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Thread: Warning: epidemic of much better fakes that have fooled many in the trade

  1. #151
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    You, once again, attempt to legitimise the issue.
    Or perhaps he was simply pointing out a more balanced and pragmatic view than your own.

    You hate fakes. We get that. But it's still foolish to reject knowledge about them, no matter where it comes from.

  2. #152
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    Warning: epidemic of much better fakes that have fooled many in the trade

    Quote Originally Posted by amcneill View Post
    No.think about it - making something fake to this level is very impressive.they are not your cheap obvious fakes but designed to a level to deceive people who are in the business or enthusiasts like us.

    Sent from my [device_name] using TZ-UK mobile app
    I agree. Imagine if they instead made a legit watch with all this technical knowledge and finishing capabilities! They may even have done alright! Shame they went the criminal route instead.

    Also goes to show that the huge majority of the price of a legit watch we pay goes to marketing celebrity endorsements and also the maintenance of afterservice etc
    Last edited by kaiserphoenix; 13th January 2018 at 23:09.

  3. #153
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markrlondon View Post
    Or perhaps he was simply pointing out a more balanced and pragmatic view than your own.

    You hate fakes. We get that. But it's still foolish to reject knowledge about them, no matter where it comes from.
    Pragmatic?

    Give the world a break Mark - I am not rejecting the knowledge (Heywood) I am challenging the interest by others.
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  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by dobbsie View Post
    These are things earned through work so hard most will never comprehend, and require things that most don't possess. No shame in admitting if you're one of the many, just don't walt it. They are anything but "illustrative". A Rolex is a trinket, available to anyone with a half about credit history. Just a thing, like a TV or a car.
    You know nothing of me - my point was indeed illustrative.

    I have earned more than most in terms of serving the public, so I comprehend, I have given. Take the comment for what it was and stop trying to inflate it into anything more.
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  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by markrlondon View Post
    I agree.

    If this thread has proved anything it is that we, as lovers of genuine watches, need good, clear information on what to look out for and Bonesey is a useful source of that information.

    To victimise him appears to me to be naive, shortsighted and pointless, other than as a tool for certain persons' self-aggrandisement.
    Completely agree with this.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowdon View Post
    The other day several posters said they don't mind buying watches that had been used for VAT fraud. Today there is a problem with buying fakes.

    Both are unacceptable. Nobody's faeces smell any nicer than the next.
    +1
    All good things to those who wait.

  7. #157
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    There are some clear distinctions between the points and attitudes displayed here by different members.
    As has rightly been stated, Heywood wrote the OP to educate and warn.
    I am prety confident he is someone that has never handed over any money to the criminals who make and sell fakes.

    There are others here who have done so. Yes, they may have knowledge that is beneficial to the rest of us on the forum, but at the same time, they have contributed to the black economy that undermines the genuine watch industry.

    Only last month we were commenting on the potential demise of Fortis, a very well established brand of hiostorical note.

    Those are exactly the type of company who suffers most from the fakers.
    Sure, Rolex doesn't lose on a £8000 sale when someone buys a £500 fake.
    But companies like Fortis do lose, big time, because the fake buyer is putting his money into the fake with the big brand and the poor quality, instead of the genuine smaller brand that offers pretty good quality. And so they die.

    That is the company that loses, as the buyer has decided that it is the brand that is most important aspect of his watch, and not the quality of the product itself.

    It is a pretty ludicrous postiion to take, when you think of it.

    Buying fake Rolex instead of a real Fortis really is like buying the MR2 that looks like a Ferrari, rather than buying a genuine Lotus.

    The only differnece is that the MR2 Ferrari replicas are so obviously crap they are funny, whereas the Rolex fakes are not in the slightest bit funny.

    I do appreciate learning about the fakes, but in no way do I consider it acceptable to buy them. At all

    Dave

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweets View Post
    There are some clear distinctions between the points and attitudes displayed here by different members.
    As has rightly been stated, Heywood wrote the OP to educate and warn.
    I am prety confident he is someone that has never handed over any money to the criminals who make and sell fakes.

    There are others here who have done so. Yes, they may have knowledge that is beneficial to the rest of us on the forum, but at the same time, they have contributed to the black economy that undermines the genuine watch industry.

