Reply With QuoteWith diesel sales falling off a cliff i think now is a good time to buy if the price is right even Euro 5.
I am normally a petrol only owner but some of the deals i have seen on diesels including BMW have been very tempting.
I've spotted a car which I like very much. Has every toy known to man, low mileage etc, but it's classed as "Euro 5+". I usually keep my cars one to two years or so, but discounting this, what are the thoughts of those who probably know more than me about all this?
I live in Manchester but occasionally visit London, although usually by train anyway. So around here we don't really have much congestion charging if any at present.
With diesel sales falling off a cliff i think now is a good time to buy if the price is right even Euro 5.
I am normally a petrol only owner but some of the deals i have seen on diesels including BMW have been very tempting.
^^^^ I'll agree with that because if you're only going to keep it a year or two, legislation I imagine will have stabilised somewhat by then with regard to diesel vehicles.
Thanks. The deal isn't too bad, but at the same time, I'm not quite there yet with it. I normally buy around this time of year, but I think the car has such a high spec, the dealer is thinking it'll sell soon enough. They do annoy me though... "we barely have anything in the car..." type of talk etc. WBAC values it at several thousand less than it's up for, so I doubt they paid much more as a part ex or however it came to them.
Why do you need "toys"?
to "play with" i would imagine...?Originally Posted by Backward point
I'm referring to the adaptive cruise which comes in very handy around the 50mph zone we have in place around Manchester, the heads up display, keyless entry, adaptive LED headlights, front/rear heated seats, 4 zone climate, sound system, night vision etc. Whether some are gimmicks or not, they add desirability to the car and I feel that's what's stopping them from dropping more than a nominal amount so far.
Cars are now marketed at people who don't buy them as "cars", but as conveyances for electronic gimmicks. Something to brag about to their mates, who, as they wouldn't know a good car if they fell over one, are easily impressed by such gee-gaws.
Citroen are now selling their DS range (or rather they're trying to position it further up the food chain than it has any right to be) on the strength of its' electronic gadgetry. Imagine that. As everybody knows, French cars are well regarded for their reliable electronics, and using that as the core strength around which to build a brand is a sound move.
It's easier, in this age of cheap electronics, to add a few gimmicks to an uninspired average car than it is to develop good cars in the first place.
Buying a car because it "has all the toys" = "I know nothing about cars but I need something as an emotional crutch".
Had you considered that he may have narrowed down his choice of cars to a specific model based on usual criteria and trotted off to find the right one, and one with a basic specification comparer to one with "all the toys" make a different buying proposition, all other things being equal.
That's a bit harsh imho.
I like, no, love cars and would like to think that I know a thing or two about them. But I still prefer cars that have some "toys" - because 90 percent of the time, you not driving for pleasure and you need some comforts i.e. music etc to make journeys bearable.
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Those options would make me buy a Nissan Micra! Sounds like a nice car. I wouldn’t worry about diesel if you can get a good deal and won’t keep too long. As for “we don’t have a lot in it” they must have learned how to sell from SC. Next they’ll say they want what it owes them...🤣
Any particular reason why you are being such an arse? Your comments have nothing to do with Wayne's question which (to my eyes at least) revolves around buying a Euro 5 compliant diesel.
I wouldn't buy a Euro 5 car now, simply as I believe other cities are likely to follow London in the next few years. As soon as they announce their plans (even if implementation is a while off) I expect the values of of pre-Euro 6 cars to tank and I expect you're not looking at a Fiat Panda, Wayne.
What brand and model is it Wayne just out if curiosity ?
Tbh that sounds like a veiled targeted response to me rather than a generalised reply. You don't know me so I'll tell you what toys are now must-haves for me and why...
- Heated seats... I have a bad back
- Adaptive cruise... we have a 50 zone around Manchester which was supposed to end in September but is now carrying on for much longer as works are taking forever. You can sit in any lane and the car in front will do 46mph or 54mph, rarely in between. I find the car controlling the speed is safer and less stressful, and I relax more since I've had this on my cars
- Keyless entry... I carry large, heavy items for work and finding my key in my pocket is much less convenient than just walking up to the car and placing the item inside
- Auto lights/wipers... safer as I'll never forget to switch the lights on and the wipers are used a lot with our changeable weather so I find it convenient
- Dual zone climate... my girlfriend and I are both slim, but she's always really cold and I'm never as cold as her... there's times where I'll have my side on 16 degrees and her 24 degrees!
