the main tread grooves, if you can see any of the border of the coin then it’s below 3mm.
    Without measuring, I thought the deepest parts of the tread looked well above that but the concern was whether there was adequate depth across the width. Is the legal requirement 3/4 of the width? And then specifically if the excessive inside wear was an overriding problem!

  37. #37
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    Personally I would forget about the legalities.
    We’re in winter and it’s a wet one. Your car is a RWD. The thread of your tyres are designed to evacuate the water between your tyre and the road and avoid aquaplaning. Where your tyre is worn is where it makes the strongest contact with the tarmac. Ergo, you are taking chances and risking loss of adherence for less than 500 miles.
    500 miles, 500 miles I hear you sing say
    Really, be thankful nothing happened yet, don’t touch the alignment and get some new tyres asap. Crossclimate + are probably the best if they exist in your size.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  38. #38
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Have you checked the depth of tread with a depth gauge. (about 4 quid on ebay!)

    They look pretty low in the pictures and in the winter with possibly heavy rain about? Really can't see the point in putting off changing them.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by David_D View Post
    Without measuring, I thought the deepest parts of the tread looked well above that but the concern was whether there was adequate depth across the width. Is the legal requirement 3/4 of the width? And then specifically if the excessive inside wear was an overriding problem!
    1.6mm across the central 3/4 is the legal minimum. Edges can be bald as long as no ply or cord exposed.
    3mm is where most of the trade advise changing due to disproportionate stopping distances beyond 3mm. Michelin are the only company I’m aware of that have disagreed with this advice.
    What type of driving do you do? Motorway/Dual carriageways are where you stand the greatest chance of aquaplanning so if you spend a lot of time on those types of roads and at the national speed limit then I’d be inclined to change as a preventative measure. If it was just around town, low speed stuff I’d probably push them further.
    Don’t think everyone is out to con you but some certainly are.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by anz3001 View Post
    3mm is where most of the trade advise changing due to disproportionate stopping distances beyond 3mm. Michelin are the only company I’m aware of that have disagreed with this advice.
    What type of driving do you do? Motorway/Dual carriageways are where you stand the greatest chance of aquaplanning so if you spend a lot of time on those types of roads and at the national speed limit then I’d be inclined to change as a preventative measure. If it was just around town, low speed stuff I’d probably push them further.
    Thanks. I spend quite a bit of time going to and fro over the tops on the M62 and the drainage is frankly a disgrace, As I said, there is no way that I would risk safety for another couple of mm use and I'm getting them changed today; I was just interested to know how mine looked legally. The other question was whether there is an alignment issue. I suspect not but I'll maybe get a check done to be safe. Purely coincidentally, the local BMW dealer has an offer to carry out the check for £30 so I'll probably get them to do it. (Not that I like putting cash their way; their attitude stinks. But that's another story.)



    Quote Originally Posted by anz3001 View Post
    Don’t think everyone is out to con you but some certainly are.
    The trick is knowing who is and who isn't though!

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    Have you checked the depth of tread with a depth gauge. (about 4 quid on ebay!)

    They look pretty low in the pictures and in the winter with possibly heavy rain about? Really can't see the point in putting off changing them.
    Thanks. Got them ordered on Wednesday and getting fitted today.

  42. #42
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    If it is any help at all, the RE050A's on my E92 3 series were much more worn on the inner edges, like nearly down to the canvas at 20K miles even the the tyres were otherwise legal. I think it is common as noted above that BMW set a lot of negative camber, particularly at the rear in order to tame some of the inevitable consequences of RWD. If you drive the twisties a lot your tyre wear will likely be even, if mostly motorway miles and/or lots of speed cushions you will burn off the inner edges first. You could in theory have a re-align to set less rear camber but in doing so will induce more oversteer which may not be a good consequence. I wouldn't bother.

    What did you order in the end?
    Last edited by Padders; 22nd February 2018 at 14:41.

  43. #43
    Can I just say I *would* get alignment done, I get mine checked at least every year. Get your tyres changed and then take it to an independent, preferably one with a Hunter machine. Getting alignment right can make a huge difference to ha doing, steering, etc..

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Padders View Post
    If it is any help at all, the RE050A's on my E92 3 series were much more worn on the inner edges, like nearly down to the canvas at 20K miles even the the tyres were otherwise legal. I think it is common as noted above that BMW set a lot of negative camber, particularly at the rear in order to tame some of the inevitable consequences of RWD. If you drive the twisties a lot your tyre wear will likely be even, if mostly motorway miles and/or lots of speed cushions you will burn off the inner edges first. You could in theory have a re-align to set less rear camber but in doing so will induce more oversteer which may not be a good consequence. I wouldn't bother.

    What did you order in the end?
    Thanks.

    Stuck with the ones you mention - Bridgestone Potenza run flats. £210 a tyre! Think I could have got them a bit cheaper but didn't have time to sort local alternative.

    Most of my mileage is motorway and very little on "interesting" roads so I guess inner shoulder wear will happen again! From the various comments and Google searches, this certainly looks "normal".

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by tertius View Post
    Can I just say I *would* get alignment done, I get mine checked at least every year. Get your tyres changed and then take it to an independent, preferably one with a Hunter machine. Getting alignment right can make a huge difference to ha doing, steering, etc..
    Thanks.

    As I mentioned below, my local BMW dealer has an offer to check alignment for £30 - with any work found necessary capped at £100.

    How much do you pay? Do you use a main dealer or independent? Do you find alignment is out in the space of a year?

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by David_D View Post
    Thanks.

    As I mentioned below, my local BMW dealer has an offer to check alignment for £30 - with any work found necessary capped at £100.

    How much do you pay? Do you use a main dealer or independent? Do you find alignment is out in the space of a year?
    Glad you changed them, very sensible.

    Alignment can be altered by something as simple as a pothole or contact with a kerb. It's worth getting checked if there are any signs of uneven tyre wear. It used to be the case that FWD cars would be set to toe out slightly and RWD cars set to toe in slightly, but things may have changed, and there were different settings for different models.
    With the modern alignment systems they can usually check toe in/out, camber and castor angles and alignment front to rear. Worth asking around with local garages etc as often there is a specialist in the area who comes recommended. The trade guys normally know who is doing a good job.




  47. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by David_D View Post
    Thanks.

    As I mentioned below, my local BMW dealer has an offer to check alignment for £30 - with any work found necessary capped at £100.

    How much do you pay? Do you use a main dealer or independent? Do you find alignment is out in the space of a year?
    That sounds pretty fair, I’d normally expect the check to be free and then to pay according to how much work is needed. But normally I seem to end up paying around £100.

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