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Thread: The Ashes 2017/2018

  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by AndyMilts View Post
    We are getting a batting lesson, Smith is class
    Not just batting - it painfully makes aware that our attack outside of England is not capable of taking 20 wickets. We said before the tour this squad would struggle with the lack of pace and so it has been. It is time to start rebuilding our bowling attack.

    It also seems clear that Moeen isn't fit - he shouldn't be playing, yet again shows lack of trust in any other slow/spin bowlers.

  2. #102
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    Australia bat through to lunch or just after leaving us 250 just to draw level...Aussie bowlers nice and fresh and English batters tired from a few days in the field.

    Can’t really see this turning into anything other than another defeat. Really need Root and Cook to stand up and be counted.

    Think Australia’s highest innings total is 750ish. Wonder if they’ll go for that

  3. #103
    Grand Master Glamdring's Avatar
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    Anderson and Broad are not the right guys for this pitch, not as front line. Anderson is nearing the end of his career, neither is getting the ball to move at all and are reaching 80mph, whereas the Aussies are bringing in new blood that can reach 90mph.
    Arguably Cook should have stayed as captain; he was a tactician. It's always a compromise with England. I'm not convinced the coaching staff are up to it either. If ever we stood a chance of beating Oz on their home ground it's now, when they're building up a new team. But no. We can't do it. There is, always has been, something fundamentally wrong with the England's team attitude to the game.

  4. #104
    Craftsman halfpasttwothirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadgerUK View Post
    England are gutless - no heart or fight.
    That has got to come back to the captain.

    Lyons said the Aussies would finish careers - Anderson and Broad are finished, Cook is finished.
    Root should be finished as captain.
    Could not agree more!

    In interview, I have never heard anyone as wet as Root.
    Last edited by halfpasttwothirty; 16th December 2017 at 13:02.

  5. #105
    It all seems so long ago:


  6. #106
    Craftsman halfpasttwothirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backward point View Post
    It all seems so long ago:

    Aah memories...

    Back to reality and TAXI FOR COOK!

  7. #107
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    Oh dear...



    Edit: And the rain gets a big cheer...
    Last edited by PickleB; 17th December 2017 at 09:48.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by PickleB View Post
    Oh dear...



    Edit: And the rain gets a big cheer...
    I love rain!
    Especially when it's heavy on a Monday.

  9. #109
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    Shocking

    as someone has said on another Forum

    Cook should enter Strictly Come Dancing to regain the ability to move his feet

  10. #110
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by halfpasttwothirty View Post
    I love rain!
    Especially when it's heavy on a Monday.

    I don't think your luck is in today:



  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by PickleB View Post
    I don't think your luck is in today:


    Meanwhile, 2000+ miles from Brisbane...



    So, likely to be a delayed start but a full afternoon's play.

    (obviously I'm deluded to think we can bat through a full afternoon)
    Last edited by MakeColdplayHistory; 17th December 2017 at 11:18.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by PickleB View Post
    I don't think your luck is in today:


    Yes, I wish mate. It's sweltering here at the moment.

    Hopefully tomorrow in Perth though.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by MakeColdplayHistory View Post
    Meanwhile, 2000+ miles from Brisbane...
    Was I being too polite?

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadgerUK View Post
    England are gutless - no heart or fight.
    That has got to come back to the captain.

    Lyons said the Aussies would finish careers - Anderson and Broad are finished, Cook is finished.
    Root should be finished as captain.
    It certainly feels that way, although there have been a few standouts, and I'm glad I didn't treat myself to a ticket yesterday, even though it's the last test at the WACA. You keep hoping and wanting a real fight from England but it rarely seems to materialise here in Oz. I popped out when we were 4/356 I think it was and then came home to find we were all out for 403!!!??? We should have been 450-500 quite comfortably. I predict 5-0 unless we are helped by the very unusual weather here in Perth.

  15. #115
    Grand Master Glamdring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stix View Post
    It certainly feels that way, although there have been a few standouts, and I'm glad I didn't treat myself to a ticket yesterday, even though it's the last test at the WACA. You keep hoping and wanting a real fight from England but it rarely seems to materialise here in Oz. I popped out when we were 4/356 I think it was and then came home to find we were all out for 403!!!??? We should have been 450-500 quite comfortably. I predict 5-0 unless we are helped by the very unusual weather here in Perth.
    The rain has happened before. I've been watching so long now that I remember times when Oz have been saved by their own rain. I was cross at the time!

