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Thread: DSG gearbox

  1. #1
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    DSG gearbox

    I was driving Mrs T-7's BMW X-5 tonight & shifted across to manual gear change to use engine braking. I soon discovered that the direction you have to move the lever is the opposite way round to that on my Skoda Kodiaq. On the Skoda it's forward to change up & backwards to change down. On the BMW it's forward to change down & backwards to change up. I'm surprised that there isn't a universal consensus for manufacturers to adhere to. I mean, they always put the accelerator on the right of the brake, for example. Personally I feel that the Skoda has the intuitively correct system

  2. #2
    Master Alex L's Avatar
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    Sequential gearboxes are always away for down and towards you for up. For some reason DSG gearboxes are back to front.

  3. #3
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    I think the BMW way is derived from how sequential gearboxes work in Motorsport?

    I think my VW is the same as your Skoda (as you’d expect), but can’t say for sure without looking as I tend to use the steering wheel paddles anyway if I’m shifting gears myself.

  4. #4
    Master -Ally-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tooks View Post
    use the steering wheel paddles anyway if I’m shifting gears myself.
    Same here, much easier.

  5. #5
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    I just do and get used to what the gearbox indicates. I'm hardly a racing driver, so as long as it works then it works, even if seemingly counter intuitive. My old Skodas had reverse in the same place as 1st. Makes little sense, but nothing wrong with it for a daily driver.

  6. #6
    Master vagabond's Avatar
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    The BMW system is the "right" way round imho - at least I find it intuitive......

  7. #7
    Master Tifa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Ally- View Post
    Same here, much easier.
    I had paddles on a Scirocco.
    They were a pain in the arse.
    Always in the wrong position (o'clock) when you really needed them.
    Found the lever far easier.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by trident-7 View Post
    I was driving Mrs T-7's BMW X-5 tonight & shifted across to manual gear change to use engine braking. I soon discovered that the direction you have to move the lever is the opposite way round to that on my Skoda Kodiaq. On the Skoda it's forward to change up & backwards to change down. On the BMW it's forward to change down & backwards to change up. I'm surprised that there isn't a universal consensus for manufacturers to adhere to. I mean, they always put the accelerator on the right of the brake, for example. Personally I feel that the Skoda has the intuitively correct system
    I hate the engine braking on VW group cars. On my Skoda Superb, if I’m going down a hill and touch the brakes the gearbox will change down and sometimes the revs will rise to about 3.5K. I think that’s completely unnecessary on a (diesel) car that is running out of puff by 4K anyway.
    I’d far rather replace my brake pads a bit more often than replace my gearbox.

  9. #9
    I thought that most BMWs had slush boxes with manual override, M cars and VW Sports Had twin clutch, but no road boxes are sequential

  10. #10
    Grand Master snowman's Avatar
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    Yeah, I'd imagine the X5 is a proper automatic, not a double clutch thimmayjig.

    Can't say I'm a huge fan of either - My Golf estate has a DSG box that people rave about, but I'd much prefer a manual still...

    I've driven a friend's X3 a bit recently and the gearbox is worse than the Golf's... (In fact, the only thing I like about the X3 is the seats!)

    M

  11. #11
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    We have a fabia vrs with dsg and it's poor. If they had only done it with a 6 SPD manual..

  12. #12
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    For me, any manual auto should be changing down a gear on forward push, when braking & aligned to forces of deceleration. VAG as pioneers (maybe) have had it wrong from the start & it has never felt correct to me.


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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidL View Post
    We have a fabia vrs with dsg and it's poor. If they had only done it with a 6 SPD manual..
    Interesting to read this as I take delivery of a Leon ST FR in March and I agonised over going DSG or manual and eventually went for a manual - test drove the DSG a fair bit and had a GTD Golf Estate as a courtesy car for 24 hours the other day which also was a DSG box and I found that in sport mode especially it didn't match to the GTDl particularly well. I felt it would go too far into the revs before shifting which made it very 'lumpy' and often found myself wanting to 'short shift' (at least compared to where the auto would have shifted) using the paddles.