    Only last month we were commenting on the potential demise of Fortis, a very well established brand of hiostorical note.

    Those are exactly the type of company who suffers most from the fakers.
    Sure, Rolex doesn't lose on a £8000 sale when someone buys a £500 fake.
    But companies like Fortis do lose, big time, because the fake buyer is putting his money into the fake with the big brand and the poor quality, instead of the genuine smaller brand that offers pretty good quality. And so they die.

    That is the company that loses, as the buyer has decided that it is the brand that is most important aspect of his watch, and not the quality of the product itself.

    It is a pretty ludicrous postiion to take, when you think of it.

    Buying fake Rolex instead of a real Fortis really is like buying the MR2 that looks like a Ferrari, rather than buying a genuine Lotus.

    The only differnece is that the MR2 Ferrari replicas are so obviously crap they are funny, whereas the Rolex fakes are not in the slightest bit funny.

    I do appreciate learning about the fakes, but in no way do I consider it acceptable to buy them. At all

    Dave

    Very well said Dave. Sums everything up perfectly.


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  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowdon View Post
    The other day several posters said they don't mind buying watches that had been used for VAT fraud. Today there is a problem with buying fakes.

    Both are unacceptable. Nobody's faeces smell any nicer than the next.
    The fact that no one agreed with you the other day has obviously rankled with you and you are now trying to tie it on to this thread.
    If you want to resurrect that thread then please do but don't hijack this one.

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonesey View Post
    I have a couple of nice watches mate and a good few sub £1k genuine watches, I'm not poor.

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    Well I suppose if you sold the 70-80 fakes you had you can probably afford them. 😂

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    You, once again, attempt to legitimise the issue.

    The desire and wish to own one is not in itself, dishonest - it is a display of deceitful/walt behaviour, let's be clear, the high end stuff is more than the average person would ever spend on a watch, ever. to buy/wear one is nothing more than the watch equivalent of wearing a General's uniform when you are not a General.
    I must say that I find your attitude rather sad. A general's uniform is a symbol of authority, not an accessory.

    Is this really why you like expensive watches? Do they make you feel important? Do they provide for you a sense of self worth that you wouldn't be able to achieve, otherwise? I can't help but feel a little sorry for you, but hope you're able to attain a little bit of the sense of the self esteem through your watch collection that you evidently otherwise lack.

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweets View Post
    Only last month we were commenting on the potential demise of Fortis, a very well established brand of hiostorical note.

    Those are exactly the type of company who suffers most from the fakers.
    Sure, Rolex doesn't lose on a £8000 sale when someone buys a £500 fake.
    But companies like Fortis do lose, big time, because the fake buyer is putting his money into the fake with the big brand and the poor quality, instead of the genuine smaller brand that offers pretty good quality. And so they die.

    That is the company that loses, as the buyer has decided that it is the brand that is most important aspect of his watch, and not the quality of the product itself.

    I can't quite accept this analysis. I don't want a Fortis, and I wouldn't buy one if I'd never seen a fake watch in my life.

    My impression from inhabiting rep fora over the years is that people who do like them tend to be watch enthusiasts who have also most likely bought an unusually high number of genuine products in a similar price range - Steinhart, Seiko, Christopher Ward, whatever. It's not either-or. And if the average Joe in the street had bought as many Seikos, Casios, Citizens, Smiths, Kemmner and other brands as I have (not to mention Breitling, Omega, IWC, Rolex), all these companies would be dramatically better off than they are now.

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    Well I suppose if you sold the 70-80 fakes you had you can probably afford them.
    I would say touche, however when sold at a loss over the replica forums it is not a positive sum equation not like I magicked the bloody things out of the air.

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  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweets View Post

    Only last month we were commenting on the potential demise of Fortis, a very well established brand of hiostorical note.

    Those are exactly the type of company who suffers most from the fakers.
    Sure, Rolex doesn't lose on a £8000 sale when someone buys a £500 fake.
    Not really, because the person or persons who want a Rolex and buy a fake are unlikely to buy a Fortis.

    The number of genuine buyers in the price range for Fortis should in theory outweigh fake buyers by the tens of thousands. Don't pan off the demise of a mid range watch company for lack of innovation or buyer desirability for the tiny percentage of replica watch buyers. Yes it's an issue, but not as big an issue as some would make it seem.


