The problem at Williams, as I explained earlier, is not one of setup. It's a fundamental design flaw. And the days when drivers had to work out the setup in Formula 1 were over a quarter of a century ago, thanks to data logging and simulators.Originally Posted by adrianw
A seat in Formula 1 is the result of a combination of talent, the ability to achieve the 40 "Superlicence qualifying points" and, if necessary, having the money to pay for a seat. Niki Lauda, Fernando Alonso and other World Champions paid for their first drives in Formula 1. And others, who would have easily qualified, such as Andy Wallace and Kelvin Burt, both of whom won the British Formula 3 Championship when it meant something, were never able to make the jump.
It's how it is. The way of the world. And it won't change because people keep banging on about it on the internet.
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It will change, people see F1 as the best drivers in the best cars, if they don't fix this F1 will die,
The reason Kimi is at Fiat is that he is probably the best seat of the pants driver in the last twenty years and he can feedback exactly what the car is doing. He is a massive part of their resurgence, ask any racer
Last edited by adrianw; 26th May 2018 at 13:04.
What a pole lap from Ricciardo! And he followed it up with another lap below 1m 11s, the fastest ever seen around Monaco.
A shame that Max Verstappen clattered the barriers at the swimming pool exit towards the end of FP3, so he'll start at the back as he not only took the front right suspension off but the right rear hit the barrier and damaged the gearbox, and the team weren't able to repair the car in time for Q1.
Vettel shares the front row, Mercedes probably qualified as well as they could have hoped in third and fifth. The main point of interest for tomorrow's race will be the longevity of the Hypersoft tyre, on which the top ten on the grid will start the race. Mercedes experimented with Supersofts in Q2 but were in danger of missing the cut, so the top qualifiers might be forced on to a two-stopper, depending how far the Hypersoft can go on a full fuel load.
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Why do you refer to Ferrari as Fiat?
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Because that is who they are, and because if that they get an unfair advantage in formula one,
In January 2016, Ferrari became a separate investment of Exor, siding with FCA and CNH, after FCA listed 10% of the company on the NYSE in October 2015, and then distributed their remaining 80% stake in Ferrari to FCA shareholders. Ferrari now trades on the NYSE under the ticker symbol "RACE." [8]
You appear to have a habit of confusing your own opinion with fact, and think that bluster adds credibility.
Scuderia Ferrari is funded by their FOM prize money, and by sponsorship from Philip Morris (Marlboro), who then recover a portion of their sponsorship by sub-selling advertising space and sponsor privileges to secondary sponsors, such as UPS, Ray-Ban and Fiat/Alfa Romeo.
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So CNH is Fiat, FCA is Fiat it's all exactly the same people, the share disrribution seems to have gone to Fiat
80% to FCA shareholders does not mean 80% to Fiat. Ferrari is a separate Company, quoted on the New York Stock Exchange.
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Strange comment to make on a thread where the whole point is about "banging on" about all things F1 on the internet.
There are different "grades" of pay driver from those who clearly have talent but need / use financial backing to get into F1 quicker to those who clearly don't have the pure talent to justify getting an F1 seat.
For a once great team like William's to employ 2 inexperienced and inferior drivers just for the money is saddening and in my opinion counter productive and short sighted.
I couldn't agree more, and it's even more baffling when they clearly spent a great deal of money to entice Paddy Lowe into a senior position within the team.
Right now, Williams seem to be very top-heavy on the management side, but they have two drivers who aren't likely to bring home regular points. Would Kubica have been less of a gamble? Would he struggle to complete a race distance at Monaco? Are there too many questions, and not enough answers?
Lance Stroll certainly walked away with the Friday Jenson Button Award this weekend for complaining about a lack of grip, and they seem to be in for a very long and unrewarding season unless they can sort out the rear diffuser, which won't be easy. Monaco is probably their best chance of a result, as the diffuser problem is exposed less than it would be at a faster circuit.
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Worth a read. http://corporate.ferrari.com/sites/f...ual_report.pdf
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Now praying for rain or a safety car to make this race interesting.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Mind numbingly boring, why do they bother, I know it's all the rich folks. There is something wrong when much faster cars find it impossible to overtake, yet other circuits are supposedly not fit for purposes
I enjoyed that race. Whilst on the surface it was straightforward and boring, tactically it was fascinating, particularly with Hamilton getting stressed about his tyres.
Whilst I’m pleased for Daniel, given that he lost his MGUK and was apparently 160 bhp down, it just shows how unsuitable this circuit is for modern F1 as no other car was able to overtake.
This race is inevitably won in qualifying and the race itself is then completely predictable.
This circuit is no longer fit for purpose.
