Reply With QuoteIWC speedmaster!! A new one for me!Originally Posted by bwest76
I went in one branch and asked to see a speedmaster the assistant showed me a seamaster,she didn’t know the difference.
I also asked to see some IWC she said they didn’t have any IWC speedmasters in stock at the moment,being kind I didn’t say anything.
Personally I wouldn’t hold my breath expecting anyone knowledgeable to sort it out.
IWC speedmaster!! A new one for me!
It’s a new one for everyone.
Doesn't surprise me!
I went in there to ask about the Tudor Pelagos and the lady laughed and said "no chance there's a 2 year waiting list". I had to take her outside and show her the 3 in the window! This was when some of the retailers were discounting the old ETA one. I asked if they had wind of it potentially happening (as they'd had a 2 liner for ages) she got some young lad out who told me nobody would discount them (I'd actually been at a retailer doing just that with the eta models they'd had for ages) and they certainly wouldn't be. He went on to tell me he could sell it for more than retail soon as everyone wants them.
This may get me flamed.....but......I would have to kind of agree that an expert needs to assess the performance of the watch, which clearly Goldsmiths aren't equipped in terms of skill or knowledge to do. I can't see how else they could conclusively prove that the watch is or isn't doing. And for that, it needs to be the manufacturer.
All they see is someone returning a worn watch with claims of poor performance which they cannot prove. They could be up against a chancer or someone with buyers remorse (which I am not suggesting for a second you are), so they need to do their due diligence and get the thumbs up from the manufacturer that the watch is faulty. After that is done, happy days.
I wouldn't tell you what to do, but I'd let them send it off. Having said that, I'd insist on a new watch once the faults were proven and it would not be pleasant if they were to refuse.
OP, I feel your pain and had a similar situation back in 2012.
My wife bought me a Zenith Elite Captain as a wedding gift and it quickly became apparent that it wouldn't sustain itself through the night, often stopping at 3am. I think I wrote about it on here at the time. I took it back to Fraser Hart in St Paul's where it came from and of course the first thing they did was manually wind it up, despite me explaining that the problem was with the auto-wind function.
Two days later I returned and asked that it be sent to Zenith UK. Some time later it was back, and no different. So back to Zenith UK again, and returned again still not right.
To be fair Fraser Hart then offered to replace it, but I rejected that option partly due to it having been a gift and been with me on my wedding day but also because they said that in replacing the watch what they actually meant was they would only replace the head. The strap would be swapped out for my used one. The logic was sound but I feared my original watch would go back in the window, still with the fault but wearing a nice new strap, to be bought by somebody none the wiser.
So in the end I got in touch with Zenith in Switzerland, explained the scenario, and they told me to send it to them. There was then a merry dance as they wouldn't allow me to send it directly but it had to go via Fraser Hart and I had visions of it getting directed to the UK service centre again.
But finally on the third attempt it came back and works as you'd expect. In the end it turned out to be a fault with the auto-wind clutch and presumably therefore a simple fix. I am sure there's now a bit of backlash when moving the hands that wasn't there before, but life goes on. It has dented my confidence in the brand though, sadly.
ooooops, they have done another "test".
No sufficient information was given. they just said "manually wound it in the morning but not in the evening. checked in the following morning and it was functioning as expected". how many times did they wind it? what was the test for? they didn't say.
This is from their customer relations in HQ, "on behalf of Goldsmiths".
OK, they "won". I have decided not to let them mess around my watch anymore. Now I have to go for holiday without my watch anyway. So, off to Omega for further assessment.
No explanation for how the test was messed up. No apology.
Byebye, Goldsmiths.
Last edited by xlii; 14th December 2017 at 08:45.
Sending it to Omega for further assessment is no problem but I was expecting an explanation (and an apology) for how the test was messed up - call me stubborn...
I was also hoping if they could do a test properly and found a fault, I could get a replacement and wear my watch when away for holiday...
OK. No hope. they have done another meaningless "test"...
So, off to Omega for assessment.
I can understand how you felt.
Hope it won't take me three attempts to get things sorted out...
Last edited by xlii; 14th December 2017 at 09:00.
when I brought the watch in for replacement, I thought the store would put it on a watch winder for the test. the lady told me "we have to wear it"... I was a bit surprised but didn't say anything, they had to do their test anyway. then, they did a test for "accuracy"...
but I have learned from this. in future, when buying a new watch, put it on watch winder for one or two weeks before wearing. because they refuse a refund if you have worn it. Contacting Retailer ADR is an option but personally I can't afford to the time and energy.