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  15. #165
    Master Dave+63's Avatar
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    Just one fake watch in the market is a bigger issue than we should be facing!

    Whilst I can accept that knowing as much about them as possible could prevent a person from being conned at some point, there can be no justification for actually owning them.

    That’s just my opinion but one that I’m sure is shared by most folk on here!

  16. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by kaiserphoenix View Post
    I agree. Imagine if they instead made a legit watch with all this technical knowledge and finishing capabilities! They may even have done alright! Shame they went the criminal route instead.

    Also goes to show that the huge majority of the price of a legit watch we pay goes to marketing celebrity endorsements and also the maintenance of afterservice etc
    Things like decent wages, environmental standards and quality control could have an effect on the pricing, too.

  17. #167
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    If you make a fake watch then sell it on you're putting it into circulation to potentially deceive people, whether or not it's you that's the criminal.

    How would any of the 'replica' enthusiasts feel if it transpired the watches they had built and sold had subsequently been used by criminals advertising them as genuine, to defraud people out of their money?

    And how do they know they haven't?

  18. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belligero View Post
    Things like decent wages, environmental standards and quality control could have an effect on the pricing, too.
    Chinese wages,environmental standards and quality control have caught up big time in the last couple of years.
    Im not sure under what conditions the counterfeit stuff is produced obviously but legit manufacturing in China is now pretty much on a par with Europe for new plants.

  19. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by trisdg View Post
    If you make a fake watch then sell it on you're putting it into circulation to potentially deceive people, whether or not it's you that's the criminal.

    How would any of the 'replica' enthusiasts feel if it transpired the watches they had built and sold had subsequently been used by criminals advertising them as genuine, to defraud people out of their money?

    And how do they know they haven't?
    I don't think the replica enthusiasts tend to "build" the watches.
    I take your general point though.

  20. #170
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    It would be nice if we could stick to the topic instead of Bear Pit type cat calling.

    I suppose there are two issues arising from this.

    1. Will an "epidemic" of top quality fakes mean that private buying and selling is far too risky and becomes a thing of the past ?

    2. Will it cause prices to drop due to the restrictions of having to buy and sell through dealers who have to make a margin on every transaction in order to survive ?

    There are various antiques whose prices have crashed due to an influx of really good fakes, Tea Caddies being a prime example. Could watches go the same way ?

    In one way it may not be a bad thing as genuine watch lovers will buy from a respected shop because they really want it for what it is and will more or less keep it for years instead of frequent flipping. Also is it a good thing for prices to continuously climb and out price many enthusiasts from the market.

    Or will we still continue to buy via respected dealers and live with the two ended mark ups and just put up with inflated prices. I don't have a clue to be honest.

  21. #171
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    The Louis Vuitton obnoxious fakes doesn't really seem to have harmed the brand.
    People will always pay for the full exclusive retail experience(tongue firmly in cheek) of buying these in a fashionable Madrid,Milan,London boutique and the same with Rolex.
    Regards the secondary market I think HM has a business opportunity here to authenticate our watches prior to sale.(only half joking)

  22. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hood View Post
    I don't think the replica enthusiasts tend to "build" the watches.
    I take your general point though.
    Au contraire. Especially when it comes to hard to obtain and stupidly overinflated vintage pieces. They might not do it themselves but I had plenty of commissions for vintage pieces when I was making watches.

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  23. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonesey View Post
    Au contraire. Especially when it comes to hard to obtain and stupidly overinflated vintage pieces. They might not do it themselves but I had plenty of commissions for vintage pieces when I was making watches.

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    Stop it.
    You're scaring me now.

  24. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hood View Post
    The Louis Vuitton obnoxious fakes doesn't really seem to have harmed the brand.
    People will always pay for the full exclusive retail experience(tongue firmly in cheek) of buying these in a fashionable Madrid,Milan,London boutique and the same with Rolex.
    Regards the secondary market I think HM has a business opportunity here to authenticate our watches prior to sale.(only half joking)
    Hi Hood

    The main difference is that people go into a LV shop, buy the goods and would not be the sort of person to buy second hand. We were in Florence earlier in the year and you almost had to fight you way into the many LV shops that were there. These people appeared to be wealthy and just would not even think of buying second hand. Also they wouldn't need to sell it, they would just give it to someone.

