Reply With QuoteDepends what you've done.
We've all been there (almost weekly if you live in London!) - you're sat at a red light and you hear the sirens behind you.
An emergency vehicle is fast approaching weaving it's way through the other traffic to get to the front of the queue and beyond.
It eventually get's to you. Do you "run the red light" and edge forward over the white line to get out of their way or do you sit tight and wait for a green light?
The Highway code suggests you sit tight.
The Police say (askthe.police.uk) you would have to be able to prove you were getting out of the way of an emergency vehicle in order to avoid a possible fine. And even then, it's not a given.
Your head, heart and common decency say: "Get the hell out of the way!"
What do you do?
Depends what you've done.
I would always get out of the way and run the red light, as someone who had a cardiac arrest and was dead for 11 minutes, I would sincerely hope that someone would not hinder the ambulance getting to me.
Morally get out of the way, but legally if you run the light and get Gatso’d or cause an accident you’ll be liable. My wife used to work for a specialist insurer covering all ‘blue light’ claims.
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As long as it's safe to do so you get out of the way.
I have had to do this at least three times and never had any problems.
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Legally you should stay where you are. Ambulance drivers are trained to deal with this stuff so know what to do BUT I’d still get out of the way and take my chances.
I always try to inch out of the way. I haven't ever run the red light completely (ie driven on). Sirens always get the pulse racing a bit!
I check for cameras and if none then I may go through. Generally though I sit tight and definitely sit tight if a camera - I don't care how how much the the driver waves me on.
The standard procedure here is to make enough room for the ambulance to get past and then tailgate it for as long as possible to get through the traffic.
Someones life may depend on it. I'd move every time.
If you are really more worried about getting a fine/points rather than just getting out the way of an emergency vehicle, get a dash cam which would provide
you with proof.
move ahead across the junction to one side preventing /alerting the perpendicular moving traffic, with your hazards on
gives the blue lighter a better chance.
This does happen, also on roundabouts, but clearly only if its safe to do.
done it 3 or 4 times over the years and gets you an appreciative honk on the horn
Last edited by GOAT; 8th February 2018 at 13:05.
Get a camera wired in to back up the situation!
With my front and rear dash cams.... I’d get out of the way...
Could be fine/points/loss of livelihood.Originally Posted by TBKBABAB
Like you, I'd do whatever to move (as safely as possible). The reported attitude of the Police absolutely stinks frankly. I think I saw once that you should only go through a red light if instructed to do so by a police officer in uniform!
Unfortunately the authorities don't give a shite if you're acting in good faith and possibly saving a life and will still prosecute if they have evidence, specifically camera evidence, even if the emergency vehicle is also in the shot.
[QUOTE=yumma;4660001]Morally get out of the way, but legally if you run the light and get Gatso’d or cause an accident you’ll be liable. My wife used to work for a specialist insurer covering all ‘blue light’ claims.
I'm with you on this....also, I've noticed a few times at traffic lights, the emergency vehicle switching the sirens off....which is in line with something I read about them trying not to pressurise drivers into going thru red lights...
I'd carefully move if it was an ambulance as I have done before. I'm not going to sit there saying it's against the law ffs!
This thread has made me feel a bit better - a couple of months ago I was sat at lights, right at the front of a huge queue as a fire engine barrelled down the road behind me with cars driving onto verges etc. At this point I also realised the fog in front of me was actually smoke. I carefully moved forward trying to avoid crossing a red light whilst giving him enough room to pass - and was met with the full siren and horn cacophony for my efforts. In reality I don’t think I slowed their progress for more than a few seconds, but my cynical seasoned driver brain clicked in. The road was dotted with cameras as was the gantry above the lights - I feel certain I’d have been caught on a camera, and still won’t be surprised if I get a letter from the dvla or whoever for crossing a few inches over. I’ll have to wait and see.
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Get out of the way and assuming they’re going the right way follow them…. Can nearly halve my commute time
You would have got the letter by now if they were going to send you one, I wouldn't worry.
Similar happened to me yesterday, however, we'd already been sat at the light for sometime & the Ambulance was around 15 cars back slowly making its way through.
I'm sat ready to react to either drive away once green or slide through the red ONLY if needed.
Idiot behind me is flashing lights, beeping horn trying to intimidate me to move before needed.
