Reply With QuoteThat’s why they should bring hanging back -we should probably go to the bear pit for this one
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Around the world lots of disgusting inhuman things happening . More close to home today . I was really frustrated probably along with a lot of other people today more so as I have little children . The barbaric news report of the Welsh man who adopted the two year old Elsie and has been convicted of killing her via multiple attacks. I’ve just last week read reports of a man from Wirral who battered his two year old stepson ‘Teddy Tilston’ to death also .
We’ve all read the James bulger , moors murder, Soham murders ..the list is endless .
But I found these latest two touching home and leave me infuriated at the system to which these children found themselves victim to more so at the perpetrators and small comfort to know one is being terrorised in jail already .
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That’s why they should bring hanging back -we should probably go to the bear pit for this one
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Absolutely tragic.
I agree. On both points.Originally Posted by mk1974
And pray tell, how would that have saved the child?
Possibly not in this case but if people knew they would be hung for committing certain crimes it would be a bloody good deterrent !!
But the problem is - how far do you go with that?
Let's say you have a man with the mental age of 12 convicted of murdering an 11 year old girl - would you hang him?
^ Yes.
Bear pit fodder.
mike
Ok - you've just murdered an innocent man ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murd...Lesley_Molseed ) now what?
I was just about to mention Stefan Kiszko.
Thankfully mistakes on that scale are relatively rare.
Not rare enough if you happen to be the innocent dead person.
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
Many that live deserve death, some that die deserve life, can you give it to them? Then be not to eager to deal out death as punishment.
A quote from lord of the rings, not verbatim, memory not what it was.
So by that logic - you’d also have murdered these two women:
“Angela Cannings was jailed for life in 2002 for murdering her two baby sons, but freed the following year after her conviction was overturned on appeal. Cannings from Salisbury, Wiltshire, was convicted of murdering seven-week-old Jason in 1991, and 18-week-old Matthew in 1999. She always maintained the two boys died of Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (Sids) or cot death.
The solicitor Sally Clark was jailed for murdering her two baby sons, and cleared by the appeal court in 2003. The mother, from Wilmslow, Cheshire, had always protested her innocence since being jailed for life in November 1999. She was convicted of smothering 11-week-old Christopher in December 1996 and shaking eight-week-old Harry to death in January 1998. In 2007, she was found dead at her home. Her family said she had never recovered from the ordeal.”
Death is an easy way out for some of these people, I much prefer the life is life jail term staring at 4 walls for the rest of their natural. No TV, just the odd book and a pot to piss in the corner.
Is it worth £40k a year per head to keep them though? I think not.
Boris cost £140k plus expenses.............
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Well if theres money to be saved by killing a few innocent people now and again.
That's like a Nautilus and a Sub date per year. Totes worth it.
He’s quite funny though and so far has managed not to murder or rape.
I was thinking of a cell akin to somewhere in Columbia or Thailand rather than the UK.
There’s crimes committed nowadays with 100% conviction due to dna and forensics,it’s absolutely nailed on ,I’d make them suffer like the victims
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Many children die or suffer terrible trauma each year in the UK at the hands of the very people that should be caring for them. Some get publicised but many do not. Sadly in my profession I see the real impact of 'austerity' and staff cuts on the ability to protect the most vulnerable children in our society. Having said that, there are occasions when you cannot legislate for incidents like this. The Serious Case Review will be interesting....... If anyone wants to depress themselves search for published SCR's involving child deaths or serious abuse within England and Wales over the past few years.
Whilst not very familiar with the case that the OP mentions in Wales, other than what has been reported in the press, the tragedy is that this child (for whatever reason) was adopted which usually means that they have suffered some form of chaotic parenting or trauma prior to being adopted. To be then murdered by your new 'forever daddy' is sickening.
Certainly not worth it.
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
The problem with DNA is often the people doing the analysis and poor evidence handling:
2013, geneticist Michael Coble of the National Institute of Standards and Technology in Gaithersburg, Maryland, set up a hypothetical scenario in which a mix of DNA from several people had been found on a ski mask left at a crime scene after a series of robberies. Coble asked 108 labs across the country to determine whether a separate DNA sample, which he posited had come from a suspect in the robberies, was also part of the mix.*Seventy-three of the labs got it wrong, saying the suspect's DNA was part of the mix when, in fact, it was not. “It’s the Wild West out there,” Coble says. “Too much is left to the analysts’ discretion.”
I've never been much of an 'eye for an eye' type of person, but whenever I read these types of cases I find myself hoping that vengeance is quickly and painfully realised in prison. You beat a little defenceless kid to death, you really have earned an identical fate
He’ll be quite popular inside I think.
No to the death penalty but yes to long jail terms. I also believe anyone who throws acid or other corrosive substances in a person's face should receive a very long jail sentence.
"A man of little significance"
Better then that a hundred innocent people get killed for the sake of one innocent life?
No innocent lives should be lost in an ideal world.
The state contributes to that by not sanctioning execution as a punitive measure.
I think the conversation was going along the lines of the death penalty acting as a deterrent to stop more lives being lost. Ensuring that a murders genes stay out of circulation might also be another supporting factor.
Suggest move thread to BP!!
They have the death penalty in America and Middle East.
You can tell it's a successful deterrent due to the low levels of violence in both.