Z-fest. I have to agree with adrian on this one.
While I don’t disagree with you, Max overtook half the grid.
Lewis described the race as poodling about and the most boring race he has ever competed in, Kimi said it was boring, I think Max's progress was stopped when he got to the faster cars
Last edited by adrianw; 27th May 2018 at 17:37.
True but one of those overtakes was via straightlining the chicane (Sainz), I was watching the GP on German TV which has adverts so I think I missed a lot of action, were a number of Max’s overtakes by virtue of staying out longer on more durable tyres rather than actual overtakes?
I found the race entertaining, if not exciting.
For anyone that was really bored...the Indy 500 is live...NOW!
Max failed on his first attempt to overtake Sainz. When he tried to down the left It was Sainz that went straight across the chicane. On the following lap he overtook on the right and made the corner (just !)
For those capable of realising that Monaco is different - it's an attritional race, dominated by tyre management and tactics, Red Bull and Daniel Ricciardo played a blinder, and nursing a wounded car to the finish around the tightest circuit on the calendar was quite an achievement. When he changed tyres, Ricciardo drove his first laps of the weekend on something other than the new Hypersoft, which exceeded expectations by managing almost 20 laps on a full fuel load.
For the last third of the race it was a game of bluff and double-bluff at the front, nobody daring to pit and change their fading Ultrasofts or Valtteri Bottas on Supersofts would have driven through the gap to a podium at worst, and when the VSC was finally triggered it was too late for a tyre stop anyway. All of the first four finishers were struggling at the end, but in Parc Ferme at the finish the tyres on the winning Red Bull looked far less ragged than the others.
Max Verstappen probably managed as good a result as he could from the back of the grid, while the Williams team had a weekend to forget. Again. Charles Leclerc was having a good race until his left front brake disc exploded in a puff of carbon fibre, and it was a shame that he ended Brendon Hartley's race - Pierre Gasly showed that while the Honda might still lack outright power, it's competitive on slower circuits, and more driveable and driver-friendly.
A good result for the Championship, and a good win for Ricciardo and Red Bull. Sebastian Vettel managed to commit a faux-pas on the podium, where etiquette demands that the Monegasque Royal Family are spared a champagne shower, but Princess Charlene didn't seem too bothered.
Canada will see most drivers taking new power unit elements, with some upgrades expected. Given the restriction to three of the major elements for the season, reliability has so far been better than expected. Perhaps we will be spared the multiple grid penalties towards the season end.
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This!
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Hmmm, how many did he actually overtake ON track.
Such a shame he stuffed it into the wall during practice otherwise he might have a) got a podium depending on his qualifying position, b) crashed c) crashed and taken out another driver d) broke down, but ultimately another disappointing GP for Max.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
I think we all realise it's different. It didn't make the race any less boring though.
Some appear to struggle with it.
Monaco won't change, and it won't go away. It continues to attract the kind of spectator that appeals to Liberty, and it will therefore remain on the Formula 1 calendar.
But if you watch a race on a narrow circuit, which starts with the fastest cars at the front, don't be surprised that there isn't much overtaking. Monaco is an occasion, an event in itself, and the wealthy flock to it in their droves.
If we didn't have Monaco, people would complain that there weren't any proper street circuits on the calendar - Singapore and Baku are a succession of 90-degree corners and straights, and as a result are largely characterless. Monaco has character and charisma to spare. The Formula 1 community squeeze themselves and their entourages into the tiny Principality every year, and their sponsors love it.
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“Fit for purpose” .......... please ....
It’s not Airbags, seatbelts or crash helmets wer’re talking about here....... It’s entertainment!
Monaco GP is rooted in tradition and to this day - no-one knows when they turn up for first practice ..... who will ultimately win.
It will be a sad day when the Monaco GP is removed from the calendar.
“Fit for purpose........ “
But that's the whole point, the fastest cars on Sunday afternoon were not at the front,
Would you care to articulate, in your own inimitable way, how you would change Formula 1 then? Drop Monaco from the calendar? Change qualifying?
Ban red cars?
You seem to think that you have all of the answers, so perhaps you would care to share them?
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Unfortunately it wasn't even close to being entertainment today.
I know it'll never happen but this is exactly what I would do. It's an anachronism that rarely produces a decent race.
There is nothing wrong with qualifying, other than the pol sitter should get points.
Yes I would drop Monaco, it about showing off and money, look at all the great tracks that are dropped for safety reasons, this argument is enough on its own.
I'll have a go!
Any power plant you want and a limit of 6 inch tyres.
I whinge about Monaco every year, and understand due to non-racing issues ie Money, it won’t go away.
So I suggest that it stays on the calendar as exactly what it really is, a procession/corporate event.
