Reply With Quote16570 here, black face, with GMT wiggle so 3185
Just been taking images of my Rolex Explorer ll 16570, Black face, and collecting reference information, so I thought that I would post the following info for any interested parties
3186 Movement
I have box and papers and the booklet says that the movement is a 3186 with a Parachrome Bleu balance spring
It has RolexRolexRolex engraved on the rehaut
and there is no "wiggle" if I jump the hour hand backwards and forwards .. interesting Utuble vid showing this test
looking for info on the net, there is an interesting article here
http://luxurytyme.com/en/rolex-relat...-rolex-models/
and another here
https://www.minus4plus6.com/paracromblu16710.php
Does anyone know how many Explorer all's were made with the 3186 movement
16570 here, black face, with GMT wiggle so 3185
Quite rare, the 3186 calibre version. One of my watch team gets excited about them, but I cannot. No visible or practical difference from a 3185 calibre model should mean no premium in interest or value, but I will probably find myself again swept along unwillingly by today's market in which many are desperate for an excuse to find additional value.
Where once there was a glut of 16570s in the market (I had 13 in stock at one point), they seem to be steadily stronger now.
Haywood
Looking at the price of modern used Rolex Divers and similar - I reckon the 16570 of any flavour is now great value at £2k+ for a daily user to £3.5k+ for a mint B & P modelOriginally Posted by Haywood_Milton
£2k for a daily wearer would indeed be great value!
It's just a matter of time...
I don't agree. They're relatively rare in the 16710, but fairly plentiful in the Explorer 2. The fact that forum dealers have yet to successfully pump the market for them despite consistent effort says there are plenty floating around.
I really did not start the thread to ague valuations
I started the thread to provide information on the watch model ........ which is one of the main purposes of this forum
It's not all about money which you seem to want to drag it down to
The 16710 is twice the price of the Explorer
Hardly. Did I say anything about price? I said they're not as rare as some people with a monetary interest would like everyone to believe. Don't get snippy.
Perhaps that's your issue. Either way, I don't care.
It would be interesting if you could support your statement with facts - how many of each movement were produced?
"Don't get snippy" - not me Sir, I have yet to sell a watch
Where can I find a 16570 for 2k??
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I’m actually thinking of buying a polar explorer, don’t know whether the 216570 is better than the 16570?
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I said a daily wearer for £2k+ - that's a plus sign!
first 2 second search on here reveals this at £2.5k advertised
http://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.ph...ht=Rolex+16570
I have seen them go on Ebay for £2,250
Actually that’s not what you said.
“I reckon the 16570 of any flavour is now great value at £2k+ for a daily user to £3.5k+ for a mint B & P model” is what you said
Please don’t part quote yourself in a bid to be appear astute.
As you said don’t get snippy with me sir.
Ps the explorer 2 you posted is indeed a steal and I shall be keeping my eyes peeled on sales corner from now on.
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I said the following as you quote
"“I reckon the 16570 of any flavour is now great value at £2k+ for a daily user................................"
isn't that the same?
what's the difference?
"As you said don’t get snippy with me sir. " - I didn't say that - I replied to that comment, as it was addressed to me
Last edited by BillN; 18th January 2018 at 18:24.
BillN, I’m confused at your last post. First you say in not so many word that for 2k + for a daily user is good value and I asked where I can find one for 2k +? Then I get all these counterproductive arguments from you. I think you are debating semantics and for that reason i will graciously bow out of this thread.
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I think the main thrust is that the EXPII is a well priced model as a used watch currently. I’ve always preferred them to the GMTII (with the exception of a nice previous model “Master” 16750).
The watch shown as sold went in under 10 mins judging by the thread, and possibly a lot quicker. Regardless, they are a good buy, and come up on here from time to time - I wore one almost every day as an only watch for around 5 years.
It's just a matter of time...
I could buy a ceramic Daytona for £2k+.
Unfortunately the + is about £12k!
It's just a matter of time...
Well this thread went south quickly!
To answer the op I haven't seen much information about this. You could try a post over on the Rolex forum? Someone there might know.
I agree. What an utterly pointless argument with added sniping, let's keep some perspective gents, don't you think ?
No difference between 3186 and 3185 in my opinion it’s irrelevant because nearly all Rolex movements are largely bulletproof, I mean when has the robustness of a movement ever been a issue with rolex. Rolex Collectors care most about aesthetic evolution of the model. However, the price difference is a reality with dealers. For buy to keep I will pick the cheaper 3185 all else being equal but perhaps the 3186 gives some a warm fuzzy feeling.
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But getting geeky there is a difference for say omega planet ocean 2500 c and d movements
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2k+ means over 2k.
Could be 2.2 or 2.6.
I don't think BillN said anything worth picking to death.
I thought my part in this thread was done, if you don’t think it was worth picking to death why do you feel the need to comment?
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I will take some pictures tomorrow of the differences, it is mostly for the jump hour complication.
The external cosmetic difference is this
3186 has RolexRolexRolex engraved on the rehaut
I don't think that's correct given the way to tell which one you have without taking the back off, is to check for the GMT wiggle. Perhaps those with the rehaut engraving only have the 3186, but not all those with the 3186 have the rehaut engraving?
I posted to highlight Bill being fair in his assessment.
You can do whatever you like with your part, as I'm sure you do with chaffing regularity.
I’m fairly confident most people in this thread, myself included couldn’t give a rats ass what your personal opinion on bills assessment was. We were all past it, it was done and I had moved on. You quoting me was pointless and to be honest quite nasty. That says a lot about you tbh.
