Refinished/refurbished watches

[Allwatches]

Hi all

Just wanted to know whether a refinished watch is still touted as authentic in the eyes of service centres, specifically the rolex/tudor service centres (Do they actually have different standards)?

I'm asking this as I am looking to purchase a second hand tudor, but am not an expert by any means to distinguish between an unrefurbished watch with one that has been modified.

Understand that theres a difference between original, refurbished, and not original (that it can be "original" and refurbished). Furthermore, if a watch is deemed original, does that mean after a service if one piece of a movement is changed, then that would discount it as being not original in the eyes of a collector?

Thanks all!

[Wallasey Runner]

It's relatively straight forward, all watches will have something replaced and the case and bracelet worked on during a service. A brand new Tudor or Rolex will be crisp with clearly defined bevel edges running down the lugs. Over time these can get polished out and that's why people get a bit sniffy about over polishing. You just need to ensure the lugs look right.

With regards to parts, particularly on an older watch people want the dial, hands, insert to be original. The bracelet being changed is not really an issue and the crown devides opinion, if the crown needs replacing to keep the Watch functioning then I say fair enough, but to others they will hunt for a watch that retains its original crown. The crystal will also get changed on older watches.

It all depends on age, a 5-10 year old should be okay, but start looking at 20+ year olds and you have to do your homework and examine the Watch to see what has been service replaced. Not all dealers will give you these details.

If you find a watch, take a few images and post them on here, plenty of people will tell you if there is anything wrong.

[walkerwek1958]

A watch that's refinished properly loses very little in terms of sharp edges etc. Sadly, many haven`t been refinished carefully, beware of the 'melting chocolate' look and lugs that look thinner than they should.

I refinished my 16234 Datejust earlier this year, it needed work because the bozo who changed the dial years ago marked the lugs. I was surprised how little metal there is to go at, even taking great care I had to be careful not to take any more metal off than the absolute minimum to get the marks out. This can only be done by hand in my opinion, that takes time, time costs money...........that's why many watches get whacked against a polishing wheel and ruined.

No simple answer to the question, you need to develop an eye for these things. The only way to become good at assessing watches is by assessing watches, reading on the internet and looking at pictures will only get you so far. You have to get your hands on them.

Paul

[Allwatches]

Great, thank you for the responses! They are very helpful. I will try to take some pictures and share online.

I understand that a watch that has non-genuine parts would not be accepted for servicing by rolex service centre, but what about a watch that has had its dial/hands refinished?

Thanks
Kevin

[Omegamanic]

It's not true that it would not be accepted for service.

They may or may not. They would however replace any non-original part.

They have serviced older watches that have had dials relumed - so I guess it depends on whether they looked original on an original Rolex dial etc.

[Old Father Time]

As has been said previously the issue with a refinished watch is the loss of shape that can result. If you have your watch serviced by Rolex, Omega etc they will generally polish it which is why it is better to have vintage watches serviced by independent specialists.

There is of course an irony that as collectors we want second hand and vintage watches in original condition, but we also want them to look brand new,

[knw101]

A watch that's refinished properly loses very little in terms of sharp edges etc. Sadly, many haven`t been refinished carefully, beware of the 'melting chocolate' look and lugs that look thinner than they should.

I refinished my 16234 Datejust earlier this year, it needed work because the bozo who changed the dial years ago marked the lugs. I was surprised how little metal there is to go at, even taking great care I had to be careful not to take any more metal off than the absolute minimum to get the marks out. This can only be done by hand in my opinion, that takes time, time costs money...........that's why many watches get whacked against a polishing wheel and ruined.

No simple answer to the question, you need to develop an eye for these things. The only way to become good at assessing watches is by assessing watches, reading on the internet and looking at pictures will only get you so far. You have to get your hands on them.

Paul

What this man said. In the right hands, a re-polished case needn't ruin the watch. Paul polished a battered and bruised Omega Chronostop a while ago for me ... its amazing what can be done!

