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Thread: Experience with Insurance Companies...

  1. #1
    Craftsman skmark's Avatar
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    Experience with Insurance Companies...

    Feeling very frustrated and to be honest a little disillusioned. I’ve managed to reach the age of 51 without ever raising an insurance claim…..maybe I’ve been lucky, though I’m not feeling that lucky right now.

    About 2 weeks ago my Vespa GTS300 was stolen from the scooter parking area outside my local train station. I reported to the police and insurance etc. as you are supposed to do. Within a week I heard from the insurance company that the bike had been recovered by the police and a phone call to the police confirmed this along with confirmation that it had been recovered following a pursuit (!).

    Nothing more from the police until I receive a letter informing me that I have a number of days to collect my bike from the pound before I will receive storage charges (thanks!)….also in the post 2 speeding tickets for the bike whilst it was stolen (too much to expect one part of the police to communicate with another?). I inform the insurance company who duly state they will recover the bike and let me know whether they will repair etc.
    I then receive a call from the insurance company asking if I know if the person who stole my bike has been arrested (??)…..apparently at the end of the ‘pursuit’ the bike was involved in a head on collision with another vehicle the owner of which is now making a 3rd party claim.

    Next communication is an email from the insurance company yesterday stating that the underwriters are now declining my claim and that I will need to arrange with their logistics team for the return of what is left of my bike. It’s only then that I discover that every communication with the insurance team so far has been without any phone number being given (I wonder why)…..this though does give me time to calm down. The reason for the decline they have stated is that my Statement of Insurance says Datatag was installed on the bike and they have contacted Datatag and found no reference to this therefore I have not adequately secured my bike in line with my policy.

    I have responded via email as actually my Statement of Insurance says the following;

    Alarm – not fitted
    Immobiliser – Datatag
    Tracker – not fitted.

    Clearly there is just a branding error on behalf of the broker in relation to the immobilizer. I have a factory standard immobiliser fitted and working and assumed was the factory fitted brand name inserted by the broker. Datatag do not supply immobilisers they are a vehicle tracking device supplier. I surely cannot be penalised for not having a device fitted that I have never said was? Despite my email response ‘apparently’ I have to await until their formal written letter declining my claim arrives, which will include details of how I can appeal. Meanwhile I’m being hassled this morning by the insurance logistics department to have my bike returned.

    If that wasn’t enough since the bike theft we’ve now been burgled too (unrelated). I was completing the mountains of documentation required to prove ownership of lost items for that claim when I received the email above yesterday morning.

    I’m now beginning to wonder if there is actually any point in having insurance at all ? I’ve religiously paid various types of insurance over the years in the belief that should I ever need assistance then they would be there to help. I’m now left feeling that should I ever need help they will do whatever they possibly can to avoid their responsibilities actually causing more stress and trauma than the original event they are supposed to be providing help with. Am I being overly negative or is this just standard fair?
    Last edited by skmark; 13th December 2017 at 11:54. Reason: Spelling

  2. #2
    Not uncommon for InsCos to try and duck a claim of course. It boils down to what you told them at inception - whoch may be tricky to prove if done online. They'll almost certainly have a get-out-of-jail card in that it is the policy holder's responsibility to check the data at the outset.

    AFAIK Data tag is 'just' a marker for individual parts on a vehicle? If someone typed in Datatag in a free-format cell at inception - I don't think the insco are expected to know every brand of immobiliser so it's back to what was input at the outset...........

  3. #3
    If they can find a way to weasel out of a claim they always will, write to the Insurance ombudsman and keep going with the appeal and put in a formal complaint.

    Often the squeakiest wheel gets greased with insurance companies, they'll always try it on in the first instance as many people can't be bothered to fight them.

    The broker should take some responsibility for incorrectly filling out their paperwork too.

  4. #4
    Administrator swanbourne's Avatar
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    You should consider retaining a loss assessor.

    Eddie
    Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".

  5. #5
    Master steptoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skmark View Post
    I have responded via email as actually my Statement of Insurance says the following;

    Alarm – not fitted
    Immobiliser – Datatag
    Tracker – not fitted.