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glamdring View Post
    The rain has happened before. I've been watching so long now that I remember times when Oz have been saved by their own rain. I was cross at the time!
    I'm sure but as Clark pointed out, he can't remember rain ever at Perth and I can understand what he means now. Let's hope it works in our favour.

  17. #117
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MakeColdplayHistory View Post
    Meanwhile, 2000+ miles from Brisbane...

    ...image...

    So, likely to be a delayed start but a full afternoon's play.

    (obviously I'm deluded to think we can bat through a full afternoon)

    I can see that image on my tablet but it doesn't show on my PC. It case that's the same for anyone else, this is similar:





    ...but not the quite the same. Maybe an interrupted afternoon's play?

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by PickleB View Post
    I can see that image on my tablet but it doesn't show on my PC. It case that's the same for anyone else, this is similar:




    ...but not the quite the same. Maybe an interrupted afternoon's play?
    This site is very accurate for local weather:

    http://www.bom.gov.au/wa/forecasts/perth.shtml

  19. #119
    Craftsman halfpasttwothirty's Avatar
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    Perth groundsmen, you should have gone to shitecovers.com...

  20. #120
    Craftsman halfpasttwothirty's Avatar
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    Where are the spectators?

  21. #121
    Master Grandiloquence's Avatar
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    Game over.

  22. #122
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    Glad it's all over. Sometimes need the pain to enjoy the wins.

    Sent from my Redmi Note 4 using Tapatalk

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by RABbit View Post
    Innings defeat, anyone?


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  24. #124
    Craftsman halfpasttwothirty's Avatar
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    Cook had better not do a Graeme Swann.

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by halfpasttwothirty View Post
    Cook had better not do a Graeme Swann.
    I still find it hard to forgive Swann for that, what a totally selfish and unsportsman-like act.

  26. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by vagabond View Post
    I still find it hard to forgive Swann for that, what a totally selfish and unsportsman-like act.
    I loved watching Swann bowl, but when he did that...very professional.

  27. #127
    Grand Master Neil.C's Avatar
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    I generally enjoy Test Cricket but I've given up with this lot of losers.
    Cheers,
    Neil.

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  28. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil.C View Post
    I generally enjoy Test Cricket but I've given up with this lot of losers.
    I agree, you don't know whether to laugh or cry

    waiting for the 5 - 0 whitewash .....

  29. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Neil.C View Post
    I generally enjoy Test Cricket but I've given up with this lot of losers.
    We sacrificed progress in Tests to get better at the one day and T20 games. No desire to stay at the crease and go big. Bowling wise we've always been a bit 'slow', but its been shocking how ineffective we've been in this series so far. Actually without Anderson it would read even more horrible - he's still taking the wickets and is economical.

    I still have interest in the other 2 - we need a moral victory boost.

    Thoughts on Root as captain? How much is it influencing his batting? I wasn't a fan of making Root captain and its already taking a toll on him i think. Also remember - we won the toss all 3 times so far, so no excuses on conditions against us.

  30. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by crazyp View Post
    We sacrificed progress in Tests to get better at the one day and T20 games. No desire to stay at the crease and go big. Bowling wise we've always been a bit 'slow', but its been shocking how ineffective we've been in this series so far. Actually without Anderson it would read even more horrible - he's still taking the wickets and is economical.

    I still have interest in the other 2 - we need a moral victory boost.

    Thoughts on Root as captain? How much is it influencing his batting? I wasn't a fan of making Root captain and its already taking a toll on him i think. Also remember - we won the toss all 3 times so far, so no excuses on conditions against us.
    I agree with everything you say. We have become better at the white-ball game, and that is where the interest and the money is now. The mentality of the game has changed, the young players coming through are skilled in the art of "going big" but we're unlikely to breed too many in the mould of Tavare and Boycott.

    We do, however, have players such as Jonny Bairstow, Ben Stokes, Joe Root, Jos Buttler, Alex Hales and Jason Roy who can provide one of the strongest batting lineups in limited over cricket, and in theory should be able to do the same in Tests. Jos Buttler and Jonny Bairstow are interchageable, and both can field, so why aren't we playing both of them?

    The current problem is that the batsmen have failed, so the bowlers haven't got free rein to do anything other than bowl defensively. We've lost our best fast bowling coach of recent years (Otis Gibson) and we don't have a spinner with the menace of Graeme Swann, although Moeen has developed well over the last couple of years. Apart from Stokes and Tymal Mills (who can only play T20), we don't have any bowlers who can consistently hit 85mph+, and in 2019 we have an Ashes test at Old Trafford, the nearest wicket in England to the one at the WACA. So we have two years to find a couple of young tyros who can bowl 90mph bouncers. Or 90mph inswinging Yorkers. Either will do. Of course, fast bowlers injure themselves a lot, and we've been without Jake Ball, Mark Wood, Steve Finn and Reece Topley, any two of which could fulfil the above criteria.

