Reply With QuoteI bought a FOIS from Ernest Jones and the warranty card was dated and stamped by them, shipped with the watch.
I guess returns probably get sold as used pieces but unworn etc.
I got a new watch, online. The guarantee card was missing; the company said they held them back until it was clear the watch wasn't going to be returned, because they didn't have spare guarantee cards . I understand the sense of this and don't mind a slight delay.
But what does puzzle me is; what happens to 'returned' watches? Can these properly still be described as 'new' ? And would you be happy to receive a 'new' watch , knowing that it might actually have been purchased and then rejected by someone else?
What do people think? Is a 'returned' watch still 'new.'
I bought a FOIS from Ernest Jones and the warranty card was dated and stamped by them, shipped with the watch.
I guess returns probably get sold as used pieces but unworn etc.
Obviously, unless it has mark/looks used they will sell it as new. In current day and age companies would go bankrupt if they were to sell each return as used.
The logic of that is that you are happy to accept a returned watch as new? It's not really new is it? Someone else bought it, probably used it. The fact that the shop repackages the watch doesn't make it new, does it?Originally Posted by Sparjar
I can see the dilemma for the shop, and sympathise. But at some point there will be a legal challenge over this practice, and the courts will need to define what 'new' means. It's an unintended consequence of changing consumer law.
There are returns and returns. That's why I said unless it has marks/looks used. If you buy a watch online and return it straight away or even after short while because you didn't like it chances are you've not taken the stickers off or resized the bracelet or worn the strap off. There's nothing stopping them from selling it as new again.
Even buying directly from an AD, unless you get it in an original plastic transport case someone might have already had it (based on personal experience).
Sill newer than buying a watch from a B&M if it's the display model. Some of them are grubby af.
A returned watch sold as new by an online retailer will probably have been handled far less than most of the watches sold in a shop.
Or be swapped with a fake?.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
To me, there is an obvious distinction. Stuff handled in a shop is often sold as ex-demo. And even if not, you are still the first owner. Stuff returned on line has already been owned by someone else. I do think this situation will end-up being tested in the courts.
I feel that if you are being sold returned goods, you should be informed. It's a matter of fairness. If I am paying top-whack, i want factory fresh goods; so, I suspect , do most people. Why shouldn't they ?
Last edited by paskinner; 15th January 2018 at 22:34.
Because it's unrealistic? It's like saying I want a car with less than 10 miles on the clock, anything above that is clearly used. Many cars clock up 50/100 miles and then get reset before delivery (one reset is available at PDI).
People try things on before they decide to buy or not.
There is no difference between watches tried on (probably multiple times) in store and handled by an online buyer at home.
You're away with it if you think that watches are sold as ex demo if they've been tried on.
Surely it’s usually fairly clear - the paperwork would have been completed at the time of the first sale. For a number of brands this cannot be replaced.
It's just a matter of time...
Rubbish
Nope.
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
Well, that would be illegal in the UK. So it sounds like a crock to me.
I've bought three watches in the past year that were clearly display or had been returned, but were never advertised as such. The plastic protectors were missing and the watches all had little marks and scratches that you might miss unless you were obsessed, like me
Needless to say, I returned them and I imagine the process was on a rinse and repeat cycle until the watches found a buyer who wasn't bothered about or didn't notice the scars.
It annoys me that some firms don't properly check returned stock for marks before sending it back out again. If the watch is marked then refuse the refund.
Never happened in my time in the trade.
One of my local major chain jewellery shops has a section for returned/ex-display watches. Usually rubbish stuff but a couple of years ago I got a very nice Longines for £400 versus a list price of about £1,500.
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If a watch was on display in a shop, tried on by many people before someone ultimately bought it - does that make it used?
If a watch is ordered and delivered to someone, they try it on, don't want it and return it - does that make it used?
Most places have a returns policy that says if you wore it, you won't get a full refund. I think this is fair, you shouldn't need to 'try it out on a night out' to know if you like it, you know the moment you open the box surely?
People who wear watches and return them expecting a full refund are no better than those who buy clothes for a special event, wear them, and return them.
I have been checking. According to the Department of Trade, returned goods are second hand and cannot legally be described as new. Companies such as Currys have been repeatedly fined for this practice.
