My Speedy Reduced was given a full service 2.5 years ago by Swiss Time Services in Essex (£390) and last week it took a fairly slight knock and whilst visually it's unmarked, it stopped at that time.
I took it back to STS and initially, the technician got it running again whilst I waited and said it was just that the hairspring was caught around something and they wouldn't charge, they'd done it as a goodwill gesture. Needless to say I was very happy!
However, it turned out to have stopped again within 5 mins of me leaving there and I didn't notice until i got home.
Left work early to take it back again and the same thing happened, it stopped whilst he said it was running again.
Basically, he said that all they could do was a full service at a cost of £450 and that was because they are so complicated that they might have to dismantle the whole thing before they find out what is wrong.
I suppose my questions are:
1) Any thoughts or advice?!
2) Has anyone got any experience with a trustworthy independent watchmaker who might be more inclined to a repair?
One thing I'm thinking is that a full service includes a new crystal, crown and pushers which aren't needed and perhaps many other things besides..?
I would appreciate any advice, thanks
I've heard nothing but good reports from STS so I'd be inclined to suggest they are probably right.
Is the speedy reduced not a hybrid movement? Ie a regular time keeping movement with a chrono movement grafted on top? This, I believe, makes them pricey to service and maintain.
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I’ve only had good experiences with STS.
But if you’re losing faith in them; you could try speaking with Simon Freese, who used to be Workshop Manager at STS. He set up on his own within the last two years. He’s Omega trained and knows the brand inside out, he’s also in Essex - so you can probably speak to him face to face.
In fairness to them, if it is not obvious and simple then yes it will have to be disassembled. If the problem is not with the top movement and with the chronograph module, then a service is the most realistic option.
Yet another tale of woe with a Speedmaster Reduced, they really can be troublesome sadly. Many independents won't touch these for the reasons suggested above but Watchguy have done a strip down and service on one so may be persuaded to do another at a significant saving to STS. Failing that, Simon Freese would likely be cheaper if he is prepared to do them, but during his time at STS they would have likely swapped movements out for refurb in Switzerland like Omega themselves do so he might not be all that keen now that avenue is closed to him. Bear in mind his lead time is presently running at 2-3 months as he is rather popular.
Last edited by Padders; 8th December 2017 at 21:40.
Oh and if you do decide to go with STS then I suggest getting in sooner rather than later. Their price for a chrono service rises to £475 for 2018 and £350 for a mech 3-hander.
I had a problem with mine. Leaver arm (I think?) was loose.
sent it to Brendan (Webwatchmaker). All fixed without fuss. I didn’t sense that these pieces are anymore or any less complicated than a standard Chrono. He certainly did charge anything other than his standard rate.
I think the whole “Reduced” thing is talked-up too much as bad.
I`ve just finished servicing one of these, including full strip-down of the chrono module. Yes, they are a bit complicated to work on but not as bad as I`d been led to believe. As with all things Omega parts availability is becoming a problem as wholesaler's stocks dwindle, losing a part from the chrono module is the biggest headache so you have to be v. careful!
Considering STS serviced the watch a couple of years ago I think they could be more accommodating. The watch movement is quite literally in two halves, the main movement is easy to separate from the chrono, it's literally three screws. If the problem turns out to be in the 'main' movement (basically an ETA 2892 with a couple of changes) it's straightforward to fix and I see no reason why they couldn`t do this based on however much work was involved. It'll need fully stripping, but there's no date to worry about and the dial/hands don`t need removing.....it's a fairly easy job! Check how it's running , couple it back to the chrono and check again, if all's well the job's done. If that doesn`t reveal the fault then the chrono module needs stripping and that's a lot more involved, but these guys are doing them regularly so it's not such a big deal.
I suspect STS are told by Omega what they can and can`t do and this removes much of the flexibility. It really is crazy, it may end up needing a complete stripdown but to give the standard 'full service answer' is disappointing. It's possible it won`t need fully stripping, as I`ve just outlined.
I don`t know what the fault will be with this one, it depends how hard it was hit as to how much damage may have been done. Off the top of my head I don`t know what the fault will be.
Paul
Last edited by walkerwek1958; 9th December 2017 at 00:20.
Thanks for all the replies guys.
Paul: thanks for the technical insight into this movement, that's very interesting. I agree, I think STS could be more accommodating, but perhaps they have their hands tied by Omega, as you say. I know I approached them in 2006 about doing its first service when it was 5 y.o. and they said they weren't allowed by Omega to touch watches that young. I don't know if that has changed since then.