    On the matter of Root and the captaincy, I've mentioned before that we seem to have a habit of burdening our best player with the captaincy, and then being surprised when their game goes downhill. Back in 1981 England brought in a very average batsman with a reputation as a tactician and motivator as captain, and look how that ended.

    That man was Mike Brearley.

  31. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Backward point View Post

    That man was Mike Brearley.
    I was discussing this with a work colleague the other day. Think it is a challenge as there are no stand out candidates for the job of captain. Did think they might try Broad or Moeen, rather than Root. He had played the role of joker a lot before and not sure the pressure and demands, sit well with him.

    Steven Finn would have been a strong addition, Mark Wood also I thought would have been worth a gamble. A challenge moving forward as Anderson will be the best England bowler and no one else looks like stepping up.

    They now have a chance to try a few people, Curren, Crane and would be nice to get stokes back. The whole team looks short of confidence.

    Vince looked good today and till he got that complete Jaffa from Starc. I worry that he is the best looking played in the series but keeps playing silly shots, although that delivery would account for anyone.

  32. #132
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    what's happened to the Lancashire lad, Hameed ....... time to give younger players a chance

  33. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by BillN View Post
    what's happened to the Lancashire lad, Hameed ....... time to give younger players a chance
    Poor form and not wanting the lad to be scarred while playing badly against 90mph barrage. His time will come again, he's barely 20 and I think it was a good idea from the selectors.

    I think a few from the Lions tour need to be given a chance for the last two Tests. The Selectors have to start thinking with more vision for the next 5/7 years now.

  34. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazyp View Post
    Poor form and not wanting the lad to be scarred while playing badly against 90mph barrage. His time will come again, he's barely 20 and I think it was a good idea from the selectors.

    I think a few from the Lions tour need to be given a chance for the last two Tests. The Selectors have to start thinking with more vision for the next 5/7 years now.
    I just cannot believe that they have played so badly - there is losing and "losing" ........ plus off the field they have not sparkled with behaviour that you would have expected from the Aussies

    From the reporting it seems like a men versus boys Test series ....... completely mesmerised by Steve Smith and his team

  35. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backward point View Post
    ....On the matter of Root and the captaincy, I've mentioned before that we seem to have a habit of burdening our best player with the captaincy, and then being surprised when their game goes downhill.......
    Whilst I don't disagree with you on this, the Aussies seem to have done it........Border, Taylor, Waugh, Gilchrist, Ponting, Clarke, Smith were/are arguably the best player in team. All seem to have done OK, though it does help when you always seem to have a talented squad to pick from.

  36. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillN View Post
    I just cannot believe that they have played so badly - there is losing and "losing" ........ plus off the field they have not sparkled with behaviour that you would have expected from the Aussies

    From the reporting it seems like a men versus boys Test series ....... completely mesmerised by Steve Smith and his team
    Although the Aussies outshone us easily with the bowling I do think Smith was the ultimate difference - what a player.
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  37. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Neil.C View Post
    Although the Aussies outshone us easily with the bowling I do think Smith was the ultimate difference - what a player.
    Smith was fantastic - but I felt the biggest difference was our senior players not putting in a performance - Cook, Root, Ali and Broad. Woakes, who I thought could have a fantastic impact was highly ineffective, regularly struggling with length.

  38. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillN View Post
    Shocking

    as someone has said on another Forum

    Cook should enter Strictly Come Dancing to regain the ability to move his feet
    Cookie never has used his feet....but now he's not able to use his hands either!

  39. #139
    A century for Cook! And it couldn't have come at a better time. Hopefully it's the return to form that he needed, and we'll see a couple more before the end of the series.

    And debutant Tom Curran gets Steve Smith as his first Test wicket! Is this England's best day of the series so far?

  40. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backward point View Post
    Is this England's best day of the series so far?
    Yes.
    And rather annoyingly I 'slept in' (for me) and didn't get up 'til 6am so only caught the last hour.

  41. #141
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    Let's keep perspective, Australia have finished and are on the beach and around the BBQ for Xmas. One fast bowler injured and one ill.

    It is pointless Cook deciding to make a contribution now, he has let down everybody especially the fans that have traveled. Same goes for Broad.

  42. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by BadgerUK View Post
    Let's keep perspective, Australia have finished and are on the beach and around the BBQ for Xmas. One fast bowler injured and one ill.