    Rolex watches has a thriving new and second hand market and private sales are the norm. If you cannot trust yourself or even the most honest person on this forum to swear to the almighty that his watch is genuine, then the dynamics of the market change and I doubt if any of us can sensibly predict which way it will go.

  25. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2012 View Post
    Your final point is well made. The problem that I see however, is that the seller you buy from, may himself have been duped. So although the seller is genuine and decent, the buyer ends up holding the baby.

    For me, buying from an AD is the only option, unless its a bricks and mortar seller, and the moment I buy, its off to Rolex for a service. I think this caveat is only for Rolex, PP etc.

    For something in the hundreds rather the thousands, then I might be prepared to take a punt, and of course, still buy the seller.

    Scary post indeed Mr Haywood. Did you call the police? Certainly, if video footage was taken, then the police should be informed in my view. Afterall, if you had taken it in good faith and later it was discovered you had sold it on, your reputation would be severely damaged...
    Either buy from an AD or a solid brick and mortar establishment if used, so you have recourse if you have a problem. This buy the seller nonsense is really pushed by all manner of used watch sellers. If you buy used, buy the watch. The means inspect it yourself, carefully, and know what to look for. As stated, the seller may be a fine person, yet have no clue they're selling a fake. This is why I think it's idiotic to buy a watch of any value online, based only on pics and the seller's "reputation." A person's identity on the web is easier to fake than warranty cards and paperwork, which as said are really easy to fake.

  26. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boots View Post
    If you buy used, buy the watch. The means inspect it yourself, carefully, and know what to look for.
    But wasn't Haywood's point that, even for somebody with his significant knowledge and experience in handling Rolex watches, this example was very difficult to distinguish from a genuine watch, especially without looking at the movement.

    Many of the tells were only obvious if you could compare it next to a genuine one (and how many private buyers will have access to a genuine example of the watch they are looking to buy?) and examine the movement (good luck if you expect a seller to let you remove the back of the watch that they are selling - even if you have a Rolex back opener and a pressure tester with you ).

    It used to be the case that, with a reasonable amount of knowledge, an enthusiast could distinguish a genuine watch from a fake one. With this latest generation of fakes, that may no longer be true.

  27. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipK View Post
    [COLOR=#000080]But wasn't Haywood's point that, even for somebody with his significant knowledge and experience in handling Rolex watches, this example was very difficult to distinguish from a genuine watch, especially without looking at the movement.
    It took a couple of seconds for me to determine this watch was fake.

    My post was intended to illustrate how close the fakes are getting, how convincing the “package” is becoming and my belief that many dealers and private buyers would now be fooled, as a significant number already had.

  28. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    I don't have a clue to be honest.
    At last something we agree upon.
    All good things to those who wait.

  29. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonesey View Post
    I would say touche, however when sold at a loss over the replica forums it is not a positive sum equation not like I magicked the bloody things out of the air.

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    Well the fact there are 70-80 fakes that you put back in circulation tends to prevent any feeling sorry for your losses to be honest. And if you had spent that amount of money you could in all probability have afforded to buy some “genuine” watches. So why would you buy that many fakes? Unless you were simply a seller of fakes and not a “collector”?

    As someone who likes genuine watches and sometimes buys pre owned this will affect my hobby I think.

  30. #180
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    As someone who buys second hand, this is really worrying. Although I could spot a bad fake, one as good as the OP described might slip by me. This could happen to a lot of people and as mentioned ruin the second hand market.

  31. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton View Post
    It took a couple of seconds for me to determine this watch was fake.

    My post was intended to illustrate how close the fakes are getting, how convincing the “package” is becoming and my belief that many dealers and private buyers would now be fooled, as a significant number already had.
    And I think your post did just that for me anyway. I’d rather know that there are such good fakes out there than not. If they are good enough to fool some smaller shops or dealers then we must obviously be more careful.
    I’m grateful for the heads up about it.

  32. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    Well the fact there are 70-80 fakes that you put back in circulation tends to prevent any feeling sorry for your losses to be honest. And if you had spent that amount of money you could in all probability have afforded to buy some “genuine” watches. So why would you buy that many fakes? Unless you were simply a seller of fakes and not a “collector”?