So, no jeweller can legally sell you returned goods described as 'new.' That Is an offence under the Trades Description Act. Very tough for traders, indeed rather unfair given they are forced to accept returns. But that is the law. It should protect consumers....
Well, in answer to the question, who gets returned watches, the answer is me.
Went along to a friendly dealer yesterday to buy a watch, went along to a different branch today to pick it up and it has a series of marks along the left side of the case. Deep enough to be felt with a fingernail, it has been dropped heavily and quietly punted on to some unsuspecting mug, me.
Except, I rejected the watch and they're getting a new one in for me, so I guess the answer to the thread is "some unsuspecting mug who hands over their hard-earned and doesn't look too closely".
I bought a brand new Aqua Terra online from Beaverbrooks.... when it arrived it had marked lugs, and a scratch on the side of the case, and the bracelet had a link out, although it was in the box...
It was obviously a returned watch or a badly handled display watch, I suspect returned...
Well it was returned again, and the next one to arrive was indeed as new....
Those saying rubbish to cars getting a reset at PDI, a) just because you've not seen or aren't aware of it doesn't mean it doesn't happen b) what do you think happens to the miles clocked up by cars randomly selected for QC testing before they leave the factory.
Well I can only tell you how it is with Land Rover- I've seen cars come through with 1 mile and I've seen cars come through with 40 miles on them,
Cars with higher mileage on them can generally have tell tale marks, old leaks and there's a clue to the reason for the mileage, of course at this stage the car hasn't been sold and it would be considerered delivery mileage.
When you buy a watch I didn't realise you had to assume someone had possibly already owned it.
I agree with the OP if you buy new you want new.
I wasn’t going to respond but hey...
A) Never heard or seen it happen in close to twenty years working for a manufacturer, and that’s in roles that bring me into regular contact with the Authorised Dealer Networks.
B) They get sold as second hand used vehicles. They are called “pre series” when it’s a new or updated model which requires major changes in production.
I bought a tag a few years ago from Ernest Jones. When it arrived it has a scratch on it, no stickers and some free human skin in the grooved rubber strap.
I took photos and emailed them and explained this seemed to be fraud and was called pretty quickly and it was quickly explained as a terrible mistake and a warehouse error (yeah yeah...)
They sent me a new one and discounted the price (I forgot the amount but this it was a couple of hundred).
Depends what you mean as worn - if you mean tried it on in the house, if a consumer decided to take on a company and were willing to see it through - they'd win. A lot of companies just rely on consumers not knowing or understanding the law.Most places have a returns policy that says if you wore it, you won't get a full refund. I think this is fair, you shouldn't need to 'try it out on a night out' to know if you like it, you know the moment you open the box surely?
Last edited by Alansmithee; 16th January 2018 at 22:10.
Surely there must be something to this, because the one car we bought new had 0 miles on the clock. Yet it must have rolled out of the factory and onto and off a transporter, possibly been parked up in transit, onto and off a ship, then another transporter and possibly another transit park etc.
The retailers are on a hiding to nothing here if they’ve got to sell tried on watches (or clothes, shoes etc.) as ‘used’ and only puts prices up for us all.
Shouldn’t be any different to trying on in a shop. Anyone marking the goods should be refused a refund.
I wasn't talking about pre series, or test mules. I was talking about random customer built cars being tested by manufacturers in their QC process to identify issues with the process and any trends in built issues that might affect larger numbers of cars. Those cars undergo testing that can accrue fairly substantial mileage. It's a standard process in any modern manufacturing process, you should know this if you really are in the know.
Anyway if you don't believe me have a look on google.
Some quick examples
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=1095740
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/...t=1072679&i=40
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=629752
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/...f=72&t=1625502
Still don't believe it.
Resetting mileage certainly isnt something a pdi technician would be able to do and something I've never heard of with 25 yrs background in the dealer network
Which is what I said in the second point: They get sold as used vehicles.
Did you bother to read what I wrote, then expanded on and what the provided samples say? Cars can clock 50/100 miles and get reset to zero and sold as new not used. It's the same as when cars get damaged during transport, they get fixed (and many times those fixes aren't simple smart repair but proper big jobs) and sold as new cars with no mention of the past repairs. Most are sold on and nobody realises, especially if job was done well.