[walkerwek1958]

As has been said previously the issue with a refinished watch is the loss of shape that can result. If you have your watch serviced by Rolex, Omega etc they will generally polish it which is why it is better to have vintage watches serviced by independent specialists.

There is of course an irony that as collectors we want second hand and vintage watches in original condition, but we also want them to look brand new,

There’s no reason why you can’t have a watch serviced by Rolex, Omega etc and specify thst you don’t want any refinishing work done. However, the manufacturer’s service centres are usually the very best at doing refinishing work correctly so to me it makes sense to let them do so unless there’s a good reason not to. The vintage Rolex Sub brigade would definitely not want their watches refinishing but for the majority it’s the right thing to do provided it’s done correctly.

I think it’s possible to have a watch that looks original and still get it refinished to look as the manufacturer ( and original buyer) intended it to, the key is to buy the right example that has the potential to do this. A case that’s heavily battered will never look like new again, it can generally be improved but sometimes the damage can’t be removed. One or two isolated deep dings could be laser welded and refinished but that starts getting expensive and few people can do it. I looked into the cost of the equipment and soon decided against investing! Likewise with dials, a good original dial with light ageing will always be desirable but there’s little virtue in a dial that’s deteriorated to a point where it’s an eyesore.

It frustrates me that refinishing is getting a bad name. I’m the first to condemn a poorly refinished watch that’s been ruined but I do think the generalisation that unpolished watches are deemed more desirable is unhealthy and misleading. The internet doesn’t help, people read comments from others and that becomes the accepted wisdom; far better to use your own common sense and judgement in my opinion but you do need the experience to know what you’re looking at. One man’s patina us another mans scruffy mess, although I sometimes think there’s almost a growing aversion to anything that looks sharp and smart because it’s been restored. Shabby chic does nothing for me, never has and never will.

Paul

[knw101]

Wish we had some before and after photos of the Omega you did for me...

There’s no reason why you can’t have a watch serviced by Rolex, Omega etc and specify thst you don’t want any refinishing work done. However, the manufacturer’s service centres are usually the very best at doing refinishing work correctly so to me it makes sense to let them do so unless there’s a good reason not to. The vintage Rolex Sub brigade would definitely not want their watches refinishing but for the majority it’s the right thing to do provided it’s done correctly.

I think it’s possible to have a watch that looks original and still get it refinished to look as the manufacturer ( and original buyer) intended it to, the key is to buy the right example that has the potential to do this. A case that’s heavily battered will never look like new again, it can generally be improved but sometimes the damage can’t be removed. One or two isolated deep dings could be laser welded and refinished but that starts getting expensive and few people can do it. I looked into the cost of the equipment and soon decided against investing! Likewise with dials, a good original dial with light ageing will always be desirable but there’s little virtue in a dial that’s deteriorated to a point where it’s an eyesore.

It frustrates me that refinishing is getting a bad name. I’m the first to condemn a poorly refinished watch that’s been ruined but I do think the generalisation that unpolished watches are deemed more desirable is unhealthy and misleading. The internet doesn’t help, people read comments from others and that becomes the accepted wisdom; far better to use your own common sense and judgement in my opinion but you do need the experience to know what you’re looking at. One man’s patina us another mans scruffy mess, although I sometimes think there’s almost a growing aversion to anything that looks sharp and smart because it’s been restored. Shabby chic does nothing for me, never has and never will.

Paul

[Allwatches]

It's not true that it would not be accepted for service.

They may or may not. They would however replace any non-original part.

They have serviced older watches that have had dials relumed - so I guess it depends on whether they looked original on an original Rolex dial etc.

Thanks, I think my biggest worry is that the dial and the hands have been relumed or have been refinished at some point! I will see if i can get some photos and post it up tomorrow.

Thanks!

[autumnwind]

I think the most important parts of the watch in order of priority for a collector are :

Dial > hands = bezel ( depending on model and vintage heritage) > original case > period correct bracelet > period correct endlinks > original crystal.

Just my opinion and what I kinda use to assess pieces, but obviously this can diverge considerably based on the model , but in all cases I think the dial is the most important component.



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