Reply With QuoteWhere is this info from?
Looks like Rolex are going the Patek way for the stainless sports range. Rumours have been circulating that people will only be able to buy a maximum of two professional range watches per year and this will be controlled directly by Rolex themselves. The move is clearly to stop the grey dealers getting on lists everywhere and hoovering up stock as well as stopping speculators doing the same thing and selling to the grey dealers.
So if you are on a waiting list, your watch may come sooner than you think.
Where is this info from?
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Picked up off Rolex Forums in the US, but a UK guy was told this by an AD and was denied a Ceramic White Daytona by Rolex themselves. Then another guy chirped up saying that Rolex called him directly to confirm his details recently.
Wow, if this is the case will be good for the small guys but can you imagine being one of the bigger spenders with an AD and being told no. I’m sure they’ll find a way. Interesting.
Good, the same old faces get watch after watch on here. If this cuts their access and allows a few watches to go to genuine people on the list who won't flip them then I am in full support.
I get totally pissed off with the Basel shit every year, they announce a new watch and it is easy to name those on here who will get theirs first and most are instantly sold on for profit. This is how they maintain their high business with (their?) ADs.
Any controls to end the premium market get my vote.
I don't believe it, but two watches a year seems pretty reasonable.
TRF has a few in the know guys and a million imbiciles.
Well said that manOriginally Posted by Wallasey Runner
Nah they will just ask another family member or someone to buy it on their behalf. Hermes does this for their Kelly and Birkin bags where an individual has yearly quotas on what they are allowed to buy, usually also 2 birkins per year max if you can even get one in the first place. This is a great move by rolex but one which will still not really affect the secondary market lol
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Err.. this will actually increase the market for grey dealers and will not significantly prevent them from obtaining supply. It is self-defeating.
It's actually very, very stupid. So stupid that I cannot believe it is true.
The bigger spender will just spend their money at a grey dealer. Grey dealers will do better than before. The grey dealer will have no problems buying by using people who buy on behalf of the grey: Staff, friends of staff, family of staff, or people simply employed on-off to do the job, etc. It works the same way with successful horse racing tipsters: They cannot get a bet on anywhere in their own name so they employ unknown names to do it for them.
Last edited by markrlondon; 10th February 2018 at 05:05.
So exactly how would rolex prevent the transaction from happening?
Ditto
I bought two last year and waiting and waiting on a certain one
As a grey dealer I can assure you that we are not on any lists anywhere and do not hoover up stocks.
Restricting supply only encourages individuals to sell on pieces as they will attract a premium so in an ideal world Rolex should make sure that there’s a plenty supply in stores to prevent this.
In an ideal world I would not want to sell a watch over RRP but lack of supply forces the price to this level.
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RIAC
From Rolex's point of view, if they want to stop customers flipping for more than RRP then the answer is simple. Increase RRP by 40% or increase supply. I don't think they can increase supply because they would have done it by now. When there is a high demand for a product, what company won't increase supply if they can? In a free market economy you have three factors. Demand, supply, price.
The conclusion is that Rolex have been doing everyone a favour by keeping prices well below the value dictated by market forces.
I would agree that the RRP is too low when compared with supply vs demand. Personally however, I would have to question whether or not these watches offer objectively good value at such high prices. Are we experiencing a Rolex (especially vintage) bubble?
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For sure.
ADs break rules every day of the week. After all, where do all the unworn rolexes in the windows of second hand dealers come from?
I don't see this making any difference whatsoever
Seems that Rolex and, possibly their AD’s, have been breaking rules for years with some of the “strong arm” business practices. Checking the sold out prices are without discount is price fixing however you want to spin it.
Now possibly restricting supply to individuals is also a little shady.
Having said that it obviously works well for their brand and customers alike given the cast iron residual values.
“Would Sir like this Rolex for £6k or the Omega equivalent for £5k?” “Well if Sir decides to sell the Rolex in four years time, Sir will probably get all of his money back, possibly making a small profit if he is fortunate. On the other hand Sir will be lucky to get £2.5k for the Omega based on the current trend”
Interesting, but I can’t see them actually doing it. There are individuals with more disposable income who would purchase a lot of watches in the year, not for the purposes of flipping. This would just any them and force them to go elsewhere. Having just put my name down for a Patek 5712 I was told that HQ keeps a record of your purchases to build your rating and chances of being offered the more limited production pieces. So if you spend a lot of money with them and don’t flip any, or at least flip them back to the supplying AD you shouldn’t be penalised.
In the end it comes down to just one thing....supply and demand. If Rolex make enough watches, problem solved. There isn't any other way in the long term.
Rolex have been checking names on Daytona lists for a while now!
That's a new one that I have not heard before.
Agreed, the difficulty is getting the balance right. Ideally they’ll want to supply one less watch than the market demands.
Go the other way and they’ll end up losing that strong residual value strength which possibly exists in the TT ranges already.
Been like that for a while!
But this is the first I’ve heard from anyone being turned down, but then the Rolex AD I dealt with in the past wouldn’t allow my name to go down for a second SS Daytona.
I just don’t see how Rolex could control who purchases at all. There are so many variables to monitor, and how would it work if a dealer said to a customer, we have to check your details with Rolex first, how long would it take ? Would it be a worldwide data base ? What personal details would they want and hold, data protection rules vary by country.