    Clearly there is just a branding error on behalf of the broker in relation to the immobilizer. I have a factory standard immobiliser fitted and working and assumed was the factory fitted brand name inserted by the broker. Datatag do not supply immobilisers they are a vehicle tracking device supplier. I surely cannot be penalised for not having a device fitted that I have never said was?

    I’m now left feeling that should I ever need help they will do whatever they possibly can to avoid their responsibilities actually causing more stress and trauma than the original event they are supposed to be providing help with. Am I being overly negative or is this just standard fair?
    It's your bike so you should have more knowledge than an insurance broker of what or was not fitted.

    Datatag is a merely a security marking system (limited to five items) that supposedly acts as a deterrent, helping locate the parts after a theft, it's not a "hard" security fitting.

    Their responsibility is based on your information being accurate.

    Sorry for being blunt but they are businesses not charities.

    The devil is in the detail...It helps having details of who you've spoken to, copies of any paperwork you've filled in and police reference numbers.


    Good luck, they may consider your past history and be forgiving.
    Last edited by steptoe; 13th December 2017 at 15:16.

  6. #6
    Sorry to hear of your troubles especially at this time of year.

    Not sure what the Insurance co are getting at here. I could understand if you had declared you had an immobiliser but it then turns out you actually didn’t. That’s clearly not the case here.

    What does your policy state about how your bike should be secured? I wonder if the insurance co are saying that the factory fit immobiliser is insufficient and you were required to have additional measures e.g alarm/tracker/uprated immobiliser which they think is what Datatag is?

    Certainly appeal and if necessary use the Financial Ombudsman as there’s clearly a misunderstanding and no intention to deceive. It will take time to sort unfortunately.

    http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/

    Best of luck

    Casper

  7. #7
    Master steptoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanguard View Post

    The broker should take some responsibility for incorrectly filling out their paperwork too.
    The broker can only work with the information he's been given.

  8. #8
    Master Tifa's Avatar
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    Name and shame....

  9. #9
    Master steptoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skmark View Post
    I have responded via email as actually my Statement of Insurance says the following;

    Alarm – not fitted
    Immobiliser – Datatag
    Tracker – not fitted.
    Quote Originally Posted by Casper View Post

    Not sure what the Insurance co are getting at here. I could understand if you had declared you had an immobiliser but it then turns out you actually didn’t. That’s clearly not the case here.
    But it is the case, as he has declared a separate non existent immobilser.

    Remember insurance companies only see in black and white. Your job is to find the man who can also see the grey.

    Hopefully it's just a misunderstanding. I doubt the bod behind the desk has a scooby what a datatag is and is just going by the book.
    Speaking to someone more involved and knowledgeable with technical details may help.
    Last edited by steptoe; 13th December 2017 at 15:30.

  10. #10
    Craftsman skmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steptoe View Post
    But it is the case, as he has declared a separate non existent immobilser.
    .
    Thanks, but actually it's not the case as I did not declare the above.

    The policy was taken out via the telephone and I stated a factory standard immobilizer. I am fully aware of what Datatag is as I've had it with other bikes when it used to come as standard with new Vespa's. I clearly therefore would not have stated that Datatag was the make of my immobilizer.

    My only mistake that I can see is not identifying this minor error when my documents came through....so for that I should just put all this down to experience and suck-up £3k loss?

  11. #11
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by skmark View Post
    Thanks, but actually it's not the case as I did not declare the above.

    The policy was taken out via the telephone and I stated a factory standard immobilizer. I am fully aware of what Datatag is as I've had it with other bikes when it used to come as standard with new Vespa's. I clearly therefore would not have stated that Datatag was the make of my immobilizer.

    My only mistake that I can see is not identifying this minor error when my documents came through....so for that I should just put all this down to experience and suck-up £3k loss?
    please please go to the insurance onbudsman site downlaod (or ring them ) and fill in the complaint from and explain to them in simple language as you have here in this thread. No emotion - you are just a lay person trying to be reasonable. reasonable is a very good word use it a lot (if justifiable). Forget the non relevant emotions that you felt but include details like no phone numbers on letters etc etc but word it differently - something like "the insurance company did not help the situation by their refusal to have verbal communications regading this matter in order to expedite a resolution" That sort of thing.

