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I guess some would consider you correct, if they were from a planet populated by rude individuals where HIA relates to knees!Originally Posted by Saint-Just
Shameful lack of sportsmanship from you. Dupont was KO’ed and he damaged his knee in the fall. The doctor who signalled it to the ref was the official for the match. Keep that sort of attitude for when you go to your usual football games.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
I guess some would consider you correct, if they were from a planet populated by rude individuals where HIA relates to knees!
I am 100% convinced that you would not have posted if the player had worn an English shirt.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Both may have a point but Nigel Owens was placed in a difficult position after being assured that the need for HIA came from the match doctor. Just wish Nigel could learn to pronounce "H* - and no it's not a Welsh thing.
Just watching England play some very good rugby but the effect has been spoiled by the most un-necessarily verbose commentary. In my opinion both Nick Mullins and Ben Kay should ease back on the "information" level - after all this is television and not radio.
Italy playing the best they have in a while
They did, and so did England. And what about Simmonds!!!
One word - impressive.
Everyone had a good game, the only exception was Brown (time for him to spend time on the bench). The rest of the backs were excellent. Ford and Farrell ran the centre - also excellent.
However a big shout out to the forwards. Itoji, Robshaw and of course Maco, but the highest praise must go the Simmods - what a debut.
Italy were good - better than Scotland, hence might get a result against Scotland.
Most enjoyable. Eddie will be pleased.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Excellent game. Great debut from Simmonds.
Andy
Wanted - Damasko DC57
Yes, very entertaining this afternoon.
Not a bad first weekend for my top 3.
Given it is being investigated I think our comments are valid. See http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/42936200 Dupont's was well dodgy based on Owen's questioning, the tv footage and the commentary. There is no way he was KO'd first either. He twisted his knee and there was no impact to his head so you are flat wrong.
The decision was the match official doctor’s. It wasn’t the French coach’s. Last year France was criticised for not following protocol against Wales. It may or may not have played its part in the decision. We’ll see what the enquiry says but I don’t think France gained an advantage so regardless it wasn’t lack of sportsmanship therefore since you aligned yourself on KK’s comments you are wrong.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
So what do we know.
Italy and France better than expected, but both lost while playing at home.
Wales were ok against very bad opposition and Ireland just scraped a win over France.
England were in cruise mode and will win the grand slam at a cantor. England at Murryfield will be a walk in the park and they will see France off. That only leaves Ireland at Twickers and I feel that England will blow them away on current form.
So moving on to next week
10/11 February
Ireland v Italy, Saturday 2.15pm - has to be Ireland.
England v Wales, Saturday 4.45pm - at Twickers so it will be England by at 10+
Scotland v France, Sunday 3.00pm - Scotland assuming it wet and cold, closer if the ground is hard and France have beaten Ireland (a shock result).
Ireland will be at home and should win easily, but not sure that they will get the bonus point - yet to score a try! Ireland by 15+
England at home. Young injured will might mean Care will start with Wrigglesworth? as back up. Whoever starts it is will mean the game will be more open. It should be a good tussle, but England will simply have to much providing they keep their discipline - which they did for much of the game today. England by 10+
Scotland at home having played so badly will want to restore some pride against France. France having only just beaten by Ireland will have some momentum hence this could be the game of the week. France by 7+ But I hope the sweatties step up and make it a contest.
Last edited by Andyg; 4th February 2018 at 21:23.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
I understand the goings on...as seen on TV. My question, who decides if a HIA is appropriate...and how?
My guess is that the game officials leave it up to the medical staff. And how do the medical staff decide? Now that IS the question. If a player hobbles off, but says he banged his head...what is the doctor expected to do?
From the news coverage, I gather that there is to be a review of the HIA protocol. Good thing too, IMO.
They need to have an independent match doctor just like the ref and linesmen as in this case he was French (and just for completeness he should not have been Irish either) which just adds to any conspiracy theory. Also the rules should probably not allow for an already subbed replacement to come back on in the case of a HIA since it allowed the French scrum half back on. The latter really being the part of the rules that will lead to potential manipulation.
