Long term - google 'crittall secondary glazing'
Short term - cling film is your friend.
Hi All,
Could really use some advice please. I’ve moved into a lovely new home which is Grade II listed. It has the old single glazed crittle (crittal?) windows.
Here are my two issues:
- Front wooden door let’s a lot of draught in. It’s so bad it may as well be open!
- the single glazed windows also let’s some draught in but the biggest issue with the windows is the condensation. My word, the windows in our bedroom as dripping with water first thing in the morning.
Would anyone know who to tackle these two issues please? Practical tips would be immensely useful, I wish I could just replace the windows with double glazing but apparently English Heritage probably won’t let me (is what I am told by the developer of my property).
Many thanks!
Long term - google 'crittall secondary glazing'
Short term - cling film is your friend.
Good luck everybody. Have a good one.
Dehumidifier....great at keeping your windows and decorating dry.
Doubles as a clothes drier also.
Well until recently I would have suggested Ebac however the last 2 I've had have needed repairing inside their warranty period and have leaked.
The latest one I've had is about 3 years old and is made by delonghi.
B&Q have their own make which are quite good also.
When it's on full chat it can pull out a 5 ltrs of water a day from the air.
Make up frames that roughly fit the window apertures, cover them tightly with film and install them leaving a two inch gap between them and the existing glazing. Looks shit but will keep you warm(er). Ideal stopgap seeing as the tabloids are screaming about the third ice age coming next week .
Good luck everybody. Have a good one.
When using a dehumidifier, make sure the room is fairly well sealed (no windows, doors open etc) and withdraw any sources of moisture from the room (eg recently watered plants, vases of flowers, mugs of tea etc) before switching on.
Thats my top tips for the day. Im off for a lie down.
Good luck everybody. Have a good one.
A loft fan? Pumps dry air from the loft into home pushing out moisture, sounds daft but evidently they work, it may be colder air but because the moisture content is lower it will feel a bit warmer.
Ps for the front door get a rising portiere rod pole and a thick velvet curtain.
Good luck everybody. Have a good one.
We have second hand dehumidifier in our bedroom- can't believe the amount of water it removed- our bay window seems to be soaking each morning
You can get kits that contain double sided tape and a film that you cut to shape and then attach using the tape. You then use a hair drier to tighten it to fit. Works really well as we used it on our metal frame landing window for years. You can then remove in the summer and fit afresh as required. Though a lot of windows may get a bit pricey each year.
Thanks a lot for the advice all, very grateful. Will look into a dehumifier. Only off-putting thing is potential noise generated from it - we are light sleepers 😱
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Great, will look into it thanks.
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Which one do you have?
We're grade 2 listed too and have secondary glazing. It works well enough. Certainly the 1 window that is single glazed gets lots of condensation but the others don't. You can now get double glazed units for listed properties it will depend on your design but it would be worth investigating if you were considering changing the actual windows. I very much doubt it will be even reasonably priced!
You do need some airflow in old buildings so don't seal it up tight.
Last edited by DavidL; 20th November 2017 at 00:20.
It’ll be a horrendously expensive exercise but I understand that double glazed Crittal style windows are now available with a thermal break for conservation use. I have some restored originals and some modern reproductions (normal, cold and single glazed) on a couple of my buildings in Malta. They are much more attractive than any modern plastic window but better suited to our climate than yours.
You can seal up the windows but expect the vapour from your breath to condense out on the next coldest surface which could be a wall/ceiling corner. At least the window condensation can be collected/contained.
Buildings need ventilation. There are a lot of people renting, who complain about landlords not fixing damp/mould, when in fact - it is the tennants sealing up all the drafts and keeping windows closed - then drying out clothes in the house etc.........
The dehumidifier route may be necessary.
Al
Have a look at positive input ventilation.
Essentially it’s a low speed fan mounted in the loft that maintains a positive pressure in the house, pushing humid air out via natural leak points.
If you decide to buy a dehumidifier I'd recommend an EcoAir dessicant dehumidifier. We've had one for 3 years and works really well. They're a lot quieter and operate better at lower temperatures than the compressor types although do use a bit more energy (which of course isn't wasted and will add a bit of heat to the room/house).
Karcher window vac will suck up the condensation on windows in seconds, I use ours to wipe down the shower takes seconds.
I don't have or need a positive pressure pump as I have triple glazing and have never had any condensation form apart from when boiling pans in the kitchen but everyone I know who has had one fitted has enthused about how well they cut down the condensation and made for a more comfortable home. They are cheap to run too.