Lights turn green, I pull away & the ambulance turns right at the junction behind me.
lol
Car drivers often leave common sense behind and freeze when the adrenaline kicks in. Like stopping just before a LH bend instead of negotiating it to make passing easier.
What right do you have as a civilian to stop / block other traffic in this manner?
Not criticising, as it is a selfless act, but wonder what the consequences could be if this action lead to a RTC
Last edited by nunya; 8th February 2018 at 16:03.
Emergency vehicles often go past my office and the through the junction outside (one just went past) and I've seen people go through a red light to clear a route for ambulances for them to sit there and wait until the lights go green before moving. Which seems to be self-defeating to me. They can't have someone onboard who has to get to hospital but what if the next ambulance those drivers see does have someone for whom that minute could be vital?
Fortunately all the fire engines and some of the ambulances will go on the wrong side of the road but I suppose in one out of every four instances there'll be someone incapable of getting out the way even though it's clear where they want to go. Lots of people freeze too.
I did once see someone at a pedestrian crossing make an ambulance do an emergency halt because the green man started flashing and they just walked across the road. They'd seen the ambulance coming too.
"A man of little significance"
You poor jaded soul.
^^^^^^
Ar*e h*le thing to do, but the pedestrian does have right of way. The emergency services do not have right of way at red lights, they are allowed to proceed with caution (on their own liability)
Oddly (unless the law has changed) a Post Office van can legally run a red light without consequence, as they bear the royal seal and are 'officially on the Queen's business'
God knows
It was a fire engine driver who taught me how to do it
As for "rights", what about the heart attack victim in the back (see above)
It's not like I'd do it for my own gratification
It's funny, I often see Royal Mail vans running the red light!
"A man of little significance"
Should have lost that right on privatisation.
Exactly it's a good, kind thing to do, I was just wondering what would happen if a person's good intentions somehow went pear shaped, that's all
I was just thinking that this is the definition of karma!
"A man of little significance"
Have you got a link to legislation to back this up? Because to the best of my knowledge this is a myth.
I believe they have to picture you going in and out of the crossing.
The question re RM vans was asked of the Department of Transport, who responded thus . . .
"Traffic signals are prescribed for use by local traffic authorities in The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002 (TSRGD). Regulation 10 makes it an offence to disobey a red signal, bringing in Section 36 of the Road Traffic Act 1988.
Regulation 36 [as amended] gives the meanings of signals, including red, and also sets out which organisations are exempt under certain circumstances. For completeness it’s fire and rescue, ambulance, bomb and explosive disposal, national blood service, police, Serious Organised Crime Agency (SOCA) and special forces. The exemption only applies when they’re on an emergency call.
Royal Mail vans are not listed in Regulation 36. The question about whether they don’t have to stop for police is one for the Ministry of Justice and you may wish to contact them on this issue."
As an ex EFAD driver, all we ever wanted to do was proceed without stopping, a fully laden appliance can't go that fast anyway, but you lose a lot of time crawling and stop/starting.
F.T.F.A.
The one and only thing to do is get out of the way. Do this safely and there will not be court in the land who would judge against you.
Funnily enough Management and I were discussing this recently, a co-worker had to attend the "red light course" and one of the other attendees produced their photos of the front wheels over the line after pulling forward to let an ambulance through, as they were offered the course they took it rather than risk the court.
The response from the course tutor was that the only time you cross the line is if the police explicitly direct you to, any other reason, including making way for an ambulance is a prosecutable offence.
Saying that, if I had an ambulance trying to get through, I'd move out of the way too, knowing I could well be done for it. Someone's life could be at stake.
I’ve had to sit at red lights at the front of the queue with blue lights on. Everyone thinks you’re nuts. Coastguard landrovers, fully liveried with blue lights etc can’t go over reds, as above.
A colleague did and was flashed. HMCG said “your problem” and wouldn’t even write a letter to confirm he was on an emergency call. He went to court, explained himself without HMCG backing and was excused. Then he left the service.
It easier and much less embarrassing to turn the blues off 50 yards from the junction than sit there waiting for the lights to change.
As long as there’s photographic or other evidence that was the case.