Last edited by xlii; 14th December 2017 at 09:18.
I had the same symptoms with a LIV Genesis watch (microbrand containing a Sellita SW200-1 movement) that I picked up as faulty on eBay - worked if hand-wound but randomly stopped if left to auto-wind while I was wearing it.
Looking through the display back, it didn't seem that the rotor was moving as freely as I would have expected, so I popped the back off for a look - turns out that the screw holding the rotor in place had worked loose and so the rotor was effectively touching the case back when it was spinning (and so not providing sufficient power to keep it running) - a quick tighten of the screw and the watch has run perfectly ever since.....
Seems to me that Goldsmiths are being utterly useless both in their diagnosis of the problem and in their customer service. Push for a refund and take your business elsewhere.
They don't give a refund if you have worn it, though it says on the receipt that refund is guaranteed within 14 days, providing that it is in pristine condition. I am a foreigner so I googled the definition for "pristine", it means "new or like new". but they said "you have worn it"...
I could have contacted the Retailer ADR, as they suggested, but after a little bit research on Retailer ADR and small claim court, my conclusion is that customers are not protected very well in this country. I can't afford to the time and energy, so it is off to Omega for assessment now. .
Last edited by xlii; 14th December 2017 at 09:30.
I wandered into a shop in Southampton yesterday to pick up a copy of the Omega magazine and only realised it was a Goldsmiths when the salesman wouldn't stop talking at me after I asked him if they had a Jack Heuer Autavia for me to look at. Apparently the standard black dial reissue is impossible to get hold of, they sell at profit (anything up to £1,000!) and Tudor is the hottest brand to invest in right now (typically £500 increase in value as soon as you buy a watch). He pulled a blue Pelagos out of the cabinet and told me how hard it was to get hold of one (?!). And so on. I hope I wasn't too rude when I told him I had to leave. Still, at least it wasn't the other salesman who I overheard spending some time telling a customer vintage watches are no good as the parts wear out and can't be replaced, before the customer removed his vintage watch from his wrist.
I bet they sell huge numbers of watches.
"A man of little significance"
Try Citizen's Advice:
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/co...ing-standards/
Seems to me that an automatic watch that doesn't operate as an automatic watch shouldn't be considered as of merchantable quality - don't think Goldsmiths have a leg to stand on legally if they deny you a refund...
Really? I think the UK has some of the strongest Consumer laws. You just don't seem willing to use them. If you don't wish to spend 'time and energy' that's your choice. Goldsmiths rely on that approach. And by the way, having used them, small claims courts really work.
Why ask the forum for advice if you are just going to do what Goldsmiths tell you?
They said my report didn't count, they had done two very intelligent tests and found no fault. they said if I wanted a refund based on the claim for faulty product, it had to be confirmed by the assessment from the manufacturer.
If I asked for a refund based on "guaranteed in 14 days providing it is in pristine condition", they said "you have worn it"...
:)
no offence to this country. I've been in this country for many years, first as a student and then started a job, and I love this country.
My research was far from thorough. Probably I missed something. If it goes to small claim court, I will win the case but it seems the claimant has to pay the court fee etc. am I right? :)
Yes, you would pay, but it's a very small fee.
Also. How do you know you would win, if they prove there is no fault for example.
I think I can win the case based on the refund policy printed on the receipt "refund is guaranteed in 14 days providing it is in pristine condition". The watch is certainly in pristine condition, this is confirmed in the receipt that they gave me when taking the watch back for test, "new, no scratches". Or how do you define "pristine"?
The 'claimant' pays an initial fee, which providing you win the case will be given back to you as ''costs'' which the other party pays.
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
two very intelligent tests? I might of missed it but scanning the thread I can't see any mention of auto winding being tested properly, you tested it on your wrist, which is subjective due to the amount of movement being unquantifiable, Goldsmiths manually wound it and if I read correctly - had a member of staff wear it for a day (that's a fail right there - 'I'm sorry, my watch is no longer in the pristine condition I returned it in due to your staff member wearing it' - that's their rules applied back on them).
at the very least, your watch and an identical new one should be allowed to run down, or have the reserve power let down by a qualified technician
both watches should then be placed on a winder for the same length of time at the same speed
both watches should then be left, unmoved in the same position until they have both wound down
Compare the length of time they both ran for.
