Reply With QuoteI can't believe 10 people think there's intelligent life elsewhere in the Solar System. If that were true, the Universe would look like Oxford Street at rush hour.Originally Posted by seikopath
no - nothing at all. we are the only ones anywhere
yes - there is other intelligent life but not in our solar system
yes - there is intelligent life in our solar system but they have never been to earth
yes - they have been to earth and had direct contact with individuals on earth
yes - not only are they regular visitors but they walk among us
yes- they are much more advanced than us
yes - but we are more advanced than them
yes - human life and alien life are closely related
yes - and i am shit scared of them . have you seen that film with will smith ffs
yes - they are probably a bit like people, both good and bad
I couldn't find the option for 'Is there intelligent life on earth?'
I can't believe 10 people think there's intelligent life elsewhere in the Solar System. If that were true, the Universe would look like Oxford Street at rush hour.
Rolex will have long since gone bust, Daniel Wellington or an as yet unknown Kickstarter project will be the ultimate in ancient horology.
Well not really.
We already know that out of the planets of the solar system only one has life that we currently know about it.
Also its highly unlikely that even if we find life on Mars , Titan or Europa its not going to be at an advanced civilisation level.
So definitely life is rare and sentient advanced life is rarer still.
That automatically confers vast value to any other civilisations out there: and I’m not talking about stealing water or using humans as the next intergalactic fast food novelty.
Even if two alien civilisations met its almost unthinkable that they wouldn’t put away their differences and fully embrace each other’s cultural histories and experience.
Within a few generations I suspect the two civilisations would merge completely with one another : we wouldn’t be earthlings , they wouldn’t be aliens to any more degree than the fact I’m from Glasgow and some of you are from London. Actually probably a bad analogy.
Nevertheless the two civilisations would eventually become one (Glaswegians excepted).
The massive cultural wealth of a civilisation and the comparative rareness make this pretty much unstoppable. There would be no reasons to prevent this that wouldn’t immediately be solved or compromised by both parties.
Another way to think about it is if you were stuck on a desert island for 20 years and a really ugly woman washed up you would automatically see her as the most beautiful thing ever and instantly fall in love. Any other response would be pointless (unless its your mother or sister or daughter... lets not go there)
So yeah we might be small and tiny and powerless but we are most definitely rare and valuable and incredibly precious by or own terms or any another civilisation.
We’d just find each other too damn interesting to ever go to war or denigrate each other. It would be a really great thingfor both parties , probably the best thing its possible for any sentient life to experience in this universe.
At least we’d tell you earthmen that before we get the barbecue sauce out.
Yes, but only according to our perception. We only see a thin spectrum of visible light. The majority of life would surely be on other dimensions
Good luck everybody. Have a good one.
As someone who isn't religious and therefore doesn't believe earth or mankind are some kind of divine creation, logic simply says to me that there must be life on other planets out there in the vastness of space. It might just be bacteria in a swamp, it might just be vegetation, or it might well be humanoid or other. But I just think if the stars aligned sufficiently for life to happen here, it must have happened somewhere else out there in that infinity.
As to whether we're being visited here on earth? Whether UFO's are real? I dunno.. stuff like Roswell or the Rendlesham Forest incident and the like are always interesting and certainly help fuel that kind of speculation. I'm somewhat less convinced of that, but definitely think there's something out there.
Good point.
Even if someone did believe in god/divine creator etc that would not necessarily preclude belief in extra terrestrial life etc
Good luck everybody. Have a good one.
Oh really ?
I guess that's a fair comment. I guess I was just saying that my thought process is coming purely from a scientific / reasoning perspective rather than from a religious belief perspective.
There "MIGHT" be intelligent life out there, because we have determined that intelligent life exists on at least one planet and there are potentially a huge number of planets out there. Do tell me how you determined that a god "MIGHT" be out there?
More than god yes.
I said yes as I saw a UFO in 1997, so I know aliens exist.
Roswell? Rendlesham Forest?
You've been watching this bloke...
Cheers,
Neil.
I cannot definitively say that there is not " a god" out there - I personally don't believe that there is but thats not relevant
What I said was there might be a god or a creator out there I didn't say that a creator MUST be a god.
"That intelligent life out there MIGHT be a creator of our universe................ would that make that intelligent life a god ?" is what was said.
A creator might be a creator event or intelligent life - if you are a believer in multiverse theory then it's quite conceivable. Just because they (intelligent life) create a universe it doesn't make them gods. If you are in single universe mode - just because you dont see stuff - it doesn't mean it isn't there...Dark matter, dark energy, antimatter, ephemeral sub atomic particles et al. (assuming that we can extrapolate the current quantum thinking to the macro/universe level).
It's not logically inconsistent either since there MIGHT be ethereal beings existent in a higher dimension than six say that we don't know about yet. You can't prove that they aren't there in our universe or other parallel universes (if they(other universes) exist).