Oh and you seem to be playing with my part very well indeed, so carry on......now now no talking with your mouth full..... there’s a good lad.
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Just one minor inaccuracy observed there.
It's probably best that this thread be closed ......... it's become a pointless subject
I cannot figure out how the simple statement can be mis-understound
"Looking at the price of modern used Rolex Divers and similar - I reckon the 16570 of any flavour is now great value at £2k+ for a daily user to £3.5k+ for a mint B & P model"
Can I close the thread being the OP .........is there an action somewhere in the menu?
Last edited by BillN; 19th January 2018 at 01:01.
Several, but one is funny.
I think the issue was the implication that they can be bought for £2k. If you’d said £2.5k no one would have commented. I know you said £2k+ but the implication is that they can be bought at that price upwards. It’s just nit picking really.
FWIW, I completely agree with you that they are terrific value for money, particularly the black dial as the white dial seems more popular so fetch a little more.
Thanks for that ......... Forums are strange places
I have a small collection of 10 watches, which I have bought over the years, I am now well into retirement and have started to photograph these, (photography is my hobby), and collect as much information about each as I can.
I thought that it would be useful to post any useful information that I found on here, (I have done this once before with my 5513 which went on to several pages and brought out lots of useful information on the watch).
I have never sold a watch and my posting(s) was not for the purpose of promoting or selling any watch.
I have several EBay searches running for several of my watch makes, to look at comparisons etc., and gain information.
I never intended this thread to really discuss pricing although I brought this up with my comment on good value and before I made this I had seen sales on here between £2.5k and £5.5k. From memory I had also seen low value sales on EBay in the past at £2.25k , albeit on a Nato and a Black face model.
I just thought my comment on value added to the thread and I never expected it to be the main focus point........... I can only apologise if my postings have caused confusion ......... a lesson learnt on my part
That's properly brightened up my morning. Heh.
HI OP, you say the booklet says that you have a 3186, I'm interested to know more about this, what booklet do you mean?
With regard to numbers of 3186 movement 16570s, only Rolex will have an answer to that, no one other than Rolex will know!
Maybe a photo will get this thread back on track? Here's my V-serial polar Exp2. It has the engraved rehaut and no wiggle on the GMT hand so I guess it has the 3186 movement, but I don't know for sure.
Just sold my polar last night for £3.5 with B&P they are a fantastic piece and a great daily wearer- I think Im going to miss it
I had one, an M serial from around 2008 now moved on to another contributor. From memory They fitted 3186s to the Explorers for about 2 years until the 42mm model came in so they are comparatively rare but not massively so.
Last edited by Padders; 19th January 2018 at 12:08.
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Quite a good article here.
..
Last edited by gbn13; 19th January 2018 at 12:23. Reason: Article already posted by OP!
Bezel protector still on watch on this image
Last edited by BillN; 19th January 2018 at 12:58.
Serial numbers
another bit of info I have just seen
"Starting in February, 2010, it is being reported that the letter designation on the serial number is disappearing. The new serial number has letters interspersed in the number."
https://www.minus4plus6.com/numbers.php
My watch is from 2010, being purchased in December - the serial number is LetterNumberNumberLetterNumberNumberNumberNumber
has anyone any more info on 16570 serial numbers 2010 and after?
What possible more info could there be... ? They're randomized, as you've quoted.
Another tell on the 3186 is the gearing is different for the hour hand. One turn on the crown will move the hour hand several steps further than the same turn on the 3185. Unless you're very familiar with the movements though you'd need a 3185 side by side for comparison.
I prefer the 3185 it has a more refined construction imho, with fewer parts.
Last edited by 744ER; 19th January 2018 at 13:46.
More info
I was hoping to be able to establish the year from the new serial number range ....... so are you saying that this is no longer possible
are the numbers "randomised"?
Last edited by BillN; 19th January 2018 at 13:56.
Just to confuse matters more, I remember a dealer telling me that the engraved rehaut 16570 was 904L steel while my earlier one was 316L. I’m not sure exactly when the changeover happened, or if this is accurate info - no doubt someone here can advise.
He had a clear preference for the earlier 316L ones and thought I was better off keeping mine, regardless of the movement. However both steels have their plus points, and their fans and detractors. The dealer thought that the earlier ones picked up less scratches, though he could have meant that they were easier to refinish. However the later steel is more corrosion resistant (only really an issue if sea water finds its way into the case back threads, so more crucial for an actively used sub than an EII). It also has higher nickel content, which can be an issue for a minority who are allergic to it. The finish also looks slightly different. I’m not going to pick sides as it’s opening a Pandora’s box, and people get quite passionate about these things - probably because they are sure the one they happen to own is clearly the best! But if the dealer is correct about this, it may be another factor to consider.
That's correct, there's no way to date a random serial number Rolex. Only Rolex know. But at least with yours there's a limited time window from introduction of the random serial numbers to the 5 digit Exp2 being discontinued (I think roughly 2011 to 2012).
[QUOTE=BillN;4636974]
Thanks for posting this, I must have a look at mine when I'm home.
FWIW I think that you having a random serial 16570 is no bad thing
My 16570 was first sold in September 2012 (Gnnnnnn serial) and has - I believe - a 3186 movement and the branded rehaut. These later watches had the "thin frame" dial (according to these links):
http://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.ph...and-tips-pleae
http://translate.google.co.uk/transl...al&prev=search
[IMG][/IMG]
As promised, these are not serviced watches and the 3186 has a broken part visible, but it helps show the differences.
3185:
3186:
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