This would depend on all parties involved to be honest, where. Money is involved it’s never going to happen.
Lolz.
This only seems to confirm what WoS told me a while back that their head office requested each local AD waiting list, as the would be doing the allocations.
Perhaps Rolex have implemented some control over their distribution to Arum, who have agreed to comply?
Each branch of the Arum group do supply H/O with the top 10 names (both dials operate on the same list) these lists are vetted by management and Rolex, be it at a National or regional level or via the Rolex rep etc I don’t know the finer details.
And I believe Fraser Hart operate a similar system.
But surely - if these folk are only getting the 'in demand' models from the AD, then those self-same models would have sold in a heartbeat to any buyer.
So - no apparent benefit to the dealer.
I would suggest a more plausible situation - those buyers are simply "mates" with someone in the AD, or even - courted a relationship whereby each individual benefited.
Totally agree. I did get to hear before Christmas how a premium Rolex arriving at an AD near to me chose who to sell it to and it certainly wasn't by picking the chap at the top of the waiting list.
As with other walks of life, a case of who you know rather than what you know and definitely let's work together on this one and share the spoils goes on. Even a funny handshake at the nearest Victorian built emporium helps ease the waiting time.
I wish!
You don’t have to sell at above list, that is solely your choice.
Be realistic , they are trading a commodity at market price.
Oh no did I just defend Blowers !! The horror !
Like the people who offer them to is don’t have to demand such a premium
But they
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RIAC
Spend a fortune on PM rolexes to buildup relationship with an AD to get hands on more desired watches ? Need a new hobby ASAP
I was privy to a London AD who had 5 of the sought after SS models hoarded in the safe and all ended up going along with a premium purchase (gold/Plat)
That’s two things 😊
True that. If they were buying at market price and selling at max list price, all would be good. There might even be a Nobel prize in it for you for making the suggestion.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
You should go into business with such brilliantly well thought out ideas.
Fraser Hart told me the SD43 and Daytona lists are managed by head office so this makes sense. LV etc managed in store by the manager, only the super desirable pieces need to go via head office for approval.
Thought so! Well hadn't heard about it on the SD but was sure it was the case with the Daytona.
I know they get Daytona’s come in with a name already assigned so guess the store submits the list and then HO ok it.
Given your location you might deal with the FH a friend of mine works at.
If it’s the one your friend works at tell him to get me a SD43 and better service! Enquired for a SD43 and was told as I’ve only had a BLNR from them I had no chance and if anyone put my name down they were just being polite and my name wouldn’t have actually gone on the list! If I wanted one I would need to build up my account with them or buy a gold watch at the same time lol
Simple answer to all this.
If you want to go on the list for a watch you pay the full asking price in advance. That’ll sort the men from the boys! Lists would be somewhat shorter and the folks would have to make a genuine committment to buy.......but if these watches really are such a ‘must have’ people would accept this and tie their money into the deal several months before receiving the watch. Like it or lump it.
Alternatively, allocate the watches by lottery, if you’re on the list you’re names in the hat and you just have to hope you get lucky.
Perhaps both ideas could be combined.....pay full price for the privilege of having your name in the hat!
It’s a her and I’ve only ever purchased one watch from them!
As you said all the good stuff is covered by HO or given the ‘OK’ along with a premium purchase! Nothing much is dealt with at store level so in most situations there hands are tied!
But that’s no excuse on being spoke to like that!
TBH this type of behaviour is getting widespread with Rolex AD’s, it’s put me off the brand.
The job of an AD is to sell
A watch for a RRP. Why they feel the need to busy themselves worrying about who has them is beyond me.
A. What can they do apart from sell it and B. I can’t recall them ever calling a customer to say ‘sorry to hear you lost a few quid in that watch we sold you!’
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RIAC
How is it price fixing? It would only be price fixing if all watches sales were controlled, not just one brand. Their products, as long as it is legal, they can sell them to customers at prices they choose
No one forces anyone to buy a Rolex, so I don’t see how any of behaviours are strong arm tactics. You buy in to their ecosystem or you don’t, simple
I am reading this correctly?
Some chains / stores centrally manage lists to see if you are worthy enough to be allowed to buy a watch?
If that’s their attitude they can get stuffed, who the hell do they think they are judging anyone? Let alone on the single criteria of spending power.
So shallow, a sale is a sale does it really matter who the buyer is?
If a “good” customer has their nose put out of joint, they’re not an adult but a spoilt brat imo
If they can qualify sales by adding other purchases, or get some form of 'personal gratuity' from some "regulars" - then you can see that it might matter to them.
Only going to get worse with the reduction of independant AD’s!
What makes me laugh is I get much better service from the AP lounge and made to feel like my business is appreciated far more then Rolex/Rolex AD’s ever did yet in AP terms I’m a small fish!
It’s been illegal to enforce a retail price for years. You can provide a “Suggested Retail Price” but you cannot force the selling dealer to stick to it, that’s up to the retailer and the customer to agree upon.
Rolex asking to see what the sell out price is fixing the prices by threatening the retailer with loss of franchise, although it would be dressed up in other reasons.
Their AD’s buy into it as it’s such a profitable brand for them. It only needs one or two to break rank though for it to weaken.
In the long run it’s better for the consumer With the stronger residual values
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