NigeG: thanks very much for mentioning Simon Freese. I think I met and had a chat with him when I took it to STS for service in 2015 and he seemed very knowledgable and gave me a great deal of confidence. I will contact Simon and hope he can help although I might have a long wait, as Padders mentioned, his website says there's a 3 month timescale for work to be completed.
Guycord: if Simon can't help, I may well try Webwatchmaker.
I hope to post an update soon!
Don't forget Watchguy. They have definitely stripped one of these inc chrono module and may be prepared to do it again.Originally Posted by The Speedmaster
Okay, I will add him to my list! Thanks
It's an Omega; Omega offer a full repair service. I don't think it costs much more than some of the prices already quoted. They have the parts and the knowledge.
Do you think £550 is a lot? I do on a watch worth £800-1100
A number on the forum are of the opinion that these are approaching £2k these days with a service and b+p. Not sure how or why, but hey.
You can ask what you like, what they sell for is another matter. Bog std black dial ones aren’t that price yet, it’s the Schumacher dial ones which have gained a bit.
Going market rate is about £1.3-£1.5k.
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So in need of service £800-1100 as I said...
Yep, bang on I'd say. :-)
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The OP said he knocked the watch, how is this the watch's fault? Ive had one for over a decade, never had a problem with it. The whole servicing thing is based largely based on stories that went around years ago that people repeat ad nauseam on the internet from people who have no experience of the watch at all. Last time I looked, my watch maker and Omega charge the same price to service this watch as any other chrono. Why do people go on so much about the module in the reduced on one hand and then rave about chronos with the identical set up from brands such as APs, Tudors and watches like the TAG Heuer Monaco Chrono?? I find the obsession with the Speedy reduced quite bizarre.
Last edited by camb66; 9th December 2017 at 21:52.
Umm guess again. I have owned an Omega with this modular chronograph movement thanks. It went to 3 independent repairers with no resolution before finally it went to authorised repairer STS who sorted it. Feel free to tell me again I have no experience but don't be surprised if I consider your next words of wisdom in a similar way to those. The reason I said 'another tail of woe' is because new threads pop up all the time, not 10 years ago but right now, on here and OF with people disappointed that their Speedy Reduced is a bugger to fix and that many independent won't help. Some owners think is it Speedmaster Pro snobbishness that these issues are raised. That isn't the full story...
Last edited by Padders; 9th December 2017 at 22:13.
Sorry, you had some bad luck, this is not the case with the overwhelming majority of owners. Perhaps you were going to the wrong places to get the job done in the first place. My point is for some reason, the only focus of complaints about modular chronos (which are incredibly widely and successfully used in the industry) falls onto the Reduced. Just because you had a problem does not mean the whole thing is rubbish. Which Omega did you own?
Last edited by camb66; 9th December 2017 at 22:19.
No I don't accept that. How do you presume to speak for the majority of owners? The issue with these is the DD chrono module which sits on top of the 2892 movement. No parts (whatsoever) are available for these to independents and as such authorised repair is the only solution if anything at all needs replacement (and the authorised guys swap them out). Some independents will strip and service these but many more, most indeed won't and if you haven't noticed this then you have either been ripped off by someone who only services the 2892 part and left the chrono part be or you have been very lucky found one of the very few who will strip down the DD. Modular chronos were once widely used as they were a cheap and expedient solution, much less so now as better alternatives have emerged. I didn't say they were rubbish but I do maintain that they cause the owner maintenance issues down the line. Many owners ignore or refute this but read around the subject. Many otherwise respected repairers just won't go there. You talk about this being an old predjudice but ironically 10 years ago a new DD module may have been possible for an independent to source. Today it is not.
Last edited by Padders; 9th December 2017 at 22:29.
If all the parts were readily available I’d be happy to work on Speedy Reduced chrono modules all day long! It’s an unusual design but my impression was very favorable, it’s well-made and I think the design is sound.
However, there are some very tiny parts that could easily make a bid for freedom from the workbench, and if that happened the repairer is stuffed because he can’t easily get a replacement! This tends to focus the mind and put the price up, working on a Valjoux is far more relaxing!
TAG use a similar design made (suposedly) by ETA and I can’t find any tech data or service guides for it. I’m led to believe these are different in several ways and consequently are much harder to take apart and reassemble......I’m happy to be corrected if I’m wrong on this point but based on the info I’ve had they are harder to work on.
I don’t see anything wrong with the concept or design, but these movements are frowned upon by the purists. I’m perfectly happy with my own 3510.50 Speedy Reduced, it suits my wrist better than a full-size Moonwatch and it’s similar enough to scratch the same itch......the purists may disagree but as ever I call it how I see it.