That's just some of the things I want/feel a necessity in a car these days. A car is a tool for me, and it should work so.
So for you to suggest I'm just bragging about the toys to my mates is a bit daft, as it's something I shy away from. I very rarely brag about anything, ask my friends and hopefully they would agree.
I'm not so unknowledgeable as to not know most of these systems are the same from brand to brand, with the "Distronic" in my C250 being the same as the ACC on most VAG products only coded differently etc. However these systems are around for a reason, because people buy them and in some case, actually require them.
I'm sure you have some nice watches and you tell your mates at the pub about the fascinating features of them though.
Yes. The car market these days is where people in glass palaces sell sparkly novelties on credit to people who don't know any better, and want something shiny with lots of gimmicks in order that their friends and neighbours will admire it and they can bask in their leased awesomeness.
It's called "added value", and car manufacturers are able to achieve it with cheap electronics in order to add lustre and "kerb appeal", which is actually a thing if you're one of those marketing types, to very average products. Another means to achieve the same effect is to make larger cars, which also appeal to those who know no better, and is the reason why it's so difficult to park these days, even if you do have electronic parking aids and a reversing camera as optional extras.
Haha I'm waiting for that as well tbh. I'm not sure if I heard wrong but I think they told me "we only have £400 in the car" but then they offered me a grand off in the next sentence lol.
Yeah point taken. That's what I was thinking but at the same time, if it doesn't happen in the next couple of years, it probably wouldn't matter I guess.
It's an Audi A7. I returned one last year (created a thread somewhere) and have had a hankering since, even though my current C250 is incredible and more than enough other than me sometimes having issues with the practicalities of a saloon.
Don't take it personally. It's a swipe against the sheep-like mentality of the great car-buying (or, in this day and age leasing) public.
No it's a POV from someone who very clearly suits his username.
In answer to your original question, I don't believe that there's a Council in the land which will be able to resist the opportunity to raise additional revenue by targeting diesel car owners. And then see what happens to residuals when you're banned from city centres or have to pay through the nose to drive into them and park.
As ever, motorists will be easy targets for politicians unable to resist the chance to make a name for themselves.
Not a cricket fan, then? Cheap shot from someone who should know better.
So you derail the thread and then actually manage to give a good and concise opinion in a reply? Why couldn't you have just done that in the first place. Thanks anyway.
I’d be wary of buying a diesel which was pre Euro 6 precisely because these are likely to be targeted and could well prove difficult to sell on in the future.
I find cruise control useless on British motorways during normal operating hours apart from in average speed camera zones when virtually everyone else is sticking to the same speed. It's interesting how precisely establishing a car's awareness of its position is valid for adaptive cruise control, autonomous cars, pre-emptive braking/avoidance of impending accidents, sat nav/traffic alerts and I'm sure lots more. I'm a great believer in doing all the driving myself but there's no escaping technology and lots of people already drive like their cars are impregnable fortresses. Modern cars really do make life easy and considerably more comfortable for us all, often sadly at the expense of weight and size.
It's interesting that as cars have become bigger and heavier diesel has become much more relevant (as well as it being encouraged as an alternative to CO2-producing petrol cars). Are there any petrol versions of the A7 that are economical to run (and not taxed too highly) but affordable to buy?
I would be very wary of buying that diesel A7. New diesels have just been hit with extra tax and manufacturers have pointed out their latest cars are actually much more environmentally friendly than the current and past crop so why screw them over when they're actively doing something about it all. I can see prices increasing three ways - road fund licence, fuel duty and congestion charges (as in entering cities). You may not have an issue with it now but it could severely affect the price you sell for in a couple of years time.
Ha, just noticed JeremyO said just that in much fewer bandwidth directly above!
