Reply With QuoteUse normal Paypal and add the fees?
Member on here contacts me about a watch I have up on SC. Asks several questions about the watch, we agree on a price and payment method (I said I was happy with a bank transfer, or PayPal f&f).
Last night, I receive the funds sent via PayPal, but not friends and family. It's also from an account with a different name than the member has provided me.
I've immediately issued a refund, contact the member who is saying he doesn't want to use the f&f service.
Every watch I've bought and sold here has been via bank transfer or PayPal f&f.
It all seems a bit fishy to me, opinions?
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Use normal Paypal and add the fees?
Any h+v feedback for said member?
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Sell the buyer.
Not quite the same. It’s not the amount, it’s the PayPal refund thing.Originally Posted by S.L
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
This.
however it's your watch so sell to who you want in the way you want!
If it is a scammer, they can use normal PP to force a chargeback. I personally would insist on a BT or f&f payment though I have heard it said that it may be possible for a f&f payment to be reversed under certain circumstances if funded through a credit card. Only a bank transfer is totally safe.
Last edited by Padders; 21st January 2018 at 12:10.
He clearly wants another level of protection that PayPal offers, completely unnecessary on here in my opinion, but each to their own.
Tell him you will accept PayPal +4% and it must come from his account, because you have your own level of protection to consider.
The guy is clearly not suited to this environment and if 'they' are reading this lighten up and trust people, no one is going to rip you off for the price of a watch.
I suppose it depends how much you need to sell the watch. I wouldn't worry too much about paypal, just get him to add the fees and only send to the address given on the paypal payment using RMSD. it can be reversed but paypal will cover you, depends is you want the risk of hassle or not
Yep.
It's a hard one, the whole point of the SC is a community that we can trust.
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In what way will PayPal cover the OP in the event of a fraudulent chargeback?
I too would quite like to know who the buyer is. He might just be ultra cautious or...
Last edited by Padders; 21st January 2018 at 12:17.
Been a member for a good while, but there's no h&v feedback. I've said that I'll accept the agreed payment method, but the buyer doesn't seem happy with this. My gut is telling there's something odd.
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You’ve been a member for 18 months and use SC a lot... As was said earlier it’s your watch, you sell it to who you want, at the price you want and with the payment method you’re comfortable with.
Buyers are free to pass or offer a variation of the above. You’re free to accept, or not. What do you expect a thread like this one will do? Push you one way or the other?
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
paypal seller protection programme
11.1 What is PayPal seller protection?
If you are the recipient of a payment made by a customer ("Payment Recipient"), we may reimburse you an amount for Claims, Chargebacks, or Reversals made against you based on the following reasons:
A Chargeback or Reversal was issued against you for the reason of an “Unauthorised Payment” (except for any “Unauthorised Payment” initiated in an environment not hosted by PayPal); or
A Chargeback or Claim was issued against you for the reason of “Not Received”,
where PayPal receives from you proof that the item was posted or delivered in accordance with the requirements set forth below, subject to the further provisions of this section 11 (including, without limitation, the Eligibility Requirements at section 11.6)
Last edited by dl_griff; 21st January 2018 at 13:08.
In that case I'd probably trust my instincts and pass.
I'm surprised the buyer hasn't already dropped-out; discussing the sale details with him is one thing, publicly implying he is some sort of crook, quite another. Why would he want to deal with you in such circumstances?
Best if you both look elsewhere, because you are obviously unhappy.
I've not had any issues with PayPal refunds but the very possibility of it being used by those wishing to take undue advantage means I wouldn't accept it for anything significant, £250+. That said it all depends on the seller's feedback, willingness to provide copy ID by email or internet presence such as a bona fide business or LinkedIn profile etc.
The feedback function on here is great but everyone has to start somewhere and if I wasn't happy doing BT to a seller I'd be happy to explain why or walk away.
No, just gauging wether my thinking reflects general forum thinking or not. It's a situation I've not experienced before, all deals in here seem to start with a level of trust between members.
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As said above, if I was your putative buyer I would have politely suggested you put your watch back where it belonged, Pulp Fiction style.
Opening this thread... The mind boggles.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Fair enough. Thanks for the input.
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If someone acts differently from how they agreed, that's the moment to abandon the transaction. The pros and cons of modes of payment are irrelevant here: the quality of someone's word is everything.
I can't tell you what to do but I've had a couple of pp transactions in my time.
Most recent was a transaction that was short - buyer had pressed wrong button and sent via regular pp rather than ppg. Quick pm and the balance arrived in minutes = complete non issue and I sent a screen grab to show shortfall and cleared total to show it was all there and we were good to go.
Another regular ppg transaction from a forum friend comes from his partners account so shows a completely different name, that doesn't bother me either.
Sometimes anomalies that are perfectly innocent do happen.
But saying that, it's your watch and your instinct.