    Feeling quite happy with my manual choice.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashtennisguru View Post
    Interesting to read this as I take delivery of a Leon ST FR in March and I agonised over going DSG or manual and eventually went for a manual - test drove the DSG a fair bit and had a GTD Golf Estate as a courtesy car for 24 hours the other day which also was a DSG box and I found that in sport mode especially it didn't match to the GTDl particularly well. I felt it would go too far into the revs before shifting which made it very 'lumpy' and often found myself wanting to 'short shift' (at least compared to where the auto would have shifted) using the paddles.

    Feeling quite happy with my manual choice.
    Especially on a cold engine, I’d felt it held revs far too long, but I’m not a VAG engineer.

    Manual is still more fun, the correct choice while it remains an option IMHO


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    Quote Originally Posted by hafle View Post
    I just do and get used to what the gearbox indicates. I'm hardly a racing driver, so as long as it works then it works, even if seemingly counter intuitive. My old Skodas had reverse in the same place as 1st. Makes little sense, but nothing wrong with it for a daily driver.
    The irritation for me is that I drive both cars & they are the opposite way round to each other.

  16. #16
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    Using the X5 box in manual mode is not worth the effort.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  17. #17
    Master Skier's Avatar
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    In my Audi A4 Avant 3.0 TDI Quattro S-Line (I don't think I forgot anything there!) the DSG gearbox is excellent. I have had the engine ECU remapped but the gearbox ECU is standard. With smaller engines with less torque (and this is far more important for day-to-day driveability than bhp) I suspect manuals feel more sporty but pitch that against a larger engine with DSG in S mode or when using the paddle shift and there's no comparison. I personally love all the low-end torque of a big diesel and would have a 5.0 TDI if it was available and this from a man who, in his late twenties to late thirties, had several TVRs, Ferraris and an Aston Martin.
    Last edited by Skier; 24th January 2018 at 11:35.

  18. #18
    Master Alex L's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    I thought that most BMWs had slush boxes with manual override, M cars and VW Sports Had twin clutch, but no road boxes are sequential
    BMW use the ZF Auto box which is a fantastic gearbox. Audi among other manufacturers have now ditched the dual clutch in favour of the ZF auto in their new RS4.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaytip View Post
    I hate the engine braking on VW group cars. On my Skoda Superb, if I’m going down a hill and touch the brakes the gearbox will change down and sometimes the revs will rise to about 3.5K. I think that’s completely unnecessary on a (diesel) car that is running out of puff by 4K anyway.
    I’d far rather replace my brake pads a bit more often than replace my gearbox.
    Have you got “coasting” turned on?

    On my Touareg this option disengaged engine from gearbox when you took your foot off the throttle so you could coast for ages, but as soon as you touched the brakes it connected them again to get engine braking. It didn’t make for a smooth drive but did save fuel.



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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mj2k View Post
    For me, any manual auto should be changing down a gear on forward push, when braking & aligned to forces of deceleration. VAG as pioneers (maybe) have had it wrong from the start & it has never felt correct to me.


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    What about when you want to knock it down a cog to accelerate?

  21. #21
    Grand Master snowman's Avatar
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    I must admit I've never used the lever to manually change gear (in normal driving, before someone gets picky, I know I use it to go to Reverse or from P to something or vice versa), it just seems it's the wrong way to interact with a DSG box.

    The car is a lease, if it was mine I'd get some of those extended metal paddles you see on eBay as I sometimes feel the plastic ones are a bit small.

    To be honest, though, I rarely get the chance to change gear manually at speed - Sometimes I just drive it in manual for a change, but everyone drives like Miss Daisy's in the back and it's all a bit pointless in a Golf R...

    M

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    Using the X5 box in manual mode is not worth the effort.
    Exactly the same on my E350. Completely pointless.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowman View Post
    I must admit I've never used the lever to manually change gear (in normal driving, before someone gets picky, I know I use it to go to Reverse or from P to something or vice versa), it just seems it's the wrong way to interact with a DSG box.

    The car is a lease, if it was mine I'd get some of those extended metal paddles you see on eBay as I sometimes feel the plastic ones are a bit small.