Far quicker and easier to test the self-winding with a cheap timegrapher! Look for the increasing amplitude.
My suggested wearer test would've given the OP some good information within a couple of days too.
A repairer would whip the back off, and move the rotor with a piece of Rodico whilst looking closely to see whether the watch was actually winding or not. Takes a few minutes.
My guess is that the watch is either OK or the reverser's sticking. It's rare to have an auto-wind problem on a new one of these.
Paul
Paul
Omega's customer service is excellent. But probably I missed it...
They responded to my initial email immediately and then two days later, replied again and offered to contact the store to take the watch back for assessment - well, I was still unhappy with Goldsmiths' refusal to admit that their test was meaningless (not to say apologise for that), so I said I would still want an explanation from Goldsmiths before agreeing for Goldsmiths to send it back...
Last edited by xlii; 14th December 2017 at 12:56.
If you've decided to let Omega take a look at it they'll send you prepaid and insured packaging to your home address if you are insistent on not trusting Goldsmiths. They will also send you an online Repair Number that you can monitor
The watch is with Goldsmiths so I guess I will let them send it back but insist to see the reports from Omega.
If you have chosen to send it back to Omega you will now get your watch back working properly. I wouldn't want Goldsmiths involved anymore.
As has been said, Omega customer services and service centres are excellent and are very easy to deal with yourself.
I understand the difficulty with the language, and the possible frustration about the whole thing. But will you at least listen to what people tell you to do? You're doing exactly what is against your best interest, at every single step you take.
I really cannot understand that.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
All I can say is teen hours should wind an auto in my opinion. At least from my experience.
I buy a lot of watches that are posted to me, never fails to amaise me how many can arrive after 4-5 days and will still be running and displaying the correct time. I don’t know how much they move around in transit but obviously enough to wind them.
This is a new one. Omega do repair, they can't offer a replacement.
I contacted Omega before bringing it back to Goldsmiths, they said since you had got it for five days only, you'd better bring it back to the store for replacement. they deal with repairs after having purchased for one month.
This probably confirms there is a self-winding issue with this one. I travelled an hour to take it back by bus and it was not moving at that time.
Hmmm, let me have another think then. Do you think it is best to contact the Retailer ADR?
I understand it's difficult. There is a saying in French that it's not the advisors who foot the bill at the end so you must do as you choose.
But it is easy to tell Omega you have completely lost confidence in the retailer and ask them for an alternative solution.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
I gave you the definition of pristine. It means "in its original state". Did they size the bracelet and take off the plastic? That's not the original state.
If that is the case then why are Goldsmiths offering to send it back to Omega. Either they are sure it's ok or not.
If you are happy to keep this watch forget about Goldsmiths, ring Omega customer services on 02380 646850 and tell them what has happened. Ask if they can send you a pre paid envelope to send your watch back for a warranty repair as you think that there may be a problem with the movement and your retailer is refusing to acknowledge this.
I can't see them refusing to do this.
Edit.
Sorry, that read back a little harsh but I would just talk to Omega, explain the situation and ask if they will repair under warranty.
Last edited by Riley; 14th December 2017 at 14:11.
Surely you highlighted this point to Goldsmiths vehemently?
No. Learn and exercise your legally-entitled-to consumer rights, as per the Consumer Rights Act 2015.
https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rig...mer-rights-act – also read the related topics on the right hand side, regarding rejecting faulty goods.
If need be, print out the information provided, and ask for and only deal with the store manager.
No involvement by Omega is required in order for you to exercise these rights, just like Tesco, etc don’t plug in a faulty kettle/toaster/etc to confirm it’s indeed faulty.
Those items are sent back to the manufacturers or distributors, or a contracted service agent to test, and then disposed of via outlet channels or companies that purchase and resell the refurb’d items.
In this regard, it’s none of your concern about who’s left holding the watch afterwards – the law states what you’re entitled to, and you’re collecting a refund/replacement based on that.
If you have put over £150 on your CC or have purchased on credit, then both those avenues will also offer a route to claiming back a refund, under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act.
Just wondered if there was any further update on this?
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