    As someone who likes genuine watches and sometimes buys pre owned this will affect my hobby I think.
    No different from the flipping habits of people on here. Use SC to try something out, get bored, move it on. Rinse repeat until you have what you're happy with. And thanks for your concern, I have some very nice genuine watches, more genuine ones than fakes for sure.

    As regards putting them back in circulation there are countless millions of fakes manufactured each year. Any that might get traded amongst the replica forum dwellers is less than a drop in that ocean and far less likely to hit any sort of general circulation. Buy the seller not the watch ( then double check the watch).

  33. #183
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    I can see many sales taking place a Rolex hq,
    And the cost of an extra link being added into the sale price. Probably the safest way to buy a second hand Rolex privetly now. It's very scary tho.

  34. #184
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    Fakes will never ruin the second hand market. They are a fact of life and where a quality product exists it will be copied. Human nature drives the market. I just accept we are all different with differing views, i do not agree with many out there but just educate myself as best i can to protect myself.
    Personally i would not buy a fake but can see the allure. I recall a friend at school had a fake tag that had a Seiko movement, to my knowledge he still has it 30 years on. He was proud of his cheap Tag Seiko. Not my thing but no-one could tell him he was wrong, he just did not care and that is why fakes will always exist.

  35. #185
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    In find it amazing how some people refer to these watches as "replicas". They are not. They are counterfeit goods. Plain and simple. Made with intent to deceive and at the same time fund criminal enterprise.

    The same principle applies to handbags, shoes, perfumes and even currency. How anyone could feel morally and legally justified in thinking it's ok to buy and sell "replicas" and think that they're doing no harm us just plain wrong.

    What Haywood has highlighted was an attempt at fraud with a counterfeit item that to the uninformed looks as convincing as the real thing.

    There are experts who can spot a counterfeit a YSL or LV Handbag through careful examination, and the counterfeiters are getting more and more sophisticated in the efforts to deceive. To say that this doesn't affect the manufacturers are wide of the mark as this is a global enterprise that rakes in huge amounts of money, and those that buy into the "replica thing" are complicit.

    This isn't some Pattaya market street "Bolex", this was a sophisticated attempt to pass off a counterfeit item as the real thing.

  36. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    At last something we agree upon.
    Go back to the BP if you need to make petty comments like that, there is no place for them here.

  37. #187
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    This thread has been a wake up call without a doubt. I suppose at the end of the day it is all down to the level of risk you are prepared to take. I think my days of buying watches are over because I have enough, so therefore this is unlikely to be a problem for me personally.

    If I did ever buy a watch privately, it would be on the strict understanding that I either view it at the sellers residence or place of work and pay a decent watch shop on the same day to verify it before exchanging cash. If the seller did not agree, then it's a deal breaker. Even that is not 100% safe but it makes it safer.

  38. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    Go back to the BP if you need to make petty comments like that, there is no place for them here.
    I knew the era of consent between us was going to be short-lived.
    All good things to those who wait.

  39. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by DandyHighwayMan View Post
    In find it amazing how some people refer to these watches as "replicas". They are not. They are counterfeit goods. Plain and simple. Made with intent to deceive and at the same time fund criminal enterprise.

    The same principle applies to handbags, shoes, perfumes and even currency. How anyone could feel morally and legally justified in thinking it's ok to buy and sell "replicas" and think that they're doing no harm us just plain wrong.

    What Haywood has highlighted was an attempt at fraud with a counterfeit item that to the uninformed looks as convincing as the real thing.

    There are experts who can spot a counterfeit a YSL or LV Handbag through careful examination, and the counterfeiters are getting more and more sophisticated in the efforts to deceive. To say that this doesn't affect the manufacturers are wide of the mark as this is a global enterprise that rakes in huge amounts of money, and those that buy into the "replica thing" are complicit.

    This isn't some Pattaya market street "Bolex", this was a sophisticated attempt to pass off a counterfeit item as the real thing.
    This is a good summary; I don't think this forum is the place for those who have any hand in counterfeit goods.

    Thank you to Heywood for highlighting the risks we now face ... I believe the solution is in the hands of the brand owners through some sort of ownership registration or blockchain style solution as the watch and papers are now not enough.