In a similar vein… last week I was at the lights when a Police car started moving through the middle of the lanes with its lights on. It was very tight and the cars behind me where bouncing themselves up the kerb to get out of the way – I obviously wanted to get out of the way too but not at the expense of damaging my alloys or the front splitter on my car. The kerb was pretty tall and my car is low with fairly big (unmarked) alloys and low profile tyres and I just didn’t want to risk any damage so I moved into the kerb as close as I could and sat tight. The copper got stuck behind me and I could see him shouting “get out of the way” in my mirror but I didn’t budge. I felt a bit bad about it but I’m 100% sure plod wouldn’t be paying me for a repair.
If it was an Ambulance would you pay a bill in the £100’s to get out of the way?
Just to confirm a lot of what has already been said in this thread (link):
Exemptions from Road Signs
Police, fire and ambulance can exceed the speed limit if it would hinder progress. This includes ambulance rapid response units operated under the NHS.
Police, fire, ambulance, bomb disposal and blood service can drive through a red traffic light and disregard a keep left sign if it would hinder progress and can be done so without endangering anyone. A rule of thumb is that a red traffic light should be considered as a give way sign.
Police, fire and ambulance can cross double white lines down the middle of the road and stop on zig-zag lines at the side of the road.
Sometimes emergency vehicles may need to disobey other signs and regulations. This will depend on the professional judgment of the driver and they could be liable for prosecution if the act was not proportionate to the circumstances.
Road signs can be disregarded by anyone if directed to do so by a police constable in uniform. This gives police drivers the opportunity to give themselves permission to disregard a road sign.
See also Sharing Roads...as it covers the topic of this thread.
Last edited by PickleB; 8th February 2018 at 17:56.
That is the sensible and logical response, the trouble is the law can be an ass. my view on this is stated above and I would encourage anyway to spend a few minutes checking out pepipoo and reading the examples of where logic and sensibility just doesn't come in to play when motoring convictions are concerned. Not red light related, but I have personally been through the mill with 'the system', and whilst after much effort, worry, and some money for advice I have come out with an unscathed license, it has given me first hand experience of how the system can work against you. For sure, you can argue the toss and seek and present evidence but trust me that burden will be on you, and even then, when presented in clear view, it can still count for jack.
Do what you like of course, but if you get flashed, points, fined, banned, god forbid injur or kill someone whilst crossing a red light, be prepared for the consequences because the 'official' advice is above.
The thing I'd say is the emergency services shouldn't be making or encouraging a driver to carry out a dangerous/ unlawful act, & going through a red light is. If they were so sure it was the right thing to make a driver do, the Police might be more inclined to say it was ok rather than state you'll get a fine etc.
For the record I have gotten out of the way in the past, but the more I read on the subject the less inclined I would be to do it now & certainly some Motoring organisations (RAC being one) encourage members to abide by the law & wait for the traffic lights to change.
Move out of the way if it is safe to do so, the same as an emergency vehicle. If they are involved in an accident running a red light, it is their fault same as you.
As regards cameras at red lights, the emergency vehicle will also set it off going through the red light.
When the footage is viewed it will show why you went through and you will not be prosecuted.
With respect, anyone taking this advice would be very foolish. "Someone on the internet said it would be ok your honour."
Well with respect having dealt with the issue in 4 different police forces, I speak from experience. Including investigating emergency vehicles involved in accidents having gone through red lights.
I am sure a driver moving to allow an emergency vehicle through is not going to drive straight into the junction. All it takes is to slowly move a few feet and let the emergency vehicle do the rest. Now is that foolish.
As a Trumpton EFAD driver down in Exeter for the past 20 odd years, policy has changed hugely in regards to red traffic lights.
As has been stated earlier in the thread, a Fire and Rescue vehicle on blue lights is only exempt to keep left signs and speed limits.... but only when you pose no risk to other road users. Red lights are always treated as a 'give way' sign.
Until about 8 years ago, we still barrelled up behind drivers with the full blues and twos thing going on and basically bullied the traffic in front to breach a red light until we could get through.
Our policy now states that on approaching a red light with no clear way through, all audible warnings and front facing blues should be turned off until the lights turn to green, then blues and twos back on and down to Asda for donuts we go !
This is only the policy for Devon and Somerset and may be different from other Brigades, but as it comes from a national framework, all FRS's are advised to comply.
I work in a hospital and I see some of the traumas and cardiacs coming into A&E resus. Occasionally we have to assist in resus.
I see any emergency vehicle with blue lights flashing, I'm getting out of the way, I'll worry about the legalities later. The only way I'm not moving is if it's seriously unsafe to do so.
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