Cars are never reset to zero,
Like others on here I've 30+ years dealership, distributor and manufacturer experience whereas you haven't, when it comes to damage 'in transit' vehicles can be 'refinished' to factory standard,
Cars are frequently registered by dealers and manufactures to achieve targets, sold as pre-reg (used) or 'dealer demonstrators' (used), most manufacturers also have 'low cost' employee schemes whereby cars are used for 6 months before being sold into the dealer network again as 'ex-lease' (used) cars,
A car PDI will usually involve a test run of a few miles near the supplying dealership, this together with 'transit' mileage is described as the 'delivery mileage', however sometimes customers want vehicles delivered to different parts of the country, and are happy for a driver to drive it to them, though more often this is done as an inter-dealer transfer on the back of a trailer, it is against the law to disconnect , or tamper with a vehicle mileage, occasionally if a 'speedo' is faulty a new one will be fitted (very rarely) this is recorded on the service record as 'new speedo fitted at xxx miles'.
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
I have a Ph.d. in physics and astronomy yet I've never been to the moon that means the whole thing is a hoax and the earth is flat.
Above example plus many, many other examples of people getting cars with 0 miles, cars where main odo reads lower than the trip mileage on the satnav, etc etc. I'm sure it's all a hoax.
PS refinishing a car to factory standards hahahahahahahahaha, sorry I can't stop laughing. I'd rather have a car that has it's odo reset from 1000 miles to 0 than a car that had been refinished to factory standards by a dealer or the importation facility.
Last edited by Sparjar; 17th January 2018 at 13:22.
You're an idiot,,however no doubt you'll want to argue the point.
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
New Ford's can have the mileage set to anything you want electronically via laptop and the correct diagnostic program and code. So a dealer, or anyone with access to the code can reset the mileage to zero or anything they desire. I work for Ford, and via the employee discount scheme I've had about nine new Fords, and they always have some delivery miles on them, usually only between ten and twenty, built up from being driven on and off transporters, and the dealers own pre-delivery test drive. So the facility is there to zero the mileage, but Ford don't do it. Can't speak for other manufacturers.
Nobody cares who has the biggest wang.
That's the spirit, I mean the typical wheeler dealer spirit. If I had a tenner every time I met someone as charming as you in motor trade I'd be a gazillionaire.
What about a rollie that gets tried on by god knows how many people before it’s actually bought? Same problem I think.
Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app
Oh dear, watches pleases watches....(also still think it is cobblers)
That really bugs me , all those people who go to an ad in passing just to try on every Rolex there then leave to "think about it" after taking a photo of each one to stock up there wrist shot profile, someone is going to buy that.
Agreed.
Also - with remote selling - Distance Selling rules apply - it is within your rights to return goods (cancel the contract) within 7 days of receiving the goods if you don’t want them.
So if you don’t like the condition of your (new / unused) watch - just send it back.
Last Omega / Rolex I bought in-store still had stickers on. Last Patek I tried on in-store they removed the stickers so I could see the movement properly. Go figure - as they say state side - where I tried on the Patek. I didn’t buy the Patek btw!
M
Legally, there is a major difference. Trying things on in the store is just that....trying them on. Buying them,, paying for them, is to acquire ownership of them. They are , in law, second-hand if then returned.
That's how it is, no 'ifs' or 'buts'. If returned, goods are then second hand and it is an offence to sell them as new.
It is a dilemma for traders, but that's something for them to lobby the government about.
Last edited by paskinner; 17th January 2018 at 17:15.
Probably on a Friday.
Upto 14 days to notify of a return and then another 14 days to do the return.
However there is a long list of information that you have to provide either on paper or in an email (cannot simply be on your website - has to be what's called a durable medium) and if you don't provide it, the right of return can be extended upto a year.
Doesn't seem to stop you being an idiot.
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
True, but many people here seem more concerned that the item has been worn (where there is no difference) than the legal aspect.
We bought a mattress with 90 day trial. I asked what happened to all the returns. They are all disposed with.
In this particular instance "takes one, to know one" is definitely true.
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