Independent doctor is a bit difficult as he is in charge of all the local medical teams and must be able to organise emergency care and coordinate with local health services. Language would be an issue.
What can be read on French media, from 4th ref Thomas Charabas: the line judge Paul Williams signalled to Owens that he believed there was a possible head shock, a commotion. It is on this info that Nigel O stops the match and makes the sign that signals a commotion. Dupont and the French staff say its the knee, not the head. Because he has a doubt, Gilles Garet (doctor for the match) maintains the HIA protocol. That is what Charabas then goes and say to NO. He confirms that neither the player nor anyone from the French team came to him to request the HIA protocol, even though the team doctor could legally have initiated it as the match doctor cannot overrule against the protocol ( he can overrule for the protocol).
We’ll see if the coming days confirm or infirm this side of the story.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
How on earth did the TMO disallow that? Clearly had downward pressure on it. Agree with the pundits - Shocking!
Wales kicking far too much and handing it to Brown each time and if they kicked all their 5 penalties would be in the game
I am recovering from England v Wales. So close.
Mike Brown "man of the match"
It wasnt a try. If it was then Wales would have 5 more points than they did.
However if we got the ref'ing we all approved of then England would have won at least 2 World Cups and god knows how many Grand Slams and Championships - but shit happens and we move on.
But if you want to talk about the referee, why not talk about the inconsistency shown. England were pinged at the scum, line out and at the tackle, got pinged for offside and going off their feet at the ruck, yet some how Wales managed (mostly) to avoid such sanctions, yet committed the same crimes. Yet no complaints about that I hear. I would be interested to know what the exact penalty count was - 5 to 1 in favour of Wales?
Bottom line is the result and the performance and effort shown by both teams. It was a good game for both teams and this time England were just a bit better. As demonstrated by the try count 2-0.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Mike Brown "man of the match"
I was shocked myself. Farrell was the obvious choice, but perhaps they decided against it on the basis that that he was involved in the "handbag" session.
I thought Joseph and May were also very good.
Wales pushed England, but I never thought Wales had enough to beat them. It was if England had another gear if necessary.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
No it wasn't a good game for Wales.
As so to Ireland.
Very poor performance by Italy in the first half. Error after error, quite right penalised by a ruthless Ireland. Sexton was on fire and the scoreboard showed it.
Second half was a bit closer, but the gap in talent was still there.
Ireland got the bonus point win (as expected), but will be troubled that they managed to cough up 3 tries in the process. Credit to Italy for giving it a go.
Scotland vs France tomorrow and I still fancy France to roll Scotland over.
Last edited by Andyg; 10th February 2018 at 21:30.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Ireland top the table
Farrell was peerless the difference between the two teams, Launchbury was huge, Brown .... whatever
Indeed, however it's who is top after the England Vs Ireland Game that matters most.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Not sure if everyone was watching the same game today. I'm not a fan of Brown but he was head and shoulders the man of the match today with his catching of high kicks in tricky conditions which enables England to transition into attacking positions very quickly.
Hard to make a judgement call today due to conditions but I felt Wales were lucky to only be 9 points down before they started their comeback.
England would get slaughtered by the All Blacks with that performance so they need to step up in order to win the World Cup
Agree largely with Brown MoTM, but thought Farrell played very well albeit alot of his hard work went unnoticed - there was a point where he did fantastic ground work and turned the ball over in a potentially dangerous position which seemed to be missed by the commentators.
England played well for 35 minutes, although if the Welsh are allowed their try, it's a very different game for the second half.
Would this be the All Blacks that just managed to beat Scotland and lost the Ireland? That said the AB would probably win, but "slaughter" I think not. England have some world class players and won 24 of their last 25 matches. A record not to be sniffed at.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Had it been a try, it would have been allowed. A pivotal moment in the game, but the TMO knows the rules and has to apply them. Wales were unlucky, England were very effective in defence, with Sam Underhill's try-saving tackle typifying their work ethic. In parts the game was a bit turgid, in others it was a classic no-holds-barred encounter between two evenly-matched sides.
Although no trees were harmed during the creation of this post, a large number of electrons were greatly inconvenienced.