"A man of little significance"
Personally I think as long as you pay the right price for the car now and it is loaded you will see a decent return in a year or two. For many people doing higher mileage there really isn't a viable alternative to diesel yet IMHO and having lived in rural Cheshire for the past 8 years I've always used the fantastic public transport in and around Manchester which is better than any city I've lived near too before.
Of course, you could always lease if depreciation is your major concern.
Thanks Simon, yes the ACC does require a driver to always be aware in case it goes a bit awry, but I've never had any issues personally and find it to be brilliant on the Audi and Mercedes I've owned. Haven't tried it on other cars but I'm sure it works well.
In terms of petrol alternatives, I'm fancying a car with a decent amount of power. The only thing that suits is one of the Audi "S" models and I'm sure they're incredible, but they'll cost a LOT more to run than the equivalent diesel and insurance will be higher as well. So I'd have to go for a smaller petrol four pot and then I don't really like the idea of changing my car so much. It's rare I'd get to use the power but when I can, I enjoy it.
Public transport would be impossible for my business unfortunately, but yes leasing is an option. I just really dislike the idea of a company holding the V5 and worrying about damaging the car before returning it at the end of the contract. Plus my mileage varies wildly each year so I wouldn't know how much to go for in that respect. I can see why people do it though if you have regular circumstances.
That's the problem isn't it, diesel offers the power to lug around the toys at what until now was an affordable price! This from Car magazine last month:
"Registrations of new diesel cars slumped by 29.9% in October 2017, falling at a much faster rate than the overall market, itself down by 12.2%. The drop in oil-burners sparked the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT) trade body, which collates sales data, to call on the Government to clarify its position on diesel cars."
And that's just new cars.
"A man of little significance"
The government is very much to blame for confusing things. At first they made it sound like all diesels were doomed, but then it became apparent congestion charging would relate only to "older" diesels. I still don't know if "older" means pre Euro 6, or a certain age etc. I know quite often I'll be sat behind a smokey diesel car and put my recirculation valve thingy on to stop the smell/particles entering the car, but they're usually a good few years old.
My current car is Euro 6 so being sensible, I should stick with that and its £30/year tax. Sensible is a bit boring sometimes though.
Is your current car petrol powered? If not, in the current climate, by moving back into an earlier emissions standard you're likely to leave yourself open to new legislation designed to fleece car drivers protect the environment. Which will, of course, conveniently ignore the fact that pollution is also caused by public transport vehicles and commercials.
Yeah true, although how much realistically could they add as a tax to the RFL? It would have to be £4-500+ combined with town surcharges etc to make a massive dent. My current car is diesel Euro 6. It's a C250 Mercedes so has all the start stop etc gubbins
Major cities are currently looking to impose additional charges on pre-Euro 5 cars, so it wouldn't take much for the restrictions/additional charges to be applied to Euro 5. Euro 6, being the current standard, should be safe for a while, but who knows? My own view is that owning a Euro 5 compliant car will be fine until the politicians, at national and local level, decide to punish the owners of all but the latest diesel cars, at which point the value of those cars will nosedive as they instantly become less desirable.
I live near Southampton, the second busiest port in the country, and by necessity situated next to the sea, and the winds which howl in across the water. Yet the city fathers are bleating about pollution levels, and much hot air is created in discussing charges for diesel cars. Meanwhile, some of the world's largest container ships and cruise liners come in and out of the port every day, moved about by hard working tugs. All of which are diesel powered. Yet these ships bring much trade to the city, and if they're made less welcome here, they will simply go to Felixstowe or Liverpool instead. So it's easier, and far more remunerative, to charge the hapless motorist extra for driving to work and parking their diesel car.
I think all our ideas are far better than the government on here, so we should start the TZ party. We’d control watch pricing and sort all this politics rubbish out :-D
The same could be said about most 'luxury' watch purchases... People can do with their own money whatever the heck they like.
[Sgt Wilson] Do you think that's wise?[/Sgt Wilson]
Depends on your commute though, I used to leave J10 on the M4 and travel against the traffic to J17 daily. Set cruise after joining & never really adjusted it until the slip road at the other end - dull as hell though!
Current M4, M25 to St Albans & no point in having CC at all. ACC, now that’d be great but can’t relax enough in the times I’ve trialled it for it to make sense - plus I’m a lover of manuals, despite knowing reverting back to a 5 series auto vs my daily JCW would be far more sensible.