    It is pointless Cook deciding to make a contribution now, he has let down everybody especially the fans that have traveled. Same goes for Broad.
    I disagree - each Test match is a battle and IF England win the next two Tests it will be a massive moral victory and show if we started the series better we'd have had a genuine shot of retaining the Ashes.

    Good on Cook - I missed last night as well, but hope we can take a first innings lead for a change.

  43. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadgerUK View Post
    Let's keep perspective, Australia have finished and are on the beach and around the BBQ for Xmas. One fast bowler injured and one ill.

    It is pointless Cook deciding to make a contribution now, he has let down everybody especially the fans that have traveled. Same goes for Broad.
    Not at all - some teams may have that attitude but certainly not the Aussies. They'll want to thrash England 5-0 regardless of the fact that they have won the Ashes already.

    sent by elves while I'm asleep....

  44. #144
    Craftsman halfpasttwothirty's Avatar
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    Malan

    Why did Malan not review that?

  45. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadgerUK View Post
    Let's keep perspective, Australia have finished and are on the beach and around the BBQ for Xmas. One fast bowler injured and one ill.

    It is pointless Cook deciding to make a contribution now, he has let down everybody especially the fans that have traveled. Same goes for Broad.
    There's no doubt the Aussies were gunning for 5-0. So Australia are a bowler down? England have been a man down for the whole series with the loss of Stokes, just lacking someone who could make things happen at times. A critical blow to England's chances of doing well.
    Neither do I see it pointless Cook doing something like this now, he still has miles on the clock and a strong finish for him could be the difference between sticking around or turning it in.

    Not forgetting that it takes character and to show some pride and come back when the series has gone this badly for England so far.

  46. #146
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    How the umpire could see that Khawaja had successfully controlled his catch off of Broad, from that distance, is beyond me. Khawaja even indicated that he wasn't sure that he controlled the catch, so off we went to the 3rd umpire...

  47. #147
    Outstanding by Cook - we need this man for a few more years given the dearth of Test openers in England and really happy for the lad. Vintage Cook. Puzzled over why BOTH Vince and Malan didn't review - I wonder if they even felt the nick?

    The Broad one was a bit odd - I guess on first instinct the umpire could think either way. And then overturning the onfield decision is a bit hard.

    Lets try and stuff the Aussies by an innings and do it again in the fifth Test. What this Test does show that take away one strike bowler and the lack of depth in this Australian team is exposed.

  48. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by crazyp View Post
    Outstanding by Cook - we need this man for a few more years given the dearth of Test openers in England and really happy for the lad. Vintage Cook. Puzzled over why BOTH Vince and Malan didn't review - I wonder if they even felt the nick?

    The Broad one was a bit odd - I guess on first instinct the umpire could think either way. And then overturning the onfield decision is a bit hard.

    Lets try and stuff the Aussies by an innings and do it again in the fifth Test. What this Test does show that take away one strike bowler and the lack of depth in this Australian team is exposed.
    I agree. Cook has lapses in form, but he only ever needs one decent (sometimes ugly) innings to get himself back into nick. And who else could take his place at the top of the order? According to TMS he spent a lot of extra time in the nets since Perth.

    The Khawaja catch. Hmm. There was surely enough doubt for the on-field "soft signal" to be "Not out" which would then place the onus on the third umpire to prove beyond doubt that the catch had been taken. I'm not convinced about the standard of umpiring throughout the series so far, and the ICC needs to take a critical look at the umpires themselves and the review process.

    For both sides the focus is now on 2019. Psychologically, Australia would love a 5-0 whitewash and England would love to get a couple back. In any Test series between the top sides now, home advantage is often the main difference between them.

    Those who think that England are only going to win this Test because Australia's bowling attack has been weakened need to consider the impact of the loss of the Angry Ginger Bloke on England. Stokes is the team's talisman, somebody who can turn a game with a flash of brilliance or just his never-say-die attitude, and without him England have had to play the series with one hand tied behind their collective backs. While the reason for Stokes' absence may not yet have been established - he may have been entirely innocent and protecting somebody who was being attacked - his absence has had a huge impact. I, for one, would like to see him back as soon as possible.

  49. #149
    Grand Master Glamdring's Avatar
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    Why isn't Sky showing it? I pay them enough.

  50. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Glamdring View Post
    Why isn't Sky showing it? I pay them enough.
    You obviously don't, otherwise BT Sport wouldn't have won the bidding war.

    Look on the bright side, though. BT Sport have professional Yorkshire doom-mongers Vaughan and Boycott on their commentary team.

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