Leaving the windows open is just letting cold air in and lowering the temperature which lowers the dew point. A positive pressure fan is pumping in warmer (than outside) and dryer air.
Open windows don't exactly help draughts either.
The single pane glass at say 5-10c will still condense out the suspended vapour, no matter what the bedroom temp is (within reason).
Any house of that age is going be naturally ventilated anyway.
Its only recent houses, or houses that have been recently renovated that are anywhere near airtight.
Geezer says in his OP his front door is leaking like a sieve anyway.
Good luck everybody. Have a good one.
Many thanks again for everyone’s input.
I forgot the mention that the developers have recommended the installation of air bricks. Does anyone know what that means and whether that’s a good idea?
Its just a brick with holes that increases airflow.
Good luck everybody. Have a good one.
sorry, should be below dpc. i think. I'm tired. need to go to bed.
Good luck everybody. Have a good one.
Condensation is predominantly a ventilation issue rather than a heating issue. What's the age and floor construction of the house?
You have to figure out where the moisture is coming from. How many people live in the house?
There are potentially lots of contributing factors. Long hot showers with no bathroom window open. Boiling veg in the kitchen without an extract fan on. A breached dpm causing floor slab and carpet dampness. Sleeping in an unventilated room.
What sort of temperature are the individual rooms? For example my lounge is 17 degrees, bedroom, kitchen and bathroom 16 degrees. I get no condensation issues at all. (I sea-swim all year round and I don't tend to feel the cold.)
As a first step you could get a Brennenstuhl damp detector from Amazon, about £10, and check the moisture content of you carpets (if any) to look for any elevated readings.
^^when we moved in here we had crittalls. I just think that they are particularly prone to moisture gathering via condensation due to the inherent design. the metal frames conduct temperature well and arent a particularly good insulator. Just my 0.02 u value. Crittall windows tend to be large, plus with crittalls the panes are small and the bars often go through the eindoe, compunding the problem of lowering the temp across the inside of the glass. Crittalls look great, but like the rest of modernist influences in building design aren't exactly great for the uk. In a cold winter it was not unknown for their to be ice on the inside of the crittalls in the mornings.
Good luck everybody. Have a good one.
As children in the 70's we regularly had ice inside our bedroom (wooden) windows.
Dehumidifiers don't last, I've used them for the past 13 years and I've had two from Delonghi and ones from B&Q, a desiccant type that was recommended one one of these threads and I'm on a Ebac one at the moment. They all work and all have one thing in common, if used 24/7 they last about 3 years!
I have one of these in the garage and it'll fill a gallon bucket in a day... they do push out a little heat but that helps in the garage. However they're noisy and they get noisier as they get more knackered with age. Ours is three years old and it now has a really bad squeak when starting up but then settles down to a fan like drone... tbh I wouldn't want one in a room I was trying to sleep or watch telly!
In the short term sleep with the bedroom window open and get a Karcher window vac.
Not a long-term solution, but.............
Sort out some sort of catchment trough under the windows, with helicopter tape or whatever you think will work, along the sill - to channel the condensate.
Get a bottle of RainEx and coat the inner surfaces of the panes - the condensate will aglomorate and run from the panes.
The advantage is, that when the water is in the trough - it isn't evaporating so readily back into the atmosphere.
Heck it's a garage so it leaks like a sieve (both air and water) but you can definitely tell when it's been running. :-) Things are defiantly drier in there (the garage) and it doesn't have the dank/damp smell. We only run it in the winter but it really helps. Tried one of the 'compressor' models first of all and it died before the first winter was over. Replaced it with one of the desiccant models for the following winter and it's still going after three winters. However this might turn out to be the last winter before it dies... I'm not convinced the cheapish domestic models are designed to be run 24 hours a day for 3 or 4 months! ;-)
I Use this and slimline boxes on the window ledges.
where I had a cold spot at the top of my stairs I put a curtain pole and a doubled over curtain,leaving the other side as a cold sink.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Kontrol-Moi...ntrol+crystals
Having used dehumidifiers which are expensive to run and noisy we have had one of these for the past 5 years
https://www.juiceelectricalsupplies....AaAl22EALw_wcB
It works brilliantly and you won’t get condensation on the windows or anywher else. There are really no downsides other that the landing does feel slightly cooler. Some FAQ’s here
https://www.dryhomes.net/page/faqs
I have an old dehumidifier. I only use it if i go out the house becuase it's so noisy. But it's amazing how much moisture it sucks iut if the air and the house is alot easier and quicker to heat up once it's done
Good luck everybody. Have a good one.