That last part sounds dodgy. Is the buyer asking for the watch to be posted somewhere other than the address on the PP payment? If so, pass the details on to Eddie as it may be a hacked account. Especially if they've been around for a while without ever using SC then suddenly starts doing so in a suspicious manner. Do they have recent posts on the forum? Do they look similar to much older posts? (spelling, grammar, subjects of interest/knowledge, etc).
May well be a dead account with a weak password, not the person they claim to be.
It's a shame but if your not happy best to avoid, just imagine the fallout after posting this thread & something goes wrong after the sale.
Trust works both ways. How long has the buyer been a member on here and how many posts do they have? If it is 60 days and 50 posts then I would be slightly worried otherwise if they want to pay PP goods and services then just add on the 4%.
Personally I’d go with gut feeling and that could alter depending on the value £100 ish I wouldn’t be to concerned 1000’s I’d be cautious. Only you have all the info so trust your gut.
I think your gut is the most important factor.
This ^
Nothing would surprise me anymore.
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I’m guessing you want to use f&f so the buyer has less protection from PayPal, the buyer likewise wants to use PayPal to get that protection, you both want protection, you can’t hold that against the buyer when you are acting the same.
PayPal f&f is not that risk free anyway, you might as well use normal PayPal.
Either trust the the buyer from here or don’t sell.
The buyer may be using his partners Pp account, and he or she insists on no f&f for extra protection. As long as he wants it sent to the verified address on the account, add the 4%, and sell with as much confidence as its possible to with a stranger.
If I was a buyer I would take a day out of my life and drive to the sellers house, take a look at the watch and then pay by BT on the spot. Job done and everything is above board. I just treat it as a day out.
If the seller lives too far away, I would just give it a miss.
My actions would have been the same as the OP's. Be cautious and go with your instincts.
I use f&f or BT as that seems to be the custom on here. If I didn't trust a seller, I wouldn't approach them in the first place.
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It’s all a matter of comfort. Do what you feel comfortable with. There are members on here I wouldn’t hesitate to lend a watch to, or when selling post before payment - but by the same token there are a lot of new/newer members I haven’t dealt with yet.
It's just a matter of time...
The way I understand it when you pay by f&f you have no cover if the item isn’t delivered or if the seller is a scammer??
I’m on a lot of forums and TZ is the only place that has adopted the f&f ethos as everywhere else is BT or normal PayPal and the buyer pays the fees ??
If he’s paid by normal and your not happy then move on to the next buyer?!!
BT for me has always been the best plus each member I’ve dealt with is still on my list so when(it will happen) I buy another watch off them it’s already set up!!
I personally use f&f with all good members on here as I like the trust element that you have to have in a community as that’s the spirit behind these communities but it has to be for well established members!
Chris
Normal PayPal affords the buyer a massive amount of protection in private sales. I’ve read cases where the buyer just claims the box was empty and the money is recouped straight from the sellers bank account. Think up to 180 days. I’d stay clear.
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Even with all the ID in the world, his passport , phone conversations, it would boil down to your word against the purchaser (if they tried a scam). There are enough trustworthy people on this site, with H&V to back it up, no need to take the risk. Unless as you say it’s a value you can write off.
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That's an idea!
Agreed but background detail and a phone chat helps. That said I've only ever had one dodgy seller and he was a new member on another site so lesson learned there.
Slightly off topic, I now video the packaging and unpackaging of all watches, never had an issue since but figure it would help with a RMSD claim or similar if damage suffered in transit etc. Know that's not incontrovertible evidence but it's better than not having it.
And erroniously using F&F to sell something removes whatever crappy protection that a seller has under regular PayPal.
What help is video evidence? Video watch packing then send an empty duplicate.
Not incontrovertible as I said but better than not doing it. My packaging technique is pretty random/unique but then I could watch the video back to replicate that step by step couldn't I?
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If it's a forum regular I don't see a problem but equally if it was a forum regular they wouldn't have a problem with PP F&F.
But perhaps a forum regular would have a problem buying from a relative newbie who insists on Paypal F&F thus negating any buyer protection. The only thing about all this I find a tad odd is that the potential buyer has not shown his or her face on this thread.
Last edited by SimonK; 21st January 2018 at 22:21.
Unless the receiver videos the opening, your random technique will be largely lost in the unpacking!
Only the buyer and yourself can work this through, perhaps descretly in a private online space or over the phone.
How much risk are each side willing to take and how does that change relative to the value of the transaction? I had understood the intent for sales corner was to help watch lovers to buy and sell at discount, by cutting out the middle man or the store; a riskier proposition than buying from a shop but the community self regulates via the H&V.
From your description something feels off, but i would want to listen to their side before deciding. Best take this offline with them directly.
As others have said, go with your gut I’m sure the watch will sell either way mate.
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Suprised you haven't heard from the buyer after the refund. Or have you?
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