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That’s not necessarily nonsense. It happens all the time.
I recently sold a c220 AMG premium plus estate which was an ex-demonstrator, it already lost £2000 and we still discounted it by £800. It wasn’t ever going to go up in value, in fact in January I estimate it would pill £800, thus the deal was struck. It’s still £32k back into the company coffers. You win some, you lose some!
That just sounds like you really want all the toys but can’t afford them.
However we live in a world where people camouflage jealousy by tying to show how a basic cheaper product will suffice, that buying something expensive is just to replace the big gaping hole in a life.
But to some it’s not expensive it’s just the price point they operate in.
Believe me when I’m sat in my Bentley I don’t think wow look at all the toys, I just think wow what a very very nice place to be sat in this god awful stationery traffic silently edging along listening to classical radio, thinking I could stay here all day whilst the rest of the world rushes round.
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Far fewer spelling and grammatical mistakes than usual for you. Did somebody help you with it?
Just another reason to lease / PCP rather than buy?
Every male comes equipped as standard with the only toy he'll ever need.
Must be difficult being so humble knowing how everyone lives their own shallow life.
How do you manage to avoid being arrogant ... :D
Well I drive a taxi for a living. The latest choice of taxi seems to be the Dacia Logan because it can be picked up brand new for less than 10K. Would I buy one? No. I spend 9-10 hours a day behind the wheel and I want some ‘toys’ in my car. I may not need them but they certainly make my life easier. Opening the electric tailgate to put shopping in before getting out of the car, the AMAZING intelligent lighting system that means I never have to touch my lights and I’m always in the best lighting conditions for the moment. My heated seats to keep my butt warm when I get in on a cold morning. I could go on and on. Do I ‘need’ these toys? No, do i want them, yes, absolutely.
I practice. Ask Volvoman how he manages to remain so humble.
A different scenario, because the car is a tool of your trade. And tax-deductible.
I don’t see how it is any different. We all drive cars and so called toys make life easier, more comfortable etc. Toys don’t need to be tools of trade or tax decuctable to be useful.
Take this morning, an icy, cold morning. I could choose to take my car or my wife’s this morning, both have lovely warm heated seats but I chose my wife’s car as it also has a heated steering wheel and a quick defrost windscreeen. Saved my scraping ice. Pleased to have ‘toys’ available and I suspect anyone would appreciate those options when faced with an icy, frozen car at 7:30am
My objection is to the expression "All the toys", along with the automotive manufacturers pandering to a market driven by the illiterate demands for ever more fripperies and unnecessary complications which come between the driver and the tactile immediacy and enjoyment of driving.
There are cars for drivers. And there are cars for those who like to boast.
But enough derailing of Wayne's thread. The answer to which is "no, but you should be ok with a Euro-6 compliant car for a few years".
Last edited by Backward point; 18th December 2017 at 17:41.
I think you’ll probably be ok, my car is Euro4 and still exempt from the London “emission charge” apparently.
So, an update. Went to see the car. Drove 4 hours each way. Got the keys to sit in it and, meh. Couldn’t put my finger on why I didn’t fall in love with it. It was stunning and had everything I want/need/don’t need but in the end I just drove home and didn’t go ahead with it.
I have a current shape c class and it’s an incredible car, so maybe that was why the A7 suddenly no longer appealed as much as it once did.
Which "toys" do you object to so vehemently?
Not surprised
It's just a matter of time...
Not a criticism just an observation - but isn’t any car a bit ‘meh’ after a few months of ownership? - admittedly I’ve never done more than 6 or 7000 miles a year so have never really been all that bothered about cars but have always been surprised how quickly my latest ‘pride and joy’ just becomes ‘the car’. Back on topic, I have a 2 year old D5 XC60 and whilst initially I planned to keep it I will be getting rid in a year or so - I think diesel will become a liability in terms of tax etc, and I’m very impressed with modern petrol engines.
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Definitely after 6 months, there's few cars that have kept my attention, no matter how good they are. However when I'm buying it, I'd rather not find it "meh" before I've even paid for it :-D
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