Just make one change, and that being no points are handed out, because it just isn’t a real race.
Perhaps make it an official test?
Different it may be, but took processional to a new level. Like watching 78 laps behind a safety car
As it seems you have fixated on tradition over and above actual motor racing, excitement and entertainment, why not keep Monaco and put all the drivers inidentical Clios (or similar small car) and let them fight it out over 3 races. Watching the classic Vs the modern F1 races, and watching the new cars line up on the grid the biggest problem seem to be with size of the modern cars Vs the width of the track, so when Coultart talked about "threading a needle" he really meant it.
Better still move the whole circus to a old school traditional circuit with a similar tradition, like the old Nurburgring (all 14 miles of it). If that does suit how about running the race on the current LeMans course. But in both cases allow teams to run 3 cars to bulk up the grid. The modern Le Mans course might be better from a safety perspective but imagine F1 cars going through Tertre Rouge before blasting down the Mulsanne Straight. Bliss.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Who are you trying to kid?
Please remind us what happened when Fiat put their engine in the back of the Sauber...?
Not the usual drama, but I enjoyed the race.
I’ve never been to a F1 race but if I did, it would be Monaco simply because it is an 'occasion'. Yes, it’s virtually impossible to overtake but it is also about strategy, reliability and driver skill but above all it’s about history and for me, it perfectly sums up the glamour of motor racing.
I get the history, but the races are generally far too processional. Wrongly, the most drama is the crashes. Even Hamilton & Vettel said it was boring.
I last really good race I can remember Senna vs Mansell 92 [I think].
Last edited by andy tims; 28th May 2018 at 07:40.
Andy
Wanted - Damasko DC57
Wasn’t that because of feeble tyres
slowing everyone down?
Like most sporting events, isn’t it for the participants first and foremost, then spectators, then TV viewers? As a spectator it’s a brilliant unique experience over three days, and the drivers seem to love it as well.
Aren’t the real problem, characterless, circuits the new ones that Bernie sold out to over the last few years, like Baku?
You mean the Nurburgring which has been teetering on the edge of bankruptcy for at least the last decade, and obviously has the money available to invest in bringing the circuit up to FIA standards? Yes, obviously that would work. The same with Le Mans - good luck in persuading the ACO to bring that up to standard. Besides, they already have two events each year which pack out the grandstands, three if you include the 24-Hour motorcycle enduro, so they don't need a Grand Prix.
Have you considered watching the BTCC instead of Grands Prix? They have some overtaking, although they usually have to crash into each other in order to do it. I'm sure that you would love it.
And as for removing Monaco from the F1 calendar, the teams would never sign a Concorde Agreement which would abandon Monaco, as it's too important to the sponsors. As one of the more enlightened posters has noted, it's an occasion, and you don't watch it expecting to see lots of overtaking. It should delight those who advocate the banning of DRS, because DRS has no effect at Monaco, so it's like Grand Prix racing before 2011. There wasn't much overtaking then, either.
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That was no different really apart from Mansell showboating because he had new tyres. He still couldn’t pass Senna.
Exactly right. Questionable treatment of a country's own citizens was overlooked in favour of a massive hosting fee, and Bernie would gleefully instruct Hermann Tilke to get his ruler out and design a few straights connected by slow corners.
My ideal Formula 1 calendar would revolve around several classic, core races on tracks which the drivers and spectators love (Spa, Monza, Imola, Silverstone (the only airfield circuit left on the calendar), somewhere in the USA, possibly Indianapolis, and Monaco, all of which would have their hosting fees reduced and subsidised by those countries who want a Grand Prix for reasons of international posturing. These countries would have their hosting fee doubled if they have a Presidential Palace.
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I wouldn’t mind seeing the Glen on the calendar.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
I'll never tire of seeing in car footage at Monaco
The race itself it normally forgettable (unless it rains) but it should stay on the calendar due to the history and because it is a completely unique setting and event. It's on my bucket list.
Also it clearly means so much to the drivers to win here and that adds an extra element of interest in the result.
People are suggesting that Baku is boring but I think it’s anything but. So far 2 out of 3 of the races there have been exciting.
Even just réading up highlights was a boring waste of time.
I remain a huge supporter of F1 as the forefront of high tech automobile racing but is does DEARLY need to get back into the rácing groove.
The way it is at the moment, even cyclist racing up a mountain at 10 km/h offer more excitement!!
Last edited by Huertecilla; 28th May 2018 at 11:03.
Race report from Mark Hughes:
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/r...378YTL,12Y9Y,1
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Princess Charlene of Monaco:
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ExcellentPrincess Charlene of Monaco:
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