So if you were the innocent accused, you'd be ok with being put to death?
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
Was just about to post the same comment. When we had the death penalty in the UK it didn't stop people murdering. We are all capable of murder and cruelty but the majority of us can't understand how someone can do such things, thank goodness.
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I believe in justice
I believe in vengeance
I believe in getting the bastard
He’s in jail for many years now. Probably spend most of that time in solitary confinement as many prisoners will be looking to exact retribution upon him for murdering a baby. He’ll spend most of his time looking over his shoulder and near to soiling himself out of fear. He’ll suffer every day just as he made her suffer each day of her short life with him caring for her.
I don’t believe in capital punishment as his suffering would be over within minutes.
Is there any evidence to support this? Do countries with a death penalty have a lower violent crime / murder rate, perhaps?
EDIT OK so someone already made this point, should have read the whole thread.
and stuffing them in a tactical bag from a car-boot?
Of course I wouldn't but then I don't suppose the '100 innocents' killed are happy with that either, assuming, that is, that the death penalty works as deterrent in the first place.
The way I see it the issues are:
Do you think the death penalty works as a deterrent in order to reduce the number of innocent lives lost? If not then end of the argument.
If you do then do you you think that the number of lives saved by said deterrent is greater than the the number of innocent persons wrongly accused?
If not then the death penalty as a deterrent fails in it's mission to reduce the number of innocent lives lost and should therefore not be used. End of argument.
If you do think there is a net saving of innocent lives then it lends itself for consideration.
Of course there's another side to the death penalty and that's revenge but now we're going into a VERY non-PC area which a lot of people secretly harbour but don't often mention.
All I'm doing is mentioning this as a debate topic. It's up to the reader to decide on which side they stand. My feeling is a lot of people will think statement one applies. A lot more people are too squeamish to even think about it and the rest keep stumm for the risk of causing offence to the others.
No you can't tell... I mean unless you know what the figures would be if there was NO death penalty then you can't say that it fails. Heck who knows, maybe without the death penalty the figures would be twice what they are at the moment. My suspicion though is the death penalty is there in these places not as a deterrent but as a means of revenge. They say it's for deterrent but really it's to get their own back.
Just let prisoners sit on cycle trainers the whole day to produce electricity for part of the town, that way they give something back to sociëty.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
Although I've no problewm with capital punishment at all (and those who use the US as a reason not to do it, the actual nu.mbers executed are tiny, due to the tactics of appeals etc etc which can often take decades).
In the spirit of compromise as this isn't the BP, how would those who dislike CP feel about those who should be executed are housed in separate prisons - somewhere obscure, preferably inhospitable, cold etc (like Hull!) with basic food and accommodation - much like a Gulag. I'd put my CP opinions to one side if prison wasn't so comfortable............
The abuse and death of helpless children while on the “at risk register” is beginning to look like the US’ gun control blind spot. Every time there is outrage and it will never happen again - until the next time...
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So you think £40k a year would be saved by killing them.. It's the cost per cell space, the same cost applies who ever occupies it.
It wasn't much of a deterrent before the death penalty was abolished.
Capital punishment is worthless.
Its the very last link in a long chain and accomplishes nothing redeeming whatsoever.
Criminals should be put on ice indefinitely so that they can be studied and investigated so that society at large had some ability to mitigate their actions and make it less likely something similar will happen in the future.
Killing someone totally ends that possibility.
The costs involved in maintaining a prisoner are negligble for a society as wealthy as ours and is more likely to help safeguard other lives in the future. Weighed up against even a handful of lives that would be saved from studying criminals the sums of money are irrelevant.
Modern society has a requirement that its citizens operate under a vast array of laws that are enforced for the common good. Whilst its not ultimately responsible for the actions of individuals our society does play a formative role in allowing the conditions and attitudes that allow abhorent and anti-social activities to be perpetuated by members of that society.
Executing prisoners allows society to ignore and actively avoid the faults that exist within it which are potential motivators to crime.
Lastly our justice system is the product of human beings. Its impossible for the judiciary to ever be completely 100% accurate in their suppositions about any set of events after the fact. We recognise that . Verdicts are derived from proofs that are deliberately clarified as being “beyond reasonable doubt”. Precisely because our judiciary recognise the fact that it not infallable.
Therefor its unthinkable that youcould have something as final as the death penalty for any sentencing derived from a process that is recognised as not being guaranteed as 100% accurate. You would inevitable end up putting innocent people to death which in turn would undermine the authority of such a process in the eyes of society.
Killing criminals , abusing them , torturing them , treating them inhumanely only ever undermines society and makes it more likely that we’ll perpetuate an existence that makes abhorrent crime more likely to happen.
I fail to see any reason for bringing back the death penalty to our society.
The reason it was abolished over half a century ago is as valid today as it was then.
R
Last edited by ralphy; 13th November 2017 at 07:25.
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
I agree with this. Often capital punishment is a blessing for the worst in society.
I sat on a jury a few years ago. A high end league footballer was being tried for an assault off the pitch. A number of jurors were of the opinion that they couldn’t say he was guilty because ‘he’d never play again’.
Can you imagine if he was being tried for a crime where he could’ve received a death sentence? I think a lot of jurors would give a not guilty verdict just to absolve themselves of the responsibility of sending someone to their death.
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