Paul
My thoughts exactly. That's why I bought it new in 2001; I think the Pro is a better watch and I wish my wrists were bigger, but hey-ho.
I'm going to see Simon Freese next week, his place is only 16 miles away so I will report back afterwards...
I look forward to hearing what the verdict is, my Speedmaster Reduced gains about about 6 minutes a day. That said, it hasn't seen a service for 7 years although it's probably not had that much wrist time as I only wear it on weekends and in rotation with 3 or 4 others.
That’s one seriously poorly watch! Can’t see how the OP’s outcome will have any bearing on yours, it clearly needs attention and you either pay the Onega SC price or find an indy who can sort it a lot cheaper. Your watch is either seriously magnetised or it’s got a fault in the basic mocement, either way it’s not well.
Having finally had one of these in pieces I’ve got a new-found respect for the design; the offset between the pushers and crown will always look a bit odd but otherwise I think they’re fine. The chrono module is very thin considering how much is crammed in, it’s a nice design albeit fiddly to work on. The aim was to produce a modular chronograph design that would fit in a slim case; this was back n the days whem slim was good...... how priorities change!
I got my Speedy Reduced in 2004 as a long-service gift from work (30 years service), ironically it’s the only quality watch I’ve had from new. List price was around £950 if I remember rightly!
Paul
Verdict in terms of who the OP is using to repair the watch rather than a verdict on what is wrong with the watch. If positive, it's likely that I would use them, as I am very much resigned to the fact that all is not well with it.
It's a perfect size for me and was the second proper watch I bought, so very much a part of the collection. I paid £500 for it in 2006, when it was just 4 years old, which seems a bargain now.
By the way, the use of Dubois-Depraz module to make a chrono out of a 3 hander isn't a particularly recent development. The chrono movement used in the early 1970s Omega Speedsonic hummer chrono took this approach also. It may be useful to know what the likes of Paul W or Keith T who work on those do when confronted with a poorly DD module movement.
My experience with DD modules is limited....and I avoid Hummers because they've never appealed to me.
I had a 1970s Buren 12 on the bench earlier in the year, used in a Bulova mechanical chronograph and some of the Heuer models. This was one of the earlier DD modules and it was easy to take apart, just the lack of parts availability that was a headache. Ironically, I found an excellent Bulova service manual that covered everything, the only drawback was the parts availability.
I think the concept's fine, there are some advantages in separating the chrono from the main movement from a service point of view too. I like the idea of treating both separately, once the main movement's serviced it can be checked independent of the chrono and that helps with problem-solving. There are a couple of 'banana skins' to slip up on but nothing off-putting.
I`m curious to know how the 'ETA' version used in TAG watches differs from Omegas version used in the 3510 Speedy Reduced. I`m surprised to learn that the ETA is significantly worse to work on and supposedly requires a special holder to reassemble, that's something I intend to learn more about because the Omega wasn`t a bad job to do. This is a problem with the internet, assumptions and mythology get repeated and accepted as fact, I`ve been wary of working on the Omega 3220/1140 owing to the reputation they have despite a reliable source telling me they're not at all bad. Is it the same with the ETA module, does it deserve it's reputation for being seriously difficult to reassemble, or is it another example of the internet distorting things.
Paul
Edit: Just had a chat with a guy who worked for TAG Service and he assures me that the ETA module should only be dismantled with the correct moving holder/jig.......that's good enough for me! If I can get hold of the correct item at a reasonable price I`ll do so.
Paul
Last edited by walkerwek1958; 13th December 2017 at 13:20.
I'm delighted to report that I think Simon Freese has fixed the problem! My Speedy Reduced is running again and has been for the last 3 hours +
I went over to see Simon this afternoon and what a very knowledgable and nice man he is. He had a good look and removed many parts then showed me the inside, which I had never seen before. He showed me it running without any of the gears etc in place so that when wound, the hands whizzed round the dial at a rate of knots! Quite cool to see that. He identified this tiny piece (I can't remember its function) that had been dislodged when it took the knock and that had been sticking in one of the gear wheels. STS had got it running for 2 minutes but the sub seconds hand would always stop on '40'
He thinks, but can't be 100% sure at present, that that was the issue. It makes complete sense that it was the issue, however.
And amazingly, he didn't charge me! I was taken aback, but he explained that he would rather do it this way. As he can't be certain the issue is fixed, he can't guarantee his work at present. If it does stop again, then he would take a longer look, it would be a chargeable repair and he would then be happy to guarantee it. Needless to say, I am very happy and thanks again to NigeG for mentioning Simon.
I know where I will be going when it needs a full service or anything else for that matter!
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