    You will probs win if it is as you say and the application is recorded as you say ( scan and send copies of all the relevant stuff including any that you might have in relation to the cost of purchase of the vehicle - mileage records.
    I have done it twice. Won both times; once when my son wrote the car off (Git!!). They made me an offer - I didn't like it - they upped the offer - I still didn't like it. During a telephone conversation with an agent from their company, I heard some bitch in the background shout "tell him to go to the F'ing ombudsman" - so I did and won :-)

    2nd time they tried to say that the vehicle wasn't covered because of a miscompleted form - I won again (though that one was on behalf of someone else).

    The broker BTW, in law, is your agent not the insurance company's as far as I recall. I think its insurance acts 1919 but I forget now soz.

    Good luck

    B

  12. #12
    Master
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    Who is the insurance company,it maybe you are dealing with a unknowledgeable clerk ask to speak to someone further up the chain.

    I am with carol Nash who wanted to write my Bike of just by the description I gave over the phone of the damage.
    When I asked to go further up the chain they relented after some pressure from me and put me in direct contact with AXA the actual insurance company.

    The Bike was recovered to my house before I got out of A and E and placed neatly in my garden.
    The AXA assessor came round 2 weeks later and when he saw how much the Bike meant to me went out of his way to get it repaired,he was very experienced and sympathetic.
    I was lucky as it should have been written off by the costs alone.
    The Bike was collected by a garage recommended by him and is gradually being rebuilt as spares are located.

    As the accident is deemed my fault my riding equipment isn’t covered (I didn’t know this) but when I phoned my home insurance direct line I was in for a (good)shock.

    Anything that can be used off the bike is insured boots,jacket,trousers,gloves even the tank bag as it’s removable but not the helmet.
    They didn’t want to see any photos of the damage then settled the claim over the phone within 2 hours, I got a cheque a week or so later.
    He told me I was allready vetted or something and this helped make it easy.

    My broken ribs,raw knees and damaged hands are being taken care of by the NHS,thank goodness for them.
    Now all I need next summer is the strength and will to get back on and ride.

    So don’t give up you can get through it.

  13. #13
    Master steptoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skmark View Post
    Thanks, but actually it's not the case as I did not declare the above.

    The policy was taken out via the telephone and I stated a factory standard immobilizer. I am fully aware of what Datatag is as I've had it with other bikes when it used to come as standard with new Vespa's. I clearly therefore would not have stated that Datatag was the make of my immobilizer.

    My only mistake that I can see is not identifying this minor error when my documents came through....so for that I should just put all this down to experience and suck-up £3k loss?
    It's not a minor error to the insurance company. It's part of the facts that they took on your business.

    You said the broker made the mistake ? .. Get the broker to act on your behalf, that's what you pay them for.

    Hopefully it'll all be sorted out in your favour. Believe me i'm on your side, i deal with insurance companies on a weekly basis involving motorcycle repoairs and have an idea how they work.

  14. #14
    Craftsman
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    I think your first point of call is how the information relating to the immobiliser on the statement of fact was incorrect, did you take out the quote online or deal with a broker over the phone, how did the mistake come about. Who’s fault is it.

    You’ll need to make a formal complaint to the insurer/broker, once you have their final response you’ll be able to take the matter to the FOS.

    Under the Insurance Act and based on you making a careless mistake (not deliberate or reckless), the insurance company would need to prove that had they known a standard immobiliser was on the bike, they wouldn’t have agreed to provide cover.

  15. #15
    Master
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    A family member who works for one of the biggest motor insurers in the UK tells me that their claims people are given a small bonus when they are successfully able to minimise or even better totally negate claims. As an example.... Whilst perusing the photos of a stolen and crashed BMW he noticed that the car had aftermarket wheels and spoiler fitted. Sure enough.. that was enough to give the Company cause to claim that the policyholder had not declared modifications and the claim was rejected. His summary of the Company's policy is that if you give them even the slightest sniff of a loophole they are through it and gone, like a rat up a drainpipe.

    Rob

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