    To be honest, though, I rarely get the chance to change gear manually at speed - Sometimes I just drive it in manual for a change, but everyone drives like Miss Daisy's in the back and it's all a bit pointless in a Golf R...

    M
    I've got a Golf R, too, and always drive it in manual, using the paddles. Only time I use the lever (apart from parking etc) is when pulling away from lights whilst turning left or right at a crossroads - when the steering wheel gets turned 180˚ and the paddles are in the wrong place - then a quick tap on the lever suffices.

  24. #24
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    DSG

    My previous ford Galaxy had the powershift semi auto box.

    My present Alhambra is the DSG version with the up shift away from you.

    Still getting used to it with a mix of auto, manual with paddles and gear lever.
    I have been caught out and cursed it a few times

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by trident-7 View Post
    What about when you want to knock it down a cog to accelerate?
    Always plan ahead & in the correct gear for the circumstance lol.

    In your scenario, car would be in a neutral force position, neither accelerating or decelerating, so wouldn’t be moving the lever against or with any forces.


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  26. #26
    I'm happy with the DSG 'box in my Golf GTI. Yes, if using the lever to shift "manually" it's counter-intuitive, but that's what the paddles are for.

    It gives the car a Jekyll and Hyde personality, which I like - leave it in Drive and it's a six-speed Automatic, flick the lever into Sport and you can have a six-speed paddle shift sequential and life is a whole lot more interesting.
    Although no trees were harmed during the creation of this post, a large number of electrons were greatly inconvenienced.

  27. #27
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    Slightly off topic, our 3 year old golf (bought second hand from main dealer) on two occasions in the month after we bought it had a completely flat battery, so flat even the central locking wouldn’t work. It is used for several hundred miles a week so isn’t due to lack of use. After much investigation the vw dealer found the DSG software was out of date and the version on our car had a known issue that caused intermittent battery drain!


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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by fraggle42 View Post
    Have you got “coasting” turned on?

    On my Touareg this option disengaged engine from gearbox when you took your foot off the throttle so you could coast for ages, but as soon as you touched the brakes it connected them again to get engine braking. It didn’t make for a smooth drive but did save fuel.



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    I do drive it in Eco, yes. I’ll pop it into normal tomorrow and see if it makes a difference.

  29. #29
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    we have a gti with manual 6speed box and a Passat with DSG.
    I have never changed gear in the Passat with the gear lever. I've used the paddles for maybe 10 shifts in 18 months.

    You don't have a dog and bark yourself

  30. #30
    Grand Master Glamdring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by D4RK1 View Post
    we have a gti with manual 6speed box and a Passat with DSG.
    I have never changed gear in the Passat with the gear lever. I've used the paddles for maybe 10 shifts in 18 months.

    You don't have a dog and bark yourself
    Exactly.

  31. #31
    I find all these gearbox paddle discussions a bit confusing. I’ve had one auto in all my years of driving - a Volvo V70 - and I left it to its own devices in drive, that was it. My wife just doesn’t like automatics, so all our cars since have been manuals (and now we live In a rural area we don’t do much nose to tail traffic jamming that suits me fine). Every time a read a review of DSG boxes it’s a review saying how dreadful they are and links to class actions all over the world from disgruntled owners. Are they ok now or still a disaster waiting to happen?


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  32. #32
    Master aldfort's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobDad View Post
    I find all these gearbox paddle discussions a bit confusing. I’ve had one auto in all my years of driving - a Volvo V70 - and I left it to its own devices in drive, that was it. My wife just doesn’t like automatics, so all our cars since have been manuals (and now we live In a rural area we don’t do much nose to tail traffic jamming that suits me fine). Every time a read a review of DSG boxes it’s a review saying how dreadful they are and links to class actions all over the world from disgruntled owners. Are they ok now or still a disaster waiting to happen?


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    Most of them are now fine. Sometimes people confuse Haldex faults with DSG faults as the two units both need to talk to the cars brain. Similarly neither unit is maintenance free.
    My current car has an auto box of the DSG type which will change gear either with the paddles or by moving the shifter into the "dynamic position" and using it to change gear.
    I can think of two places where I use the paddle, both on country lanes, and only then to save the momentary strain as the box works out it suddenly needs to drop two gears.