It seems to me though that if there is a creator event (ignoring the discussion about "gods") then it is more likely - or is it? - that the causality would be external to the resultant existence.
The "or is it" sits around multi dimensional non extant space time that may be created as a result of the creator event
So would a being from sixth dimension up say - be within our universe or not ? Mulitiverses then ? Who knows ?
The why we are, knowledge wise, Donald - just accept and move on until we establish the facts which at the moment we dont have a handle on.
Theoretical physics is matching theories to experimental fact and really is making slow progress given the thousands of years that we have been here.
Also if you are a Darwinian (which I am ) then we we are basically stomachs that developed brains by evolving - so I think that evolution has a long way to go before one of us becomes able to even understand some of this creation stuff.
:-)
B
Last edited by Brian; 13th December 2017 at 17:20.
What did it look like?
Good luck everybody. Have a good one.
Yes.
I like to believe in things occasionally.
You assume we’d appear civilised to a race who’ve needed to master both the tech to get here but also the developed the psychological and social maturity to forge a civilisation capable of doing this given the distances and environments involved...they might keep a few of us as pets, maybe...
The other thing is, is the time scales involved, our species will likely be around for an eye blink in evolutionary terms...the dinosaurs lasted about 165 million and so far modern mans been around for what 200 k or so. The odds of our paths crossing another intelligent species, very very long. Just my opinion and i would be delighted to be proven wrong, provided they’re friendly.
Last edited by Passenger; 13th December 2017 at 18:27.
Balance of probabilities says to me that there is something else out there somewhere. But it is too far from us in space and or time to allow interaction.
Whether we are / have been visited I find much less plausible. When I was growing up in the 70's / 80's there were numerous sightings / shaky videos of UFO's reported. You would think in the current age where nearly everyone is carrying an HD video recording device 24/7 there would be many more better quality videos around and being shared much more widely. That doesn't seem to be the case though...
An extremely, extremely good point.
So clever my foot fell off.
When two civilisations meet it doesn't normally end well for the less advanced. At least not so far.
I still don't understand how you can determine that there "MIGHT" be a god or creator out there and saying that " You can't prove that they aren't there in our universe or other parallel universes (if they(other universes) exist). " is completely shifting the burden of proof, which is on those that make existentialist claims.
We should only believe things when they are demonstrated to be true. Scientific enquiry and reason are what tend to establish that which we 'know'. Claiming something "MIGHT" exist or be a cause without any demonstration of why, is not usually how we establish truth.
Spot on ook.
Well I think any civilisation that has managed to get off worlf will likely realise the futility of destroying something as rare as another civilisation even thy have drastically differing ideals. There would simply be no value in it.
As for time . Its not much of a problem if we have moved over to sentient machines or digital personalities. You just run them at low cpu cycles till you get there. Maybe send a small ship with the data , reconstruct a body at the other end , download the personality into it . They might take 500years to get there but thats nothing in the grand scheme , if you can make it seem like 5 minutes or 5 years in paradise virtually who cares.
Thats how we'll cross the light barrier.
Unless they want to eat us and colonise our world.
F.T.F.A.
I'd be in the same boat had my sat nav not taken me passed the house on the hill on the outskirts of Bridgenorth with Xmas lasers shooting out all over the night sky. The foggy night made it seem like there were entities / balls of light following my car and darting around to get my attention as I drove home through the Shropshire countryside in the small hours after an Xmas gig.
If I hadn't have seen what had caused the phenomenon I would be claiming I had seen UFOs too. At the time I genuinely thought I was witnessing something profoundly other worldly.
Dunno d every time we’ve got to another continent and encountered a lesser civilisation it only ends one way., also see the way we’ve devastated the mega fauna in short order wherever we go.
Why would sentient machines bother to revive the messy, irrational and flawed biological mind at the other end of the trip.
I would love to be proven wrong and there turns out to be an advanced alien species that see something in humanity worthy of nurturing over perhaps century’s to a stage where we can take our place in galactic society...it’s the stuff of great stories.
I think it is naive and/or foolish to assume that we (humans) are the only intelligent life in the universe.
Actually, i'll correct that...
I think it is naive and/or foolish to assume that we (humans) are there only intelligent life on this planet (sentient animals, mammals etc excepted).
In fact, the single biggest deceit that is perpetrated against the inhabitants of this planet, is that we are alone, and that there are not intelligent, biological, extra terrestrial beings among us on this planet.
Soon, the secret will be too big to keep.
Anyone that can fly halfway across a galaxy is not going to be interested in the calorific content of Joe bloggs.
Sentient machines would probably download themselves into a biological body just for the entertainment value. Anyway who said it would have to be a biological body.
I doubt there needs to be anything more profound to make two civilisations coming together other than fun and novelty, especially if it takes millions of years for them to find each other.