  40. #190
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    I’m shocked and amazed by this. Just goes to show that when I hear some people say something along the lines of: “take it to an AD to have them authenticate it” - it actually means nothing

  41. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by DandyHighwayMan View Post
    In find it amazing how some people refer to these watches as "replicas". They are not. They are counterfeit goods. Plain and simple. Made with intent to deceive and at the same time fund criminal enterprise.

    The same principle applies to handbags, shoes, perfumes and even currency. How anyone could feel morally and legally justified in thinking it's ok to buy and sell "replicas" and think that they're doing no harm us just plain wrong.
    Aren’t they ‘replicas’, what’s the difference?

  42. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Aren’t they ‘replicas’, what’s the difference?
    It's a weasel term used by fake enthusiasts. Unless it's for a specific legitimate purpose, such as being used as a film prop to avoid damaging an original, don't call it a replica.

  43. #193
    Sadly, with no disrespect to any forum members or HM, the only way I’d buy a Rolex in 2018 would be brand new from an AD. I’ve actually felt this way for years as the temptation to sell a knock-off Rolex must be huge as the profits to be made (now a new steel Sub costs as much as a small car) are probably worth the risk to the criminal fraternity. And if it takes an expert to spot a fake, then I’m afraid I’m out. I’m not for a moment suggesting anyone on her has knowingly sold a fake watch, but if they’re so hard to spot then how would you know?


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  44. #194
    Craftsman smalleyboy1's Avatar
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    As the quality of these fakes improve, which they will, then few people may be able to spot them. Milton stated in his OP that many people in the industry had already been taken in by the high quality fakes. Give there are high quality fakes being actively touted to bricks and mortar shops, it is likely that these shops may have a few in used stock and may well be unknowingly selling them. Based on Milton’s post, I suspect that these fakes are circulating in the used watch market, perhaps in small numbers but they are there.

    In time perhaps, a buyer will request that a watch is examined by an independent expert and once satisfied, the transaction will complete, possibly via the expert. Plenty of people pay for independent car inspections, I could see the sale of expensive watches adopting something similar.

    I can’t see how the average punter when buying a second hand watch will have the knowledge, tools or confidence to spot a fake. Even if the seller is well respected, who is to say, they haven’t been duped if they bought the watch second hand?

  45. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by Belligero View Post
    It's a weasel term used by fake enthusiasts. Unless it's for a specific legitimate purpose, such as being used as a film prop to avoid damaging an original, don't call it a replica.
    Used by a lot of watch enthusiasts on here too. Personally, don’t care what they’re called, we all know what’s meant.

    Back to the counterfeits themselves, are electronic warranty cards (as Breitling now has) secure? Would this be solution for new watches?

  46. #196
    Craftsman
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    Quote Originally Posted by golf View Post
    I can see many sales taking place a Rolex hq,
    And the cost of an extra link being added into the sale price. Probably the safest way to buy a second hand Rolex privetly now. It's very scary tho.
    I had the Diver's Extension removed and purchased the screwdriver at RSC St James' for my SD4000 that I bought last year!

    Hopefully that would have covered both the authenticity and stolen register!

  47. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Used by a lot of watch enthusiasts on here too. Personally, don’t care what they’re called, we all know what’s meant.
    That doesn’t make it right, though. It’s a deceitful term that’s used to make counterfeiting sound less shady, and those who don’t want to give this impression would do well to avoid it.

  48. #198
    It’s just a shorter word.

  49. #199
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belligero View Post
    That doesn’t make it right, though. It’s a deceitful term that’s used to make counterfeiting sound less shady, and those who don’t want to give this impression would do well to avoid it.
    Nonsense
    Its a term used by many. Replica or fake,even"genuine fake" means the same and doesn't add legitimacy to anything so someone using the term should not be tarred and feathered as you seem to wish.
    Just because its a term you don't personally use doesn't make it a bad word.Thats only in your own head.

  50. #200
    Craftsman
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Back to the counterfeits themselves, are electronic warranty cards (as Breitling now has) secure? Would this be solution for new watches?
    I’d guess that most brands have some form of warranty registration scheme but it seems, shall we say, a little ad hoc.

    My last two purchases (FOIS bought online and Speedy Tuesday from Omega Boutique) the former has the warranty dated and stamped but no name, the latter has my name on it too. However I’ve no way of knowing what got sent to Omega, or if the cards contain electronic data.

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