I know which game I was watching and Owen Farrell was definitely the best player on the pitch but yes despite this someone awarded Mike Brown Man of the Match.
Wales poorly kicked to him what felt like a zillion times
Congratulations England. Wales did well to keep the scoreline down and on another day it could have been a smash and grab but was not meant to be
No Biggar no Halfpenny
I'm slightly more interested to see if the hype-train that is 2018 Scotland can actually show up..my fingers are firmly crossed!
Shouldn’t Hartley (I think) have been sent to the sin bin at the very beginning, for replacing his arms by his head in a tackle?
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
In short, yes.
Usually, yes, but he headbutted Samson Lee, and was always going to come off worse in that scenario.
Although no trees were harmed during the creation of this post, a large number of electrons were greatly inconvenienced.
I think Hartley was trying to camouflage himself, unfortunately the Ref made him change his shirt.
This.
I'm also surprise the Brown got MoTM.
Bloody cold in the stands too.
Andy
Wanted - Damasko DC57
Sam Underhill’s covering tackle though. Made up so much ground corner flagging.
I was at Twickenham, had great seats. Brown for me was not MOTM, probably Launchbury, Farrell or even Underhill's second half display for me were more impressive, Brown was solid.
Ref constantly pinged England, made sure England onside, yet the welsh stand off-side (which if you break the line can be advantage) and allowed them to fly off their feet at every break down. It was frustrating to watch, he was determined to stop play it seemed.
Welsh unlucky with dis allowed try.
I have not yet seen it all on TV so may change some views.
It’s a shame they didn’t print a 10 frame sequence, as I’m sure you could flip from try/no try depending on which one you were viewing.
The TMO had the videos only to base his review on, and from those it does look like he got it wrong.
But anyway, it’s done and dusted, nothing will change now.
They say these things balance themselves out over time.
Your wish is my...something:
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IMO: At #3 both players contact the ball...while it's in the air...and 'bat' it down towards the ground. Anscombe also knocks it sideways, away from him, so that by #5/#6 when the ball contacts the ground his hand is alongside and touching it with only a finger and thumb (at best). Note that between #6 and #7 the ball appears to rise as though rebounding into Watson's widespread hands (I it may be simply sliding along and rotating a little).
I don't think there was enough evidence there to award the try, hence the TMO's decision.
Galtland's comment:
"They fly a guy over from New Zealand to be TMO and he has one big call to make and unfortunately I think he's made a terrible mistake and at this level I think that's pretty disappointing."
...is (IMO) understandable in the heat of the moment, unnecessary after the game and inappropriate on live national TV.
My gut feeling at the time was try but the more you see it the more difficult it is to say. Happy with the England win. Think Underhill needs to start and shift Robshaw to 6 as not sure Lawes has had a massive impact at 6 and would bring Teo back in.
He can’t really be said to be in control of the ball, can he?
It is likely that there was a time when the ball was in contact of both ground and Anscombe’s hand together. However not only was there no control of the ball but at the same time it was also in contact with Watson’s hand and he had arguably more control on it.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
At that point beyond the try line, bearing in mind they were both going for a loose ball, you only need downward pressure on it for it to be a try.
Untitled by iaintookey, on Flickr
For what it’s worth, and that’s nothing after the game, the commentators in the build up to Scotland vs France also think it was a try.
Those are the breaks, as they say, and England deserved the win so it’s difficult to feel too bad about it. Wales got a try awarded against Scotland, the build up to which arguably had a forward pass in it.
Last edited by Tooks; 11th February 2018 at 15:50.
Is that "pressing down on it"? That is the wording, no mention of 'control' except, perhaps by implication. Even if it is enough to satisfy the laws, that would be difficult to determine from the side view that (I think) the TMO had to work from. A close call, in either case.
So basically this afternoon’s game is reinforcing the growing understanding that Scotland are, indeed, shite. What happened to the side that beat the Aussies and ran the ABs close?
France looking a better outfit than people are giving them credit for. England would do very well to win in Paris
Edited to say ha! Spoke too soon. Much better from Scotland
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Last edited by ryanb741; 11th February 2018 at 16:34.
Agreed, very close!
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