Or colonise us and eat our world !
Not necessarily true mate
Food plays a big part in travel writing for example
Good luck everybody. Have a good one.
We likely won’t be around for millions of years on all current indicators, perhaps only a couple of hundred more at best and the universe is a bloody big haystack...hurry up ET
So how do you explain the fact that 90% (or whatever it is) of the earths population believe in god.
People aren't rational
Thats not a bad thing
That's just how it is
This whole forum is built on the love of watches
What's rational about that?
Good luck everybody. Have a good one.
That is what's known as a fallacy named 'argumentum ad populum' and is demonstrably not a valid argument. Once, people believed that the sun went around the earth but the fact that everyone believed it, didn't make it true .....
We lie to ourselves to try to make life bearable
I didn’t answer the poll because there wansn’t an ‘I don’t care’ option.
I’ve given pondering questions I’ll never learn the answer to.......I even cheat at crosswords thesedays.
I think it’s fair to suggest that we are a little more enlightened now than then wouldn’t you. But you miss my point. Go back and read the post I quoted, and you will see why I wrote it.
Enlightened? Possibly in that we have learned a little in the interim through science and reason which has destroyed many early religious ideas. However the reason that many people still stick to their various god beliefs is that those beliefs still help where our ignorance still exists, humans just hate not knowing the answer to important questions, so often just invent one that satisfies them.
This is known as the 'God of the Gaps' principle, another logical fallacy.
Last edited by Artistmike; 13th December 2017 at 23:00.
Heh, also I want to believe that 'stop playing with your food' notion is quite universal.
Fas est ab hoste doceri
Ok let's rephrase it - I am not determining - I am not believing - I am admitting that there is a possibility - ergo - it MIGHT be.
Belief, Self interest and the new religion of science is what built the Large Hadron Collider , after all. - What is the LHC looking for ??
Might truth not emerge from the quantum sphere when most of humanity in history has searched for truth from the 'Heavenly' or astronomical sphere ?
I have no axe to grind on this point nor self promotion - just an interest in what is 'real' - but that's an epistomological conundrum around our senses and the world as we perceive it. I could give you a drug and you would believe that a god was real and had spoken to you maybe.
I cant agree with this statement: 'Claiming something "MIGHT" exist or be a cause without any demonstration of why, is not usually how we establish truth'
Lets take the presence of the protein troponin in the blood after a heart attack ? we still don't know why - it is correlative I grant you - so is it not a truth.
Truths may sometimes be discovered - one could say MIGHT be discovered :-)
B
Again, I can't see how you are determining an epistemic possibility. In science, as in most things, we work from the known to the unknown using methods that are verifiable to ascertain what is true.
Claiming that 'gods' MIGHT be a causation, without first demonstrating that they exist, is not a reliable way to determine probability.
We have an alien among us in Teresa May!.
"First Man on the Moon" with Lionel Jefferies.
Look at the Moon creatures and how they walk,then watch a clip of how May walks........Same!.
And yes I believe we're not alone.
Ps If someone goes to the trouble of googling the film etc,pop a clip on here of the Alien and May walking.
Was this over Essex?
Quite a lot of Aliens here in Bradford,but not from outer space,maybe a threat to mankind tho.
They might exist and they might be a causative element is not inconsistent - whereas to deny existence of an entity or temporal event on the basis of a lack of knowledge is - it seems to me.
I cannot make a truth statement without an existential qualifier but I cant, a priori, deny that an existential qualifier may exist just because I can't make attributions based on my current sphere of knowledge.
I think we will just have to disagree :-)
Cigar shaped, silverish in colour. Many people saw it. It was in all the papers. Made the hairs stand up on the back of my head, it moved like nothing from this planet. I was with my girlfriend and her daughter so I know I was not imagining it.
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Yes in Benfleet
Was this in daylight? What were the visibility conditions like?Cigar shaped, silverish in colour. Many people saw it. It was in all the papers. Made the hairs stand up on the back of my head, it moved like nothing from this planet. I was with my girlfriend and her daughter so I know I was not imagining it.
- - - Updated - - -
Yes in Benfleet
Good luck everybody. Have a good one.
To be a causative element they must necessarily exist, and you haven't demonstrated that one or more do, there's your inconsistency... One too many 'mights' ... :-)
Brilliant sunshine not a cloud in the sky, I was sitting under a tree when I spotted it. It just hung in the sky maybe 500 foot up? it then moved about 2/3 miles in a nano second to the other side of the sky and hung like it had before. It the went vertically into the stratosphere like something off Star Trek. In the Sun the next day they asked 'Did you see something in the sky yesterday? ' ring this number. I did, they asked what I saw I described it, they said that's what everyone one else has described. Then articles appeared in all the papers with drawings etc but not clear photos. Nowadays with phone cameras you could film it, but back in 1997 you'd have to be lucky to be carrying a camera.
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