  33. #33
    Grand Master Glamdring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobDad View Post
    I find all these gearbox paddle discussions a bit confusing. I’ve had one auto in all my years of driving - a Volvo V70 - and I left it to its own devices in drive, that was it. My wife just doesn’t like automatics, so all our cars since have been manuals (and now we live In a rural area we don’t do much nose to tail traffic jamming that suits me fine). Every time a read a review of DSG boxes it’s a review saying how dreadful they are and links to class actions all over the world from disgruntled owners. Are they ok now or still a disaster waiting to happen?


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    I've almost always had autos. Torque converter boxes are best. Faultless but a bit heavy on fuel. I've had two DSG boxes, one in a 2012 Ford Grand C-Max and currently in my VW. Fuel consumption is much better, acceleration is better but you can be caught out occasionally in the wrong gear and it has to jump to sort itself out, which can be momentarily disconcerting. Otherwise, having a 7-speed box is cool. There is no noticeable sensation when the gear changes, and you only hear the engine note change if you accelerate hard.

  34. #34
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    Mitsubishi INVECS III

    Push to change up, pull to change down

  35. #35
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    My Jeep Grand Cherokee is Left, Right when in manual mode.

    Left to change down Right to change up.

  36. #36
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    My current car is only my second auto box ever. It is 9 speed and silky smooth, but can be a little hesitant when setting off from stationary.
    When I want a little fun I set it to sport mode, engaging the paddles, and set the terrain select to sand. Changes the driving experience, it even sounds like a sporty car.

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  37. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by nunya View Post
    Mitsubishi INVECS III

    Push to change up, pull to change down
    That's the wrong way round. As in, it's counter-intuitive.
    Although no trees were harmed during the creation of this post, a large number of electrons were greatly inconvenienced.

  38. #38
    Master reggie747's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robsmck View Post
    My current car is only my second auto box ever. It is 9 speed and silky smooth, but can be a little hesitant when setting off from stationary.
    When I want a little fun I set it to sport mode, engaging the paddles, and set the terrain select to sand. Changes the driving experience, it even sounds like a sporty car.

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    What car is that then?

  39. #39
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    9 speed box makes me think new Merc.

  40. #40
    Master Pitch3110's Avatar
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    We have the latest 7 speed DSG in Mrs P’s Golf R and it is an absolute gem with very different degrees of nice in N E and R.

    The auto in my 2016 Q7 has needed resetting twice since new. Bit of a chore but pretty simple.

  41. #41
    Master nibby's Avatar
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    I have a 640d with a ZF box I hardly use the manual the box is that good.

  42. #42
    Master Alex L's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reggie747 View Post
    What car is that then?
    Guessing a Range Rover

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex L View Post
    Guessing a Range Rover
    Sadly not that flash, a humble disco sport. Good guess tho..

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  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backward point View Post
    That's the wrong way round. As in, it's counter-intuitive.
    I don't really think there is a right or wrong way, just get used to the lay out.

    Thinking about it if driving a 5 speed manual, and you drop a cog to overtake, you change down from fifth to fourth, moving the stick down / towards you. Maybe based on that principle??

    Who knows, it works for me and works well

  45. #45
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    I think proper racing sequential boxes are setup to shift the way they do based on physics.

    Braking hard for a corner, it’s easier to push the stick forwards to change down rather than pull back against the G.

    Same for accelerating hard, pulling back with the G is easier/more intuitive than pushing.

    No standard road car has such a setup though, not least mine, so I just get used to whatever I’m driving quick enough.

  46. #46
    After the initial excitement of having paddles and and up and down selector I just left it in auto. Having 7 gears makes changing a never ending process and unless you're on open roads with little in the way of corners the paddles are a pain to keep your hands on.

    And don't get me started about the lever being set up for left hand drive.

    Cracking box though, very smooth.

  47. #47
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    First automatic gearbox was a horse and carriage. If you wanted it to go slower, you